Cayman R Chat

[Gibbo205]

julian987R said:

yep i imagine the want of ceramics on an R is very high.
All still to play for on this one....
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2011-porsche-9...

Ceramics are a huge bonus on the Cayman R and Spyder as they are a decent upgrade and look so much better due to much larger disc and calipers, weight savings and no dust.

Ceramics on my Spyder are incredible, stops better than my GT3 !

[julian987R]

Gibbo205 said:

julian987R said:

yep i imagine the want of ceramics on an R is very high.
All still to play for on this one....
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2011-porsche-9...

Ceramics are a huge bonus on the Cayman R and Spyder as they are a decent upgrade and look so much better due to much larger disc and calipers, weight savings and no dust.

Ceramics on my Spyder are incredible, stops better than my GT3 !

i can imagine.
Amazing how rare it is to find one. Must be a ratio of 1 in 20 has ceramics....which considering how many are in the UK I reckon you can count on one hand (no more than two hands) how many have ceramics.

[Gibbo205]

julian987R said:

i can imagine.
Amazing how rare it is to find one. Must be a ratio of 1 in 20 has ceramics....which considering how many are in the UK I reckon you can count on one hand (no more than two hands) how many have ceramics.

Since I've had my Spyder I've not seen another with ceramics for sale, I was looking for 18 months and it was the only one to come up, was more or less perfect specification for me too, for me the only downside is it is black but when it is clean it really is a show stopper. Also having a manual with SSK, buckets, AC, PCM3.0 NAV, Spyder silver wheels really made it for me best possible spec as I wanted AC/PCM also not sure if the speakers have had an upgrade but the stereo is really good, way better than the one in the my GT3. Mine also has the GT3 brake cooling ducts fitted as well.

[Andyoz]

Gibbo205 said:

Since I've had my Spyder I've not seen another with ceramics for sale, I was looking for 18 months and it was the only one to come up, was more or less perfect specification for me too, for me the only downside is it is black but when it is clean it really is a show stopper. Also having a manual with SSK, buckets, AC, PCM3.0 NAV, Spyder silver wheels really made it for me best possible spec as I wanted AC/PCM also not sure if the speakers have had an upgrade but the stereo is really good, way better than the one in the my GT3. Mine also has the GT3 brake cooling ducts fitted as well.

Yes, I passed up on buying a lovely GT Silver (I think it was GT) one with Ceramics 2.5 years ago for low £40k's.

[julian987R]

In-bound at Ashgoods

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208018...

no ceramics though

[ajondyh]

One thing to consider if you do track days, a trip into the gravel trap can ruin the ceramic discs.

[julian987R]

ajondyh said:

One thing to consider if you do track days, a trip into the gravel trap can ruin the ceramic discs.

I seem to recall people on threads saying they remove their ceramics when they go to track to derisk things. makes sense though a bit odd as its like whats the point in them then?

[ChrisW.]

The track is where the PCCB's excel ... the steel brakes were a little weak by comparison.

There was a company refurbishing PCCB's ... they were called SICOM but I'm not sure if they are still around.

Should the need arise, maybe ask JZM / RPM Technik / ??

[frayz]

Lots of Porsche guys who track hard and use ceramics upgrade to Surface Transforms anyway.
Personally never found PCCBs offered any better braking than Giros and 29s but i do love the visuals, the lack of weight and the fact your wheels stay mint all the time. My wheels are black within a few stops and that can get tiresome if you like things shiny.

[julian987R]

Found a set for the 981...

https://teile.com/en/porsche-tequipment-shop/model...

32 grand. Assume for the R they are a similar price.

I knew they were expensive but wow.....so that R that sold for mid £40K with Ceramics is, from a retrofit POV, if one was inclined, a £70k+ car.

[tighnamara]

julian987R said:

Found a set for the 981...

https://teile.com/en/porsche-tequipment-shop/model...

32 grand. Assume for the R they are a similar price.

I knew they were expensive but wow.....so that R that sold for mid £40K with Ceramics is, from a retrofit POV, if one was inclined, a £70k+ car.

You will get to £100k some how Julian

[julian987R]

tighnamara said:

julian987R said:

Found a set for the 981...

https://teile.com/en/porsche-tequipment-shop/model...

32 grand. Assume for the R they are a similar price.

I knew they were expensive but wow.....so that R that sold for mid £40K with Ceramics is, from a retrofit POV, if one was inclined, a £70k+ car.

You will get to £100k some how Julian

[ATM]

julian987R said:

Found a set for the 981...

https://teile.com/en/porsche-tequipment-shop/model...

32 grand. Assume for the R they are a similar price.

I knew they were expensive but wow.....so that R that sold for mid £40K with Ceramics is, from a retrofit POV, if one was inclined, a £70k+ car.

Second hand setups normally or used to sell for around 5 or 6 grand. Found this set same as above.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144617569623

[Pflanzgarten]

ATM said:

Second hand setups normally or used to sell for around 5 or 6 grand. Found this set same as above.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144617569623

Isn't the master cylinder and uprights different as well? I wasn't aware it was a simple as swapping out the discs and callipers.

[Escy]

There was a 987.1 Boxster S for sale with ceramics for 10k a year back.

[ATM]

Pflanzgarten said:

ATM said:

Second hand setups normally or used to sell for around 5 or 6 grand. Found this set same as above.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144617569623

Isn't the master cylinder and uprights different as well? I wasn't aware it was a simple as swapping out the discs and callipers.

I cant image them making different uprights for a different brake setup but that's just a guess.

Different Master Cylinder is possible yes but depends on the car.

I think the 981 needs reprogramming as the esp controls rear wheel braking to control rear wheel spin and this needs adjusting for the 350mm ceramic discs which are much bigger than the steel setup.

[Jim1556]

If a straight swap, it'd almost make sense to buy this: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207127... and swap brakes then sell it again at a similar price.

Granted, the discs may need restoration but a good way to upgrade the standard (poor) brakes - calipers alone make a vast improvement (IMO)...

[ATM]

Jim1556 said:

If a straight swap, it'd almost make sense to buy this: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207127... and swap brakes then sell it again at a similar price.

Granted, the discs may need restoration but a good way to upgrade the standard (poor) brakes - calipers alone make a vast improvement (IMO)...

Even if not a straight swap if you have the 2 cars side by side then you can swap whatever else is also required. Personally I'd be swapping the tip for a manual and keeping the rest of the car as is.

[Slippydiff]

Gibbo205 said:

Ceramics are a huge bonus on the Cayman R and Spyder as they are a decent upgrade and look so much better due to much larger disc and calipers, weight savings and no dust.

Ceramics on my Spyder are incredible, stops better than my GT3 !

Whilst there are undoubtedly weight savings to be had with the use of the PCCB's, it's not to the degree many would think.

A 987 front PCCB brake assembly : 350mm disc, stainless steel bell, six pot caliper and brake pads etc weighs in at 11.65kg.

The equivalent 987 S 318mm steel disc and four pot caliper weighs in at 13.75kgs.

And whilst 2kgs per side on the front wheels isn't to be sniffed at (and any reduction in unsprung weight is beneficial) it's not the quantum leap in weight loss over steel discs Porsche and its PCCB acolytes would have you believe ...

I crunched the numbers after spending many hours on a certain brake manufacturers website and found a 355mm, 32mm thick steel disc and four piston forged caliper that weighed in at 10.7kg including alloy bells, caliper spacers and pads. They'd be a lot cheaper than PCCB's, probably more durable, and definitely cheaper to replace when they're worn out, and on the basis of a similar sized BBK made by the same manufacturer that I ran on my M3 CSL, I'd say they were superior to any Porsche OE brakes ...

For sure, they'd produce copious amounts of brake dust when used as intended, but that's what ceramic coatings were invented for isn't it ?

[Gibbo205]

Slippydiff said:

Whilst there are undoubtedly weight savings to be had with the use of the PCCB's, it's not to the degree many would think.

A 987 front PCCB brake assembly : 350mm disc, stainless steel bell, six pot caliper and brake pads etc weighs in at 11.65kg.

The equivalent 987 S 318mm steel disc and four pot caliper weighs in at 13.75kgs.

And whilst 2kgs per side on the front wheels isn't to be sniffed at (and any reduction in unsprung weight is beneficial) it's not the quantum leap in weight loss over steel discs Porsche and its PCCB acolytes would have you believe ...

I crunched the numbers after spending many hours on a certain brake manufacturers website and found a 355mm, 32mm thick steel disc and four piston forged caliper that weighed in at 10.7kg including alloy bells, caliper spacers and pads. They'd be a lot cheaper than PCCB's, probably more durable, and definitely cheaper to replace when they're worn out, and on the basis of a similar sized BBK made by the same manufacturer that I ran on my M3 CSL, I'd say they were superior to any Porsche OE brakes ...

For sure, they'd produce copious amounts of brake dust when used as intended, but that's what ceramic coatings were invented for isn't it ?

A lot of truth but as you say you are saving 2kg per side, but the other benefits are much larger disc and larger callipers which when you park a Spyder or Cayman R side by side, one on steels and one on ceramics, well the steel car kind of looks woefully under braked, as the brakes look a little lost behind the wheels, whereas ceramics fill the wheels perfectly.

Also having driven both, Cayman R on steels and Spyder on ceramics the latter does have better stopping power and better fade resistance, all in all if there are two cars for sale, both identical in specification you'd be pretty crazy to go for steels over ceramics on these cars as your getting a decent brake upgrade, essentially a BBK, with weight savings, no dust and much better looking.

The replacement cost thing, if someone has a R or Spyder and is doing a lot of track days it is best to fit a set of 350mm steel disc, you can still use the ceramic calliper and pads for the improved modulation and power the larger callipers give and then just put the ceramics to one side, but saying this with how little the R and Spyder weigh with some basic brake cooling upgrades the ceramics work well on track as long as they are bring up to temperature gradually and given a good couple of cooling laps.