997 GT3 Gen1 clubsport

[Steve Rance]

CK_N4S said:

Congrats on the car Steve

I'm sure you will come to enjoy it in time when you start sorting the small stuff.

I have not taken the greatest of steps in modifying mine - but some have been well chosen.

I have mine kept at the Nürburgring, and seen after by Tom Schirmer (Who most of you will probably know for his BMW work)

Currently I'm running endlass pads on the OEM discs by Toms recommendation. Can't tell you much about Wear on them, as I'm still on my first set (which has done more than 100 laps of the Ring this year)

It was fitted with a HR 997 cup racing suspension setup when I bought it - courtesy of the previous owner from Sweden and his racing team running in the Swedish Carrera Cup with another 997 Cup car. This setup was not road legal in Germany and was changed for a full Nitron adjustable coilover suspension with external reservoirs for the front dampers. The car was subsequently corner weighted and a full Geo was done for the Ring (and then raised by about 5 mm as the car was scraping quite a lot on the Ring )

I'm sure the rear antiroll bar has been changed also, as I have never had any mentionable problems with understeer.

My thoughts on the next upgrades have been centered around weight saving by an Akrapovic exhaust and a light weight battery.

Looking forward to reading your Progress on the car and sharing experiences.

Mine is a keeper - and I wouldnt even change it for a 4.0 for fear of ruining my economy.

CK

Thank you for sharing details of your car with us. It sounds interesting and well judged for the ring. Thinking about the issues that I am looking to address it struck me that the standard car with just a passive set up will be a lovely option for the ring due to the fast flowing nature. Proportionately, there are not that many big and medium stops where a big trail is needed so bias and diff reliance is not as critical as it would be on a normal give and take circuit. Since these cars spend so much of their time at the ring during development, I can see why they have evolved in this way.

[Steve Rance]

Does anybody know if the ABD control unit is separate from the ABS unit on these cars?

[Steve Rance]

Bugger. Thats the last thing that I want. If i'm going to go down the 996 abs route than a motorsport unit would be the route that I would take. But I'll only hybrid the car as a last resort. I may have to live with the moving bias thing and just learn how to make it work for me. The Beefy diff may help a lot.

Haven't picked the car up yet. Waiting for the V5 to come back - private plate retention.

Out of interest, how did you manage the brakes on your mad 996?

[Steve Rance]

And a belated Merry Christmas to you too Old Chap!

Thank you for taking the trouble yo share that information. Very useful. It's looking increasingly likely that - within the scope of the project brief - It will be easier to develop a strategy and driving style to make the best of the existing system.

Interesting that you have the 997 system on your car. Presumably you have the adjustable bias system on the dash?

[Steve Rance]

The aim is basically to unlock as much of the true dynamic potential of the car as possible with the minimum of modifications. It's looking like A stronger diff (which will want doing anyway), cup front discs and some passive. I'll drive around the moving bias. These mods will make it very easy to convert the car back to bog standard at any time.

[Steve Rance]

I think that you have taken this a little out of context Henry. The engine, gearbox and chassis platforms are brilliant. It's just a case of working out what can be done simply to make the package better. If the abs bias can't be changed simply, it can't be changed. Any disadvantage can generally be turned into an advantage. If the abs bias is more rearward on initial braking there is more scope for front camber. Either way, these issues are not major stumbling blocks, they just make my world a little less ideal. As Neil says, it's just that I/we are sharing our thought processes on an open forum.

[Steve Rance]

fioran0 said:

Steve
I have all the tech info for all the ABS (and thus PSM,TC etc etc) on all the 996/997/CGT street cars. I will email you the summary of what's on the 997.1GT3, what the system does, parameters etc etc.
I'm not for getting in to it on a public board and the thread will turn into a clu$terf&c& if I do.

Neil. Much appreciated. look forward to studying it.

[Steve Rance]

Richie200 said:

Hi Steve, I'm still awaiting the answer regarding the brake set-up on my car (x-mas break getting in the way of things) but here are a few pictures I took the other day of the BMC, ABS unit and the front & rear brake set-up. I was surprised to find a small run of Braided steel brake lines between the BMC and ABS unit. Also the cable loom going into the ABS unit also looks a little over exposed to me (maybe an indication of some splicing on wires). It would be great if anyone has any pictures of the stock set-up so that a comparison can be made. As soon as I know anymore I'll update.

Richard. Thank you. From reading Neil's summary of the ABS function, I doubt that the braking system has been much modified - unless you have an adjustable brake bias on the dash which I doubt?

[Steve Rance]

So here is the car. Very nice example.

[Steve Rance]

Thanks Guys. I'll get all of the oils changed straight away then the first job will be the diff.

[Steve Rance]

Just seen this post. Apologies for the (very) late reply. Nope, not mine. Still have it. Planning on starting the project over the winter now that my 964 is finished. This is the project that I have been most looking forward to. pretty much clear on what's to be done - which will be the absolute minimum in terms of changing the original spec and everything must be purely bolt on.

[Steve Rance]

As per the 964 really. Road and track. I always prefer a sharp set up on the road. It makes for an involving drive at all speeds. Set ups that are set to maximum road performance tend to be very uninvolving at lower/safe speeds.

[Steve Rance]

v8ksn said:

Very interesting, I'm finding that my 997.1 GT3 is a little too focussed on track work and it makes for a difficult drive at normal road speeds. I'm planning on 'starting from scratch' with the geo and then going from there.

Looking forward to hearing more updates

If you have a standard 'the customer is an idiot' set up, I can well believe that it's pretty awful everywhere. A decent set up will transform it

[Steve Rance]

With my 964 finished and exactly as I would like it I'm turning attention to my 997. I took it for a long drive yesterday to get a feel for it and to work out where I'd like the car to be given my driving preferences. Jumped into the it after spending much of my time driving the 964 or a 997 cup. The things that struck me about the car were
1. The steering feel is exceptional - better in feel than both the 964 and the cup. Nice surprise
2. The engine is a peach. I prefer the 3.6 screamer to the 3.8.
3. The EBD and PASM filter a considerable amount of feel from the driving experience.
4. The stock geo is horrible
5. The aircon didn't work - doh
6. Nice to jump into a 997 without a sequential - didn't expect that.
All in all, very impressed. I have a pretty clear picture about where I am going to go with the car. The most critical upgrade will be the diff mechanism and the pre load set up. Next will be the damping control. After the first trail (horrible) it was obvious that this was an essential modification to get right. This is a real conundrum. I don't want to fit passive unless I really have to. I may look at a software upgrade if there is a bespoke option - although I suspect that possible will be the only real solution. Finally, I will fit an Alcon front disc upgradeand cup removable steering wheel for even more feedback. A trip to Parr for the set up - they are particularly good at translating my requirements into a geo pretty much first off. There will be the obligatory Cup 2 fittment then I'll see where we are at the end of it.

I'm hoping for something similar in dynamics to the 997cup. We will wait and see!

It was interesting comparing the car to the GT4 which I recently drove at Spa. I won't go into the ins and outs of it because this forum is no longer as welcoming as it once was. All I will say is that I preferred the 997.

Edited by Steve Rance on Sunday 24th July 09:28

Edited by Steve Rance on Sunday 24th July 09:31

[Steve Rance]

Porsche911R said:

I look forward to the project, I thought about selling the GT4 and doing a GT3 project.
PASM would be 2nd to go after fitting the short final drive, better diff and rs flywheel 1st.
Then as you say disk, pads, geo, monoball rear toe links and prob engine mounts.

No idea why people in the UK run stock cars, to many down sides.

I just don't fancy the risk of the project if I did not like the end result.

I get that. The platform is good enough to take in basically any direction that you want. As long as you dial a balance into the set up you will be fine. Also I understand how you feel about gearing so the final drive option will make a big difference. To be honest, the standard flywheel is pretty light so I'd leave that upgrade until the clutch needed replacing but it could also be done when at the same time as the diff.

[Steve Rance]

Cunno said:

Brake wise you can go 380 front and 360mm rears, nice upgrade, but the big pain in the braking system is the abs unit, and the cost of replacing that is mental.

Suspension you could try this, Jackwood has it on his 997 GTS, when I chatted to him at Oulton I could work out if he liked it or not?

http://www.tpcracing.com/dsc.html

Personally I got rid and went with Moton club sport 2 ways, I'd have a look at these boys the set up gets good reviews in the states and gives a lot more compliance.
http://www.exe-tc.co.uk/

Diff went with GT guard plates. And 40/60 ramp angles,.

Are you trying to make a road or track car, I assume road with your other toys?

Ha. Yep, road only. The cup is more track practicle. Your diff suggestion is pretty much exactly where I'm going - guards/cup with a fair bit of preload. Again, the pasm upgrade - pretty much spot on. The Parr chaps offer the same system I think (?). Shall call them shortly to discuss. My preference on passive is JRZ - mainly because I have a lot of experience with them but Moton are right up there also. I can live with the ABS system but not the EBD. Basically it intervenes as a fail safe once the diff starts to wear. My theory is to fit a strong and effective diff set up which should prevent the EBD sensors from engaging giving the analogue driving experience that I'm looking for.

Edited by Steve Rance on Sunday 24th July 11:17

[Steve Rance]

wtdoom said:

Mr Rance , I had JRZ on my 997.1 . It absolutely transformed the car , parr did the work . It's still the car I miss the most .
Mr Rance I'm still running around in the badlands . Neil tells me the brumos will be ready sioon , dreadnought engine and new ratios set up for normal tracks not geared for towing the space shuttle Columbia into outer space .
Could you give the old girl a shakedown/ thrashing please when your schedule allows it ?

Would be delighted my dear old thing. Pop me a mail and we can sort something out.

[Steve Rance]

Driving to Silverstone tonight at 1900 gmt. Will be travelling for 1.5 hours. Can speak then if convenient?

[Steve Rance]

wtdoom said:

Sorry mr Rance , just managed to log in . Those wacky Iraqis keeping me busy

Don't worry Old Chap. Understood