U turn if you want to, Slippy's not for turning .....

[ajondyh]

HokumPokum said:

of course the guy behind the car is the single greatest factor.
with the same driver, the Gt4 WILL MURDER the CR stock for stock.

Murder!!! ROFL

[bcr5784]

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife says 8:06 vs 7:42 - if not murder, at least GBH.

[Desert Dragon]

bcr5784 said:

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife says 8:06 vs 7:42 - if not murder, at least GBH.

Redrum? These N times are pretty contrived by Porsche. Everything has its pecking order. Put an R on sticky rubber and it will definitely go sub 8 mins. a Golf CS S can run 7.47 on sticky rubber nowadays and has virtually the same weight, power, torque etc as a Cayman R. add some performance suspension bits and an R will go even quicker IMO.

[bcr5784]

Desert Dragon said:

Redrum? These N times are pretty contrived by Porsche. Everything has its pecking order. Put an R on sticky rubber and it will definitely go sub 8 mins. a Golf CS S can run 7.47 on sticky rubber nowadays and has virtually the same weight, power, torque etc as a Cayman R. add some performance suspension bits and an R will go even quicker IMO.

That may well be true, and a 718s on sticky rubber might well be as fast as a GT4 - but the debate was stock vs stock.

[Desert Dragon]

bcr5784 said:

Desert Dragon said:

Redrum? These N times are pretty contrived by Porsche. Everything has its pecking order. Put an R on sticky rubber and it will definitely go sub 8 mins. a Golf CS S can run 7.47 on sticky rubber nowadays and has virtually the same weight, power, torque etc as a Cayman R. add some performance suspension bits and an R will go even quicker IMO.

That may well be true, and a 718s on sticky rubber might well be as fast as a GT4 - but the debate was stock vs stock.

I shouldn't have mentioned the suspension components - red herring.

Put a Cayman R on sticky rubber and a fast race driver and I have every confidence the R will run in the 7.40s having driven a Cayman S and a Golf GTI CS S. I also have every confidence the GT4 with that same very fast driver would dip into the 7.30s. Same for the turbocharged 718 in fact with all that torque in reality it may be even quicker.

The general point is that Porsche have a pecking order. They'd never stick the new 991.2 GT3 500bhp motor in a hypothetical GT4 RS for example. Heaven forbid the Cayman is the quicker car in that scenario!

Off topic I think the 720S has caused big headache for Porsche. New GT2 RS is going to struggle to live with it and the 991 turbo S is starting to look poor value against it even though the 720 S is £50k more.

Edited by Desert Dragon on Saturday 3rd June 18:09

[ajondyh]

bcr5784 said:

That may well be true, and a 718s on sticky rubber might well be as fast as a GT4 - but the debate was stock vs stock.

It was indeed and as I said it is slightly quicker which is exactly what I would have expected for 50BHP more, hardly "Murder" or anything like.... Just slightly quicker

[kevs 172]

987 Spyder is the most enjoyable to drive,that's why none are for sale.
Who cares about a few seconds around the ring?

[bcr5784]

If you " wouldn't be seen dead in a ragtop car", then I suppose that doesn't apply. Personally don't mind being seen dead in a hearse....

[Slippydiff]

bcr5784 said:

If you " wouldn't be seen dead in a ragtop car", then I suppose that doesn't apply. Personally don't mind being seen dead in a hearse....

I'd say it's more definitive than just supposing it doesn't apply.

kevs 172 said:

987 Spyder is the most enjoyable to drive,that's why none are for sale.
Who cares about a few seconds around the ring?

Don't care for ragtops, but neither do I give a fig about any car's 'Ring time either.

[ChrisW.]

I think we can say that the CR is a a very good car and as usual with Porsche, a lot of small changes (many not publicised by Porsche) --- make a very big combined difference.

I adored my CR, but I do not miss it for a moment.

Thinking about it, would I have spent on the CR what I have spent on the GT4 developing it ? Probably not.

But my spend on the GT4 brings it so much closer to the GT3RS, my logic was that it was fair value and offsets the depreciation that I had expected at the outset.

Am I enjoying transferring my "racing" budget to the GT4 ? Yes.

And all returnable to standard / over-serviced / and components transportable ultimately to whatever next ??

All in good time

The CR is a very good car and I did lose money on that ... cost £62k, sold £35k ...a while ago.

[Porsche911R]

I still have all these cars talked about inc my new Golf CS , people like what they like.

When my GT4 arrived I sold my R, the GT4 did not fill the missing gap, so I bought another one.

what's best out the 4 is hard to say as every one is different and after different things.

[ajondyh]

ChrisW I did think about a GT4 when they were announced but too late to get on the list. It would have been a premium to pay to get one and as you say the CR would bring circa 35k in part ex leaving a balance of 50- 60k to find. Quite honestly I'd rather have bought an additional CR to make a track car and spend 10k+ on it. You could even put a 4.0L in it and still have plenty of change

[GT4P]

Nice thing about all these pork discussed is there is a car for every budget so no right or wrong car. The CR was a good buy 2 years ago when a low miles/owner car could be had for less than £40k and if I never got gt4 allocation I would have bought one over my allocation for 981 spyder! Now though if I was freeing up some cash and looking for a sub £40k car I would go low miles late 987.2CS without PASM which I dislike on the 987 but like the CR good ones are rare as hens teeth , and if I was going sub £25k for me it would be the 2.9 with a tune up.
Be interesting actually what sort of power could be achieved out of the little 2.9 and how much weight you could remove.
And as for the CR keeping up with a gt4 Dream on ! After owning a 987 spyder for 4 years the Gt4 is hell of a lot quicker! As for road use they are all too quick and long geared for road use hence why I think the 2.9 might actually be the sweet spot for road use!

[ajondyh]

GT4P said:

And as for the CR keeping up with a gt4 Dream on !

Nobody said that

I think you're making things up

[Porsche911R]

GT4P said:

After owning a 987 spyder for 4 years the Gt4 is hell of a lot quicker! As for road use they are all too quick and long geared for road use hence why I think the 2.9 might actually be the sweet spot for road use!

I am not so sure it's a lot quicker really. I race with my mates and have taken both on track, adding 50 bhp and more drag does not really make the GT4 a lot quicker.
here is a Cayman R vs GT4 on the straight at the last PCGB event the 1st 30 seconds will show you on the straights you gain st all.
https://youtu.be/yAh04KpXERs

it does keep up with a stock M3 now though where my Spyder only does to 90 the GT4 stays with an M3 till 150+

Most Spyders stay with GT3's till 90 odd mph also, well the lightweight ones ;-p, I am not just saying that Phooey had a PCCB none AC spyder and he also says the same, there is performance in the weight or lack of ;-)

so hell of a lot quicker, not really, they are not fast cars and the gearing and 20" wheels saps the life out of them a bit.

GT4 1/4 mile is 12.3 the 987.2 Spyder 12.7 , a 911 Turbo S 10.5 , that's what you call a hell of a lot quicker.

or GT4 vs Spyder a second in it to a ton, which is nothing unless drag racing on a strip, driving on your own you cannot notice a second, say "one" to yourself, that's it lol that how much faster it is to a ton, or .05 of a second over 1/4 of a mile as can be seen in that vid I posted.

People do big up their own cars lol

[ChrisW.]

And David, you are only bigging up in a straight line and with a heavy right foot !

[GT4P]

ChrisW. said:

And David, you are only bigging up in a straight line and with a heavy right foot !

Think he needs to check his figures!
0-200kmh pdk spyder 17.9 so the manual will be what 0.5 secs slower whereas gt4 is 14.5!
Some 4 secs quicker than a manual 987 CR/ Spyder
(Spyder figures from fastest laps and gt4 from official brochure)

Edited by GT4P on Monday 5th June 22:34

[LiamH66]

Porsche911R said:

I am not so sure it's a lot quicker really. I race with my mates and have taken both on track, adding 50 bhp and more drag does not really make the GT4 a lot quicker.
here is a Cayman R vs GT4 on the straight at the last PCGB event the 1st 30 seconds will show you on the straights you gain st all.
https://youtu.be/yAh04KpXERs

By 1:30 I had pretty firmly concluded that the GT4 was really quite a bit quicker. Might have been driver, might have been car, but from the driving seat I would have had the feeling of at least a couple of seconds off on a clear lap.

Liam

[Porsche911R]

GT4 will lap quicker, but on the road there is nothing in it.

CW yellow GT4 in that vid has CUP2's and a full Manthy KW ring sus set up on it running -3.5 camber
So for track work it's going to lap a few seconds quicker than a stock GT4 any way !

The R has road tyres and no parts.

People can quote 200kph figures but on the road really ?
I already said my Spyder runs out of puff at 90 vs an M3 where my GT4 will stay with an M3 till 150+

the 1/4 mile really shows up the speed difference as it's a short run and you gain 0.5 second in a Gt4

would I call my GT4 hell of a lot quicker no, it is quicker yes. Sit in any macca or any 911 Turbo or even a Audi TTRS and that's what I call a hell of a lot quicker.

GT3 are not fast it's not what these cars are about, I just find it funny people saying how much faster a GT4 is for road use.

14 or 17 seconds to 125 mph is meh when a macca is doing it in 8.5.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 6th June 08:31

[boxsey]

LiamH66 said:

Porsche911R said:

I am not so sure it's a lot quicker really. I race with my mates and have taken both on track, adding 50 bhp and more drag does not really make the GT4 a lot quicker.
here is a Cayman R vs GT4 on the straight at the last PCGB event the 1st 30 seconds will show you on the straights you gain st all.
https://youtu.be/yAh04KpXERs

By 1:30 I had pretty firmly concluded that the GT4 was really quite a bit quicker. Might have been driver, might have been car, but from the driving seat I would have had the feeling of at least a couple of seconds off on a clear lap.

Liam

Your suspicions are right. Chris in the GT4 is a lot quicker driver than Kevin in the Cayman R. In fact, Chris is a lot quicker than most of us track day drivers, full stop. To be fair to David he was just pointing out that the GT4 was not destroying the CR on the straight bits. I think you're also right about the 2 seconds when considering the same driver in both cars. I estimate that I would lap a 3 mile circuit (e.g. my local Oulton Park) two or three seconds faster in a GT4 than I can in my Cayman R. However, if I ever change up to a GT4 it wouldn't solely be for gaining two or three seconds because the man maths of £15,000 per second wouldn't stack up!