Where are all the 997.1 GT3s

[rrroro]

Devil.Z said:

PRO 5T said:

I see a black comfort is coming soon on collecting cars.

I've had a look at this - it would need to end cheap for it to be worth it as it's a highish mileage comfort spec, all the panels are significantly scratched and there's a fair amount of rust underside

Sounds like a nice driver to me. I haven't seen the car, but depending on what's wrong with the underside, might only be 1 or 2k to sort. How bad are the scratches, are they through the lacquer or will a detail fix it?

[Redline88]

rrroro said:

Devil.Z said:

PRO 5T said:

I see a black comfort is coming soon on collecting cars.

I've had a look at this - it would need to end cheap for it to be worth it as it's a highish mileage comfort spec, all the panels are significantly scratched and there's a fair amount of rust underside

Sounds like a nice driver to me. I haven't seen the car, but depending on what's wrong with the underside, might only be 1 or 2k to sort. How bad are the scratches, are they through the lacquer or will a detail fix it?

Looks to have had some unusual places (for a GT3) servicing it over the years as well

[Redline88]

Looking at the list of advisories made after the last service, it looks like this could cost a fair bit to get sorted. Anybody a rough idea what sorting that list would add up to?

[Digga]

Redline88 said:

Looking at the list of advisories made after the last service, it looks like this could cost a fair bit to get sorted. Anybody a rough idea what sorting that list would add up to?

My concern would be what happed to the engine when the coolant dumped? You can be lucky, like the maniac in the grey & red 997.2 GT3 RS at DN Ring track day in May ‘22.

FFS if anyone is running a Mezger without the coolant hoses either pinned or welded you need your head examined. Not least for other driver’s safety.

Brake & coolant hoses, I’d guess between £1k to £2k perhaps. Then there’s the shock and rest of the suspension which is anyone’s guess, but easily £2k more.

[PRO 5T]

Just my 10p worth but anyone who buys a 15 to 20 year old GT3 needs a couple of grand at least in the war chest for the first few months.

I mean a new set of tyres is a grand.

Speak to the experts and the coolant pipes aren’t the problem the internet makes them out to be. Nice as a piece of mind to have them done if the engine is out but Manthey don’t bother with them-if one lets go they simply re-bond it.

[Redline88]

True but I’d guess that’s probably closer to an £8k bill to get that stuff above all fully sorted? Could be way off the mark though!

[Digga]

PRO 5T said:

Just my 10p worth but anyone who buys a 15 to 20 year old GT3 needs a couple of grand at least in the war chest for the first few months.

I mean a new set of tyres is a grand.

Speak to the experts and the coolant pipes aren’t the problem the internet makes them out to be. Nice as a piece of mind to have them done if the engine is out but Manthey don’t bother with them-if one lets go they simply re-bond it.

Sorry, but that's bks. Tell that to the cars following down the track.







What actually happens on Mezger coolant hoses is that they exhibit zero signs of a leak when they deteriorate until/unless, they are at high temperatures and engine RPM. Like on a track. The resultant leak can be relatively benign, but is very often catastrophic.

[PRO 5T]

Digga said:

Sorry, but that's bks.

It isn’t. Manthey don’t change the way the hoses are attached even when one has let go.

[Digga]

PRO 5T said:

Digga said:

Sorry, but that's bks.

It isn’t. Manthey don’t change the way the hoses are attached even when one has let go.

Porsche never recalled the cars or issues any remedial advice or service schedule when they knew the problem existsed. Doesn't mean it's right.

Manthey are now, defacto, OEM. They will merely follow factory advice.

If you use them on track it's like picking up after your dog. Sure you are unlikely to step in it, because you know it's there, but other people might.

Personally, I'd not want this on my conscience: https://www.motor1.com/news/538976/nurburgring-cra...

Lots of info on coolant on Rennlist.

The why: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/1271...

The how: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/1261...

[rrroro]

Digga said:

PRO 5T said:

Digga said:

Sorry, but that's bks.

It isn’t. Manthey don’t change the way the hoses are attached even when one has let go.

Porsche never recalled the cars or issues any remedial advice or service schedule when they knew the problem existsed. Doesn't mean it's right.

Manthey are now, defacto, OEM. They will merely follow factory advice.

If you use them on track it's like picking up after your dog. Sure you are unlikely to step in it, because you know it's there, but other people might.

Personally, I'd not want this on my conscience: https://www.motor1.com/news/538976/nurburgring-cra...

Lots of info on coolant on Rennlist.

The why: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/1271...

The how: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/1261...

Spot on, Digga, I was going to reply with very similar points. Manthey is now (fully or partly) owned by Porsche, and Porsche are yet to admit there is a problem with the coolant pipes, else they risk liability for mishaps that have taken place. It's an area that's ripe for upgrading if you're intending to stretch the engine regularly. All 996/997 Mezgers are affected, I'm aware personally of a 997.1 Turbo that had the pipes pinned after letting go (on road), as well as a 996 GT3 that let go on a trackday at the 'ring a few years ago. Why anyone would want to simply replicate the factory job, which is a proven failure point, rather than put a permanent fix in place, is beyond me

[Digga]

At DN in May '22, we were staying at the Dorint, along with a lot of others on the track day. There was alovely Lotus Exige, in grey, with red wheels (he;s a PH'er) and the evening after the track day, we were looking at it and wondering what the mist was covering it.

It was his mate's (also grey & red) 997.2 GT3 RS, which had let the coolant hoses go, on the way down into Foxhole (which, for those who do not know, is very fast downhill at over 100mph, into two of the trickiest corners on the circuit) while he was following, He thought it was tree pollen at first - it did look like that on the car too - but his mate was quick enough to see engine light and pulled the car over at marshal post at Adenaur Forst.

Fortunately the leak was small enough that not only his mate didn't skid, but there was not even any need to clear up.

Any car can go wrong. I came across regularly spaced oil droplets running all the way up from Bergwerk to Hohe Acht, in the rain, last October. I did not see them until the car slid where it hadn't before and then noticed them, every few yards, spreading out into the rain on the track. There was a 992 GT2 RS MR that hit the barriers the other year, after having a brake service at, you know where on Meuspath industrial estate...

[ChrisW.]

I spun out at Pouhon (Spa) following a GT3 that dumped its coolant ... the instructor who was sitting next to me said "didn't you see it ?"

Clearly it was something that he was used to doing ....

The videos are horrendous M. ... my racing Cayman S had the hoses secured ... what do Porsche know that we didn't ?

Edited by ChrisW. on Tuesday 13th February 14:27

[s_mcneil]

My previous 996.2GT3 coolant lines let go coming into the Döttinger Höhe on a 2014 DN day, luckily no damage to itself or others. Towed to Manthey who just re-glued even after asking about the pin/weld, was kind of brushed off by them. It then had all pipes welded as part of preventative maintenance back in the UK. My subsequent 997 had all pipes welded in 2021.
If they do let go, and all Mezger engines are getting on now, the minimum damage it will do is ruin your day/trip/wallet etc, examples given already of the worst...

[LemonTart]

Possibly a daft question but how different do they look when pinned or welded? How would you tell if they have been done before?

Thanks

[Digga]

LemonTart said:

Possibly a daft question but how different do they look when pinned or welded? How would you tell if they have been done before?

Thanks

100% yes to both. Follow some of the Rennlist links for the 'how to' pictures.

It's not cheap, so if there's no record of it in the list of receipts, it's probably been left. Unless you find an OPC bill for having all hoses re-glued.

The other thing on the cars is the plastic manifold on the heater matrix which can and does deteriorate and fail.

Brake lines, as mentioned in the car in question further back up the thread, are also getting old on any 997 now and need close inspection.

[Devil.Z]

Redline88 said:

True but I’d guess that’s probably closer to an £8k bill to get that stuff above all fully sorted? Could be way off the mark though!

I think it'll work out more than that - at least that's what my Indi suggests. It's at least an engine out job and he thinks that it'll need a full reconditioning style service which will bring out a lot of corroded bolts.

The scratches won't be fixed with a detail, so to get it "presentable" it'll need a respray too which is not a cheap prospect - although not required if you're not fussy about the exterior condition

[rrroro]

Devil.Z said:

Redline88 said:

True but I’d guess that’s probably closer to an £8k bill to get that stuff above all fully sorted? Could be way off the mark though!

I think it'll work out more than that - at least that's what my Indi suggests. It's at least an engine out job and he thinks that it'll need a full reconditioning style service which will bring out a lot of corroded bolts.

The scratches won't be fixed with a detail, so to get it "presentable" it'll need a respray too which is not a cheap prospect - although not required if you're not fussy about the exterior condition

It's good that you went and viewed that car. I just found it on CC coming soon and am finding it difficult to discern from the pictures, whether its a reflection I'm looking at or a scratch (other than the usual chips around the front of the car). It has a sunroof which you don't see very often, and there's something going on with the exhaust, the tips look like they stick out a bit too much from some angles. Mileage isn't that high for the age @ just over 59k, it's 16 years old

[Redline88]

rrroro said:

Devil.Z said:

Redline88 said:

True but I’d guess that’s probably closer to an £8k bill to get that stuff above all fully sorted? Could be way off the mark though!

I think it'll work out more than that - at least that's what my Indi suggests. It's at least an engine out job and he thinks that it'll need a full reconditioning style service which will bring out a lot of corroded bolts.

The scratches won't be fixed with a detail, so to get it "presentable" it'll need a respray too which is not a cheap prospect - although not required if you're not fussy about the exterior condition

It's good that you went and viewed that car. I just found it on CC coming soon and am finding it difficult to discern from the pictures, whether its a reflection I'm looking at or a scratch (other than the usual chips around the front of the car). It has a sunroof which you don't see very often, and there's something going on with the exhaust, the tips look like they stick out a bit too much from some angles. Mileage isn't that high for the age @ just over 59k, it's 16 years old

The service history mentions excessive scratches all over the car which is a bit strange. Doesn’t look obvious from the pictures.

[Digga]

Redline88 said:

The service history mentions excessive scratches all over the car which is a bit strange. Doesn’t look obvious from the pictures.

To be fair, that’s possibly just the seller being very honest so as not to get knocked down or sucker punched on the sale.

[Redline88]

The advert doesn’t mention it, it’s in the service reports from the garages that have done the recent services. So a bit strange to make that comment unless it’s really bad.