Which 996 would you choose?
Discussion
The more I look at the 996 the more confused I become. Please help me make the right decision!
I have looked at a 40,000 mile car with full history and is mint. £24,000
I have seen a 100,000 mile car that has full service history and dealer fit new engine and gearbox halfway through it's life. It also has a long list of other things replaced recently. £13,000
From my other thread I take the advice that I need to have a budget of 2k a year regular maintenance and be prepared for an engine rebuild circa 10k for any 996.
Since both cars are old and would both probably benefit from suspension refresh and all the other things old cars require, is the cheaper car a better buy or will it always be worth 10k less than the more expensive car? In my ownership I would imagine both would need major work at some point.
My original budget was up to £25,000 and I am prepared for the on going costs. I want a car to use whenever I want and intend to keep it for 5+ years. I am happy to treat it as a hobby in terms of refreshing suspension etc and treat it as a rolling restoration.
So which car and why?
I have looked at a 40,000 mile car with full history and is mint. £24,000
I have seen a 100,000 mile car that has full service history and dealer fit new engine and gearbox halfway through it's life. It also has a long list of other things replaced recently. £13,000
From my other thread I take the advice that I need to have a budget of 2k a year regular maintenance and be prepared for an engine rebuild circa 10k for any 996.
Since both cars are old and would both probably benefit from suspension refresh and all the other things old cars require, is the cheaper car a better buy or will it always be worth 10k less than the more expensive car? In my ownership I would imagine both would need major work at some point.
My original budget was up to £25,000 and I am prepared for the on going costs. I want a car to use whenever I want and intend to keep it for 5+ years. I am happy to treat it as a hobby in terms of refreshing suspension etc and treat it as a rolling restoration.
So which car and why?
I was in a similar position to you and was looking at good dealer cars at mid 20s and private sales > 10.
In the end went for a private sale (2003 C2 manual, 81k miles) without inspection. It turns out to be a good car at the right price, though I’d probably get an inspection next time.
My logic was the dealer cars at 8-10k more, albeit with a bit of warranty, could still need money spent on them so I’d rather have the money in the bank.
I did consider an older mint 30k miler at £22k which someone else on here bought but still more than 6k than I eventually paid. Thats a lot of maintenance budget!
Ian
In the end went for a private sale (2003 C2 manual, 81k miles) without inspection. It turns out to be a good car at the right price, though I’d probably get an inspection next time.
My logic was the dealer cars at 8-10k more, albeit with a bit of warranty, could still need money spent on them so I’d rather have the money in the bank.
I did consider an older mint 30k miler at £22k which someone else on here bought but still more than 6k than I eventually paid. Thats a lot of maintenance budget!
Ian
Hi roger
As you are finding in your 996 search, the price variance from the bottom to the top of the market is very broad at the moment. I’d suggest £13k is probably the cheapest 996 you’d want to buy, right up to £120k for the rare GT2, and everything in between.
I suspect the car with 40k miles has a premium for being a low mileage car. Most 996 have been used and enjoyed, so will be higher mileage than this. However, as you state, mileage is less important than condition and service history, and it can be better to buy a higher mileage car that has been cherished and had lots of money spent on it.
Values also vary significantly based on model and spec, and there is a lot of personal preference. I’ll share a few examples....
1. Gearboxes
Values of tiptronic auto box tend to be cheaper than manuals, as the triptronic was old school tech and sluggish compared to modern PDK. I owned a basic 996 Carrera triptronic briefly and found it quite frustrating, not very responsible, slow performance and mpg suffered. However some owners of the 996 turbo actually prefer the box as it suits more powerful engine.
2. Body style
Cabriolets and targas tend to be cheaper than coupe models, and some purists will even seek a non-sunroof couple as the most focused 911. I had a 996 targa, which was nice in sunny days but it squeaked and rattled when closed and drove me crazy! So I sold it.
3. Body shape
Then there is narrow bodied and wide bodied models. The Carrera 4S and the Turbo are the wide bodied models, and are seen as more desirable and values are higher these days.
4. Engine
Engines range from the ‘early’ 3.4, which then progressed to 3.6. The 3.4 is thought to be more robust than the 3.6 which can suffer bore scoring and the IMS baring failure, both of which are worth getting inspected before purchase. The only exception is the turbo and gt3, which have a different 3.6 engine, offered known as the ‘mezger’ engine which originates from Porsche motorsport. It is thought to be bullet proof.
I own a 996 GT3 now and the engine is glorious. It has quite a different sound to the standard 996 3.6 engine, more mechanical and raw.
Which to buy....
Whatever you choose, I’d recommend you buy based on history and work completed, rather than age and mileage. I always like a ring binder of invoices! I’d suggest having an inspection done by a Porsche specialist, and either check the IMS has been done recently or budget £1K to get it done. As other people have suggested, budget £2k a year for servicing.
As I said, it really comes down to personal preference of all the model and spec choices available. If I was spending up to £25k, I would either have;
1. An early 3.4 Carrera, manual, coupe, non sunroof for £18k, and spend £7k on updating suspension, bushes, alloys, and a more sporty exhaust. Why? It’s the original, purusit, basic model and it will always be special for that reason. And lots of fun.
2. A Carrera 4S, coupe, manual for £25k and keep it standard. Why? I love the wide body looks with the rear reflector strip, and its half the price of the turbo.
Hope that’s some help and happy car buying.
Mat
As you are finding in your 996 search, the price variance from the bottom to the top of the market is very broad at the moment. I’d suggest £13k is probably the cheapest 996 you’d want to buy, right up to £120k for the rare GT2, and everything in between.
I suspect the car with 40k miles has a premium for being a low mileage car. Most 996 have been used and enjoyed, so will be higher mileage than this. However, as you state, mileage is less important than condition and service history, and it can be better to buy a higher mileage car that has been cherished and had lots of money spent on it.
Values also vary significantly based on model and spec, and there is a lot of personal preference. I’ll share a few examples....
1. Gearboxes
Values of tiptronic auto box tend to be cheaper than manuals, as the triptronic was old school tech and sluggish compared to modern PDK. I owned a basic 996 Carrera triptronic briefly and found it quite frustrating, not very responsible, slow performance and mpg suffered. However some owners of the 996 turbo actually prefer the box as it suits more powerful engine.
2. Body style
Cabriolets and targas tend to be cheaper than coupe models, and some purists will even seek a non-sunroof couple as the most focused 911. I had a 996 targa, which was nice in sunny days but it squeaked and rattled when closed and drove me crazy! So I sold it.
3. Body shape
Then there is narrow bodied and wide bodied models. The Carrera 4S and the Turbo are the wide bodied models, and are seen as more desirable and values are higher these days.
4. Engine
Engines range from the ‘early’ 3.4, which then progressed to 3.6. The 3.4 is thought to be more robust than the 3.6 which can suffer bore scoring and the IMS baring failure, both of which are worth getting inspected before purchase. The only exception is the turbo and gt3, which have a different 3.6 engine, offered known as the ‘mezger’ engine which originates from Porsche motorsport. It is thought to be bullet proof.
I own a 996 GT3 now and the engine is glorious. It has quite a different sound to the standard 996 3.6 engine, more mechanical and raw.
Which to buy....
Whatever you choose, I’d recommend you buy based on history and work completed, rather than age and mileage. I always like a ring binder of invoices! I’d suggest having an inspection done by a Porsche specialist, and either check the IMS has been done recently or budget £1K to get it done. As other people have suggested, budget £2k a year for servicing.
As I said, it really comes down to personal preference of all the model and spec choices available. If I was spending up to £25k, I would either have;
1. An early 3.4 Carrera, manual, coupe, non sunroof for £18k, and spend £7k on updating suspension, bushes, alloys, and a more sporty exhaust. Why? It’s the original, purusit, basic model and it will always be special for that reason. And lots of fun.
2. A Carrera 4S, coupe, manual for £25k and keep it standard. Why? I love the wide body looks with the rear reflector strip, and its half the price of the turbo.
Hope that’s some help and happy car buying.
Mat
Edited by matfinch on Monday 2nd April 12:45
Paynewright said:
I was in a similar position to you and was looking at good dealer cars at mid 20s and private sales > 10.
In the end went for a private sale (2003 C2 manual, 81k miles) without inspection. It turns out to be a good car at the right price, though I’d probably get an inspection next time.
My logic was the dealer cars at 8-10k more, albeit with a bit of warranty, could still need money spent on them so I’d rather have the money in the bank.
I did consider an older mint 30k miler at £22k which someone else on here bought but still more than 6k than I eventually paid. Thats a lot of maintenance budget!
Ian
That person might’ve been me if the car you saw was for sale at Mortmers in Billingshurst. I’ve done about 700 miles and a couple of minor issues have occurred but the car is 17 years old and they are more age than mileage related so overall I’m happy with my purchase. In the end went for a private sale (2003 C2 manual, 81k miles) without inspection. It turns out to be a good car at the right price, though I’d probably get an inspection next time.
My logic was the dealer cars at 8-10k more, albeit with a bit of warranty, could still need money spent on them so I’d rather have the money in the bank.
I did consider an older mint 30k miler at £22k which someone else on here bought but still more than 6k than I eventually paid. Thats a lot of maintenance budget!
Ian
Smollet said:
That person might’ve been me if the car you saw was for sale at Mortmers in Billingshurst. I’ve done about 700 miles and a couple of minor issues have occurred but the car is 17 years old and they are more age than mileage related so overall I’m happy with my purchase.
Smollet,Yes its you & the Mortimer's car! I kept looking at it on line and it did look stunning.
Regards
Ian
Paynewright said:
Smollet said:
That person might’ve been me if the car you saw was for sale at Mortmers in Billingshurst. I’ve done about 700 miles and a couple of minor issues have occurred but the car is 17 years old and they are more age than mileage related so overall I’m happy with my purchase.
Smollet,Yes its you & the Mortimer's car! I kept looking at it on line and it did look stunning.
Regards
Ian
I took it to CenterGravity last week, and despite fining a minor coolant leak and a possible split in the PAS low pressure pipe ferrule, Chris described it as being stellar. I’m getting those issues addressed soon.
I'd suggest working out what your 'must haves' are and then thinking about what your motivations for buying are. First and foremost look for a genuine enthusiast owned car if which nothing has ever been skimped on. If you want to really use it then maybe go for an enthusiast owned, somewhat higher mileage car. If it is an investment and a piece of garage jewellery then go for a minty fresh low mileage car, just don't put any miles on it!
In practice, putting a very low mileage garage queen into regular service may not prove much more reliable than a higher mileage but pampered car and net net it will cost you a great deal more!
In practice, putting a very low mileage garage queen into regular service may not prove much more reliable than a higher mileage but pampered car and net net it will cost you a great deal more!
It's not an investment and will be driven 3-5000 miles a year between March and November including an annual Euro trip with friends.
If it appreciates enough to cover it's cost then I will be delighted. I will settle for it not costing too much. We intend to keep it long term and treat it accordingly.
We are pretty fixed on a C2 with Aero kit and sunroof. Not silver. We are leaning to the best condition we can find with moderate mileage and comprehensive history. We don't want concourse just really good usable condition.
We have found one with a respected specialist. It looks like it's all of the money but I think a deal can be done with a few preventative jobs (IMS, Clutch, main oil seal, low temp thermostat, water pump etc) and a decent warranty. Mostly it looks mint and so COOL!
I will post pics if it works out :-)
If it appreciates enough to cover it's cost then I will be delighted. I will settle for it not costing too much. We intend to keep it long term and treat it accordingly.
We are pretty fixed on a C2 with Aero kit and sunroof. Not silver. We are leaning to the best condition we can find with moderate mileage and comprehensive history. We don't want concourse just really good usable condition.
We have found one with a respected specialist. It looks like it's all of the money but I think a deal can be done with a few preventative jobs (IMS, Clutch, main oil seal, low temp thermostat, water pump etc) and a decent warranty. Mostly it looks mint and so COOL!
I will post pics if it works out :-)
matfinch said:
1. Gearboxes
Values of tiptronic auto box tend to be cheaper than manuals, as the triptronic was old school tech and sluggish compared to modern PDK. I owned a basic 996 Carrera triptronic briefly and found it quite frustrating, not very responsible, slow performance and mpg suffered. However some owners of the 996 turbo actually prefer the box as it suits more powerful engine.
I think its more a case of it's tolerated by some turbo owners as the power/torque of these cars masks the sluggishness to some extentValues of tiptronic auto box tend to be cheaper than manuals, as the triptronic was old school tech and sluggish compared to modern PDK. I owned a basic 996 Carrera triptronic briefly and found it quite frustrating, not very responsible, slow performance and mpg suffered. However some owners of the 996 turbo actually prefer the box as it suits more powerful engine.
I’ve had my 2003 996 C4 for four years, this is my first Porsche. I bought from a respected Indy Porsche dealer, my advice to you would be to do the same. There is a lot than can go wrong with these cars, good Indy dealers tend to filter out the bad ones, and provide a 6 or 12 months mechanical warranty if the worst does happen.
In terms of which variant of 996 to get, largely personal preference, I was after a C2 or C4 as I didn’t want to pay the premium for a C4S, and bought on condition/history.
Sounds like you may have found a possible car - good luck!
In terms of which variant of 996 to get, largely personal preference, I was after a C2 or C4 as I didn’t want to pay the premium for a C4S, and bought on condition/history.
Sounds like you may have found a possible car - good luck!
rdodger said:
We are pretty fixed on a C2 with Aero kit and sunroof. Not silver. We are leaning to the best condition we can find with moderate mileage and comprehensive history. We don't want concourse just really good usable condition.
For your budget I'd be looking at C4S. But given you want an aero, you should be able to pick up a very nice carrera for that money. Looks like you have found a good one. But this looks nice, if you can live with the interior.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
skinny said:
rdodger said:
We are pretty fixed on a C2 with Aero kit and sunroof. Not silver. We are leaning to the best condition we can find with moderate mileage and comprehensive history. We don't want concourse just really good usable condition.
For your budget I'd be looking at C4S. But given you want an aero, you should be able to pick up a very nice carrera for that money. Looks like you have found a good one. But this looks nice, if you can live with the interior.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
It's not a case of having to 'live with the interior' - it's actually really lovely in the flesh and far better than savannah or the blue leather.
My first 996 had a black interior which was nice, but a bit functional/unexciting whereas the red adds a bit of luxury.
Nothing wrong with a black porsche with a red interior:
http://davidphillipscarsales.co.uk/vehicle/porsche...
This was a well sorted car when I was looking but I wanted non kitted car & ended up with a lovely C4 he had as well.
This was a well sorted car when I was looking but I wanted non kitted car & ended up with a lovely C4 he had as well.
rdodger said:
It's not an investment and will be driven 3-5000 miles a year between March and November including an annual Euro trip with friends.
If it appreciates enough to cover it's cost then I will be delighted. I will settle for it not costing too much. We intend to keep it long term and treat it accordingly.
We are pretty fixed on a C2 with Aero kit and sunroof. Not silver. We are leaning to the best condition we can find with moderate mileage and comprehensive history. We don't want concourse just really good usable condition.
We have found one with a respected specialist. It looks like it's all of the money but I think a deal can be done with a few preventative jobs (IMS, Clutch, main oil seal, low temp thermostat, water pump etc) and a decent warranty. Mostly it looks mint and so COOL!
I will post pics if it works out :-)
Good choice. About 150Kgs lighter than the lardy C4S.If it appreciates enough to cover it's cost then I will be delighted. I will settle for it not costing too much. We intend to keep it long term and treat it accordingly.
We are pretty fixed on a C2 with Aero kit and sunroof. Not silver. We are leaning to the best condition we can find with moderate mileage and comprehensive history. We don't want concourse just really good usable condition.
We have found one with a respected specialist. It looks like it's all of the money but I think a deal can be done with a few preventative jobs (IMS, Clutch, main oil seal, low temp thermostat, water pump etc) and a decent warranty. Mostly it looks mint and so COOL!
I will post pics if it works out :-)
jonny996 said:
http://davidphillipscarsales.co.uk/vehicle/porsche...
This was a well sorted car when I was looking but I wanted non kitted car & ended up with a lovely C4 he had as well.
Ask for a discount for the fake GT3 badgeThis was a well sorted car when I was looking but I wanted non kitted car & ended up with a lovely C4 he had as well.
monthefish said:
It's not a case of having to 'live with the interior' - it's actually really lovely in the flesh and far better than savannah or the blue leather.
My first 996 had a black interior which was nice, but a bit functional/unexciting whereas the red adds a bit of luxury.
I actually like the red as a colour - as you say much better to me than Savannah or the light grey. Its just that (in this one) absolutely everything is red. Steering wheel, instrument binnacle, doors seats carpets roof etc. even the centre console! It just needs breaking up a bit IMOMy first 996 had a black interior which was nice, but a bit functional/unexciting whereas the red adds a bit of luxury.
My 996 is all black inside and actually that needs breaking up too. I've changed the seat backs to body coloured (ocean blue) and considering whether to go blue or silver for the centre console.
Edited by skinny on Tuesday 3rd April 20:37
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