997 gt3 or gt4
Discussion
isaldiri said:
Hold on, I know I seem to be always having a go at the gt4 but that's more as a counterpoint to the hagiographic comments about it from owners who might just be a tad biased (and understandably so). I am in not in any shape of form suggesting it's terrible or a piece of cack and I don't think people need to be quite that sensitive to perceived criticism of their car. The gt4 is a very good car for it's new price (ok ~75-80k options dependent). Porsche have not unexpectedly delivered very well on the design brief for the car ie to be a very capable car on track at it's price point.
The issue in this case it carries the 'GT' badge and in particular is being compared to the 7gt3. To me at least a GT car represents as Steve Rance says a car that offers something of the GT race car experience in a road legal form.
Don't worry, its fine. I enjoy the banter. Its a great car really with a very good rather than a special engine. Thats it really...The issue in this case it carries the 'GT' badge and in particular is being compared to the 7gt3. To me at least a GT car represents as Steve Rance says a car that offers something of the GT race car experience in a road legal form.
I have a manual GT3 coming and I'm keeping the GT4 so I'm one lucky b
d anyway. 
isaldiri said:
Hold on, I know I seem to be always having a go at the gt4 but that's more as a counterpoint to the hagiographic comments about it from owners who might just be a tad biased (and understandably so). I am in not in any shape of form suggesting it's terrible or a piece of cack and I don't think people need to be quite that sensitive to perceived criticism of their car. The gt4 is a very good car for it's new price (ok ~75-80k options dependent). Porsche have not unexpectedly delivered very well on the design brief for the car ie to be a very capable car on track at it's price point.
The issue in this case it carries the 'GT' badge and in particular is being compared to the 7gt3. To me at least a GT car represents as Steve Rance says a car that offers something of the GT race car experience in a road legal form.
Well said, Sir The issue in this case it carries the 'GT' badge and in particular is being compared to the 7gt3. To me at least a GT car represents as Steve Rance says a car that offers something of the GT race car experience in a road legal form.
I think you and I are on the same page.
It's probably worse being lumped with me when it comes to views on the GT4! 
Porsche911R said:
I find it odd Spyder owners love the Engine but GT3 people hate it if it's in a GT4 lol
I never thought of the GT4 as trying to hard, if it's amazing in the Spyder it's amazing in the GT4 !
D, honestly the engines just feel different - firstly the Spyder sounds epic ALL the time (& the GT4 simply doesn’t) and maybe that’s why people feel that engine suits the Spyder perfectly (plus it’s technical quality and power delivery obviously) The GT4 engine always feels like it’s weak point to me - I agree they are basically the same engine and as such what I’m saying sounds illogical, but in real life this is the case - Maybe it is just the sound that makes me feel this ; It screams at you positively in the Spyder and sometimes it sounds weak and whinny in the GT4 - however in certain conditions it’s a lovely note : as you know, I love both cars but if I could only keep one as a road car it would be the Spyder - sorry we’ll just have to agree to differ on this , which is fine. I never thought of the GT4 as trying to hard, if it's amazing in the Spyder it's amazing in the GT4 !
Porsche911R said:
The Spyder seems an older owner market on the whole for some reason, these people are not hooning about and love the engine and extra torque it offers, I doubt most have been over 6k lol and the investers still have not ran them in yet ! so stuck below 4k
.
David sometimes you don’t half talk b.
ks RSVP911 said:
Porsche911R said:
The Spyder seems an older owner market on the whole for some reason, these people are not hooning about and love the engine and extra torque it offers, I doubt most have been over 6k lol and the investers still have not ran them in yet ! so stuck below 4k
.
David sometimes you don’t half talk b.
ks Fokker said:
RSVP911 said:
David sometimes you don’t half talk bks
Richard, he's calling you an old git ks 
it was the mileage / Driving comment - I would bet good money on the average mileage per month in all Spyders is way higher than GT4’s - in truth it wasn’t even this - who cares FFS.
It’s just “stuff” spouted without any basis of fact
I'll just leave this here (copied and pasted word for word from Rennlist member Lapis)..
As I posted here recently, I just pre-traded my .1GT3 toward .2GT3 (March production), and picked up a new-to-me 981 Spyder to drive meanwhile (and maybe indefinitely, see below...)
Today I went for an epic drive through Ohio's Hocking Hills region on a route I've done many times before in the .1GT3 as recently as last week, and also in my former GT4, which I sold almost a year ago. I thought I'd share my impressions for everyone who, many of whom, I assume, may either have a 981 Spyder or GT4 and are considering to buy a GT3, or who may now have a GT3 and might consider getting a 981 Spyder or GT4 to compliment it.
Same course, same driver, different cars. Here goes.
First, a couple qualifications. The Spyder has LWB seats, and my GT3 and GT4 had sofas; certainly this influences perception. Also, the Spyder, unusually so, has brand new Pirelli Trofeo R tires (came that way), while my GT3 and GT4 had stock MPSC2 tires; certainly this also influences things, more than likely helping to improve the Spyder's handling vs. what it would have been on stock tires, bringing it closer to the wider-tired GT3 and GT4 with MPSC2's. Weather today was perfect... 70 degrees and sunny with a slight early fall chill in the air.
1. Of the 3 cars, Spyder sounds best... Chalk it up to the thin cloth top and open-air driving, but the sound of the engine revving from 4-7Krpm as you drive through the forest on twisty undulating roads is simply intoxicating, even with top up due to the uninsulated top on Spyder vs. regular Boxster, but truly epic with the top down. Lots more rasp and growl than in a closed (or even windows-down) GT4. GT3 sounds second best, especially it's more high-pitched tonal sound when it gets on high revs and its super-quick PDK shifts.
2. Manual rules for pure driving fun and involvement... When I took the course last week in the GT3 with PDK, I was thinking, "Damn, this is good. Am I going to miss this?" as I rapidly up and down-shifted around tight turns revving it out, white knuckled. But today, I savored the 6-speed short stick shift and easy clutch, which I never once missed or felt clumsy using. Did I shift as often as in the GT3? No. Spent most of the time in 3rd gear, occasionally unshifting to 4th on straights and 2nd on very tight turns. Was I slower? Who cares?! It was more fun and exciting.
3. For grip and ultimate speed, the GT3 still takes it, no contest... How could it be a contest. GT3 has far wider tires, more rear weight bias that helps dig in on corner exits, and way more power. Having said that, I smiled more while driving the Spyder today than the GT3 last week. But driving the GT3 fast is more exhausting because you're keenly aware of how fast you're going.
4. The Spyder feels faster than GT4, and regardless, is certainly more fun to drive off track than GT4... Spyder is objectively lighter than GT4, but probably not by enough to make an objective difference in speed. The operative word is FEELS faster. This is no doubt due to the sound with top down (or up) and the sense of connection to the outside in an open top car. One could argue that a Spyder is less practical than GT4. Probably true, but who's going to push either one hard in the rain or cold? About the only case I could make for a GT4 vs. a Spyder is for on-track, where GT4's better aero, bespoke suspension from GT3, and wider tires would likely improve it's handling and lap times, or if you're going to use it as a DD, in which case the GT4's hard top and hatchback trunk are more practical than Spyder.
5. Spyder suspension, which isn't adjustable, is Goldilocks perfect... Comfortable, compliant, yet firm and great when pushed hard. Why can't Porsche make suspension this good on all its cars? By comparison, GT4 seems firmer, even in normal suspension setting. GT3 firmer still. Also, GT4 has bespoke suspension (lifted directly from GT3 for front, and custom-designed for GT4 at rear) vs. Spyder, which does not (I supposed Spyder's suspension is essentially same as what you'd get on a 981 Boxster GTS with the "Sport" suspension option?). Despite this, I couldn't tell any difference in terms of lack of agility on the Spyder vs. the GT4 (at least based on my memory of the GT4). I felt the same confidence at high speeds in high corners and undulating roads.
6. When driven in normal mode gently, Spyder is a pussycat.... Compared to GT3, which I found hard to drive smoothly around town at slower speeds despite its PDK automatic, Spyder, like GT4, is quiet and smooth to drive around at pedestrian speeds or to cruise long distances on the highway. GT3 always feels a bit frenetic, even when you aren't trying to drive it that way.
7. The Trofeo R tires are fantastic, at least so far (new, warm weather, dry pavement)... Great grip and turn in. Soft ride. Not too loud. Would have to do side by side to be more precise, but they feel as good or better than the MPSC2's on the GT4 and GT3. If I had to guess, they are probably better than MPSC2 and helped to narrow the gap there'd otherwise be between the more narrow-tired Spyder and the GT4, which not only has wider tires but supposedly better suspension, too.
8. The LWB seats were great... I was afraid I'd find them uncomfortable after an extended drive, but no. Back feels perfectly fine, and felt comfortable the whole time in them, except that I had no room to adjust side to side (that's the point, I suppose) and they are more of hassle to get into and out of, but not too bad. I'm 5'8" and 240ls, so not so fit. Yet I still fit in these seats. Besides comfort, the seats definitely go lower than sofas and improve the sense of connection to car and road. Not harsh in any way, though.
9. Spyder (like GT4) feels a lot smaller when driving it than GT3... I suppose this is just confirmation of how 911 is bigger car than Boxster/Cayman, but yeah, when driving the GT3 you're much more aware of the larger size of the vehicle. I suppose this ads a bit to the feeling of solidity and luxury in GT3 vs. Spyder/GT4.
10. Spyder gets attention, in a good way. When I stopped at Ash Cave, several small children immediately surrounded the car and asked if they could take pictures. This didn't happen with the GT3, which tended to get more attention from older guys. Spyder looks rare and exotic. People don't know what it is (rear deck says PORSCHE Spyder, not Boxster). The fairings are unique to this model. And the top, when up, looks very unique too. By comparison, Cayman and GT3 look like hot-rodded versions of well-recognizable cars.
As I posted here recently, I just pre-traded my .1GT3 toward .2GT3 (March production), and picked up a new-to-me 981 Spyder to drive meanwhile (and maybe indefinitely, see below...)
Today I went for an epic drive through Ohio's Hocking Hills region on a route I've done many times before in the .1GT3 as recently as last week, and also in my former GT4, which I sold almost a year ago. I thought I'd share my impressions for everyone who, many of whom, I assume, may either have a 981 Spyder or GT4 and are considering to buy a GT3, or who may now have a GT3 and might consider getting a 981 Spyder or GT4 to compliment it.
Same course, same driver, different cars. Here goes.
First, a couple qualifications. The Spyder has LWB seats, and my GT3 and GT4 had sofas; certainly this influences perception. Also, the Spyder, unusually so, has brand new Pirelli Trofeo R tires (came that way), while my GT3 and GT4 had stock MPSC2 tires; certainly this also influences things, more than likely helping to improve the Spyder's handling vs. what it would have been on stock tires, bringing it closer to the wider-tired GT3 and GT4 with MPSC2's. Weather today was perfect... 70 degrees and sunny with a slight early fall chill in the air.
1. Of the 3 cars, Spyder sounds best... Chalk it up to the thin cloth top and open-air driving, but the sound of the engine revving from 4-7Krpm as you drive through the forest on twisty undulating roads is simply intoxicating, even with top up due to the uninsulated top on Spyder vs. regular Boxster, but truly epic with the top down. Lots more rasp and growl than in a closed (or even windows-down) GT4. GT3 sounds second best, especially it's more high-pitched tonal sound when it gets on high revs and its super-quick PDK shifts.
2. Manual rules for pure driving fun and involvement... When I took the course last week in the GT3 with PDK, I was thinking, "Damn, this is good. Am I going to miss this?" as I rapidly up and down-shifted around tight turns revving it out, white knuckled. But today, I savored the 6-speed short stick shift and easy clutch, which I never once missed or felt clumsy using. Did I shift as often as in the GT3? No. Spent most of the time in 3rd gear, occasionally unshifting to 4th on straights and 2nd on very tight turns. Was I slower? Who cares?! It was more fun and exciting.
3. For grip and ultimate speed, the GT3 still takes it, no contest... How could it be a contest. GT3 has far wider tires, more rear weight bias that helps dig in on corner exits, and way more power. Having said that, I smiled more while driving the Spyder today than the GT3 last week. But driving the GT3 fast is more exhausting because you're keenly aware of how fast you're going.
4. The Spyder feels faster than GT4, and regardless, is certainly more fun to drive off track than GT4... Spyder is objectively lighter than GT4, but probably not by enough to make an objective difference in speed. The operative word is FEELS faster. This is no doubt due to the sound with top down (or up) and the sense of connection to the outside in an open top car. One could argue that a Spyder is less practical than GT4. Probably true, but who's going to push either one hard in the rain or cold? About the only case I could make for a GT4 vs. a Spyder is for on-track, where GT4's better aero, bespoke suspension from GT3, and wider tires would likely improve it's handling and lap times, or if you're going to use it as a DD, in which case the GT4's hard top and hatchback trunk are more practical than Spyder.
5. Spyder suspension, which isn't adjustable, is Goldilocks perfect... Comfortable, compliant, yet firm and great when pushed hard. Why can't Porsche make suspension this good on all its cars? By comparison, GT4 seems firmer, even in normal suspension setting. GT3 firmer still. Also, GT4 has bespoke suspension (lifted directly from GT3 for front, and custom-designed for GT4 at rear) vs. Spyder, which does not (I supposed Spyder's suspension is essentially same as what you'd get on a 981 Boxster GTS with the "Sport" suspension option?). Despite this, I couldn't tell any difference in terms of lack of agility on the Spyder vs. the GT4 (at least based on my memory of the GT4). I felt the same confidence at high speeds in high corners and undulating roads.
6. When driven in normal mode gently, Spyder is a pussycat.... Compared to GT3, which I found hard to drive smoothly around town at slower speeds despite its PDK automatic, Spyder, like GT4, is quiet and smooth to drive around at pedestrian speeds or to cruise long distances on the highway. GT3 always feels a bit frenetic, even when you aren't trying to drive it that way.
7. The Trofeo R tires are fantastic, at least so far (new, warm weather, dry pavement)... Great grip and turn in. Soft ride. Not too loud. Would have to do side by side to be more precise, but they feel as good or better than the MPSC2's on the GT4 and GT3. If I had to guess, they are probably better than MPSC2 and helped to narrow the gap there'd otherwise be between the more narrow-tired Spyder and the GT4, which not only has wider tires but supposedly better suspension, too.
8. The LWB seats were great... I was afraid I'd find them uncomfortable after an extended drive, but no. Back feels perfectly fine, and felt comfortable the whole time in them, except that I had no room to adjust side to side (that's the point, I suppose) and they are more of hassle to get into and out of, but not too bad. I'm 5'8" and 240ls, so not so fit. Yet I still fit in these seats. Besides comfort, the seats definitely go lower than sofas and improve the sense of connection to car and road. Not harsh in any way, though.
9. Spyder (like GT4) feels a lot smaller when driving it than GT3... I suppose this is just confirmation of how 911 is bigger car than Boxster/Cayman, but yeah, when driving the GT3 you're much more aware of the larger size of the vehicle. I suppose this ads a bit to the feeling of solidity and luxury in GT3 vs. Spyder/GT4.
10. Spyder gets attention, in a good way. When I stopped at Ash Cave, several small children immediately surrounded the car and asked if they could take pictures. This didn't happen with the GT3, which tended to get more attention from older guys. Spyder looks rare and exotic. People don't know what it is (rear deck says PORSCHE Spyder, not Boxster). The fairings are unique to this model. And the top, when up, looks very unique too. By comparison, Cayman and GT3 look like hot-rodded versions of well-recognizable cars.
RSVP911 said:
D, honestly the engines just feel different - firstly the Spyder sounds epic ALL the time (& the GT4 simply doesn’t) and maybe that’s why people feel that engine suits the Spyder perfectly (plus it’s technical quality and power delivery obviously) The GT4 engine always feels like it’s weak point to me - I agree they are basically the same engine and as such what I’m saying sounds illogical, but in real life this is the case - Maybe it is just the sound that makes me feel this ; It screams at you positively in the Spyder and sometimes it sounds weak and whinny in the GT4 - however in certain conditions it’s a lovely note : as you know, I love both cars but if I could only keep one as a road car it would be the Spyder - sorry we’ll just have to agree to differ on this , which is fine.
I cannot get over the weak and whinny comments with the GT4 engine, it's f**king loud and sounds amazing, the Spyder sounds false and has that stupid over run.I am just not into the GTS sort of farts all new cars have with fake overrun , the GT4 sounds honest and is louder than the Spyder on wot !
I think the same people who love the GTS and Spyder sounds have stock geo's :-p
isaldiri said:
Porsche911R said:
Funnily enough, these people probably have driven the gt4 more than yourself over the course of their ownership. That qualifies more as being an enthuasiast then putting some extra parts or messing with a geo just to prove that you are 'an enthusiast'. And you're also primarily interested in the free car aspect of things so I wouldn't throw stones in a glasshouse if I were you....
GT3, maximum torque 300lbft at 5500. Max rpm 8400
so you have done the hard work for me proving GT4 wins for torque lower down which is what 90% people want, inc Porsche if you look a the new GT3 engine. Torque wins races but more so torque fires you out of B road bends at realistic revs. again I DO STRESS how the fPorsche911R said:
the 3.8 is a quality engine, the gearing saps the car not the engine and is the GT4 down side.
It's a great engine the 3.8 the GT4 works better than any model of GT3 on the road
GT4, maximum torque 309lbft at 4750. Max rpm 7800It's a great engine the 3.8 the GT4 works better than any model of GT3 on the road
GT3, maximum torque 300lbft at 5500. Max rpm 8400
k do people get to WOT and 8.5k in 3rd gear In a GT3 on UK B roads ?I am not sure many people have done more miles than me I am on 6.5k but I do about that in each car, I cannot be in them all lol
I changed the geo as I thought it was shocking bad standard lol I think cars which are stock in that dept are very lacking and maybe why some people sell up, not knowing how good it can be, it transformed mine, I was going to sell up after 6 months.
It's does not prove that you are 'an enthusiast' but it does prove that you care about how they drive which then transends into being an "enthusiast"
yes I like a free car but my GT4 is not free , I'll lost money on mine by quite a big margin if I swap it, so again a daft point.
yes at Spa I'll take a race engine, but I have only done 150 miles at Spa and I have done 1 million road miles :-) so I tend to sway towards how the cars work for the winding UK B roads with all love to hunt out.
Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 19th October 15:21
Porsche911R said:
RSVP911 said:
D, honestly the engines just feel different - firstly the Spyder sounds epic ALL the time (& the GT4 simply doesn’t) and maybe that’s why people feel that engine suits the Spyder perfectly (plus it’s technical quality and power delivery obviously) The GT4 engine always feels like it’s weak point to me - I agree they are basically the same engine and as such what I’m saying sounds illogical, but in real life this is the case - Maybe it is just the sound that makes me feel this ; It screams at you positively in the Spyder and sometimes it sounds weak and whinny in the GT4 - however in certain conditions it’s a lovely note : as you know, I love both cars but if I could only keep one as a road car it would be the Spyder - sorry we’ll just have to agree to differ on this , which is fine.
I cannot get over the weak and whinny comments with the GT4 engine, it's f**king loud and sounds amazing, the Spyder sounds false and has that stupid over run.I am just not into the GTS sort of farts all new cars have with fake overrun , the GT4 sounds honest and is louder than the Spyder on wot !
I think the same people who love the GTS and Spyder sounds have stock geo's :-p
I do however agree with your comment on the synthetic nature of modern exhaust systems which is why I never turn the PSE on in the Spyder - don’t need to it’s a sweet sounding package without.
Also you must remember I have no axe to grind here as I’m fortunate enough to own both and as such, I’m agnostic, I’m Geneva In this respect ; I just tell it as I see it to genuinely give people a balanced view from someone without a vested interest in talking up either car.
They are both great - I just prefer the Spyder for the all round package if you want a road biased car - that’s all
RSVP911 said:
OK , whatever : I obviously haven’t got a clue and don’t know what I’m talkin about; surely owning and extensively driving some of Porsches’ finest over the years - some of it must have rubbed off , but fair enough.
I do however agree with your comment on the synthetic nature of modern exhaust systems which is why I never turn the PSE on in the Spyder - don’t need to it’s a sweet sounding package without.
Also you must remember I have no axe to grind here as I’m fortunate enough to own both and as such, I’m agnostic, I’m Geneva In this respect ; I just tell it as I see it to genuinely give people a balanced view from someone without a vested interest in talking up either car.
They are both great - I just prefer the Spyder for the all round package if you want a road biased car - that’s all
I like to hear people views, it was mainly aimed at the group of people disliking the GT4 engine noise, my GT4 out crys my past GT3's, why do people buy Sharkwerks bypass pipes for GT3's then say the GT4 sounds weedy ?I do however agree with your comment on the synthetic nature of modern exhaust systems which is why I never turn the PSE on in the Spyder - don’t need to it’s a sweet sounding package without.
Also you must remember I have no axe to grind here as I’m fortunate enough to own both and as such, I’m agnostic, I’m Geneva In this respect ; I just tell it as I see it to genuinely give people a balanced view from someone without a vested interest in talking up either car.
They are both great - I just prefer the Spyder for the all round package if you want a road biased car - that’s all
you don't need a GT4 any louder. try taking out the top foam carpet if you want your ears to bleed.
you also get the new breed who want over run on EVERY gear change like the F types or sadly the 981 GTS cars.
I have always said the 981 Spyder suits more people than a GT4 would, does not make it a better car mind you.
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