718 Sound and Constant Whinging !

[bcr5784]

Twinfan said:

There are several 981 owners who have driven a 718 either as a demo or a loan car, myself included. I've said these things before, but to continue the discussion

Power response - it's a turbo and the accelerator pedal feels 'elastic', there's less of a direct connection between you and the engine. I don't like it, but it's a turbo thing not a 718-specific thing.

Supposedly improved handling - I couldn't tell much difference to be honest, The steering was a bit quicker, which I didn't like. I prefer the slightly lazier and more precise (for me) rack of the 981. I find it easier to hold a precise line, it's less twitchy/sensitive.

The biggest changes from 981 to 718 are engine, tech and possibly steering. Everything else is minor tweaks only,

I personally thought the steering was noticeably improved over my 981. The handling was improved - partly because the Pirelli N1s are more "mobile" than the N0s and partly because the extra torque makes it easier to steer with the throttle.

Regarding engine (base 718) , I wouldn't have characterised its response as elastic. Some turbos are but to me the off/on boost transition was sudden and unpleasant (making smooth driving needlessly difficult) but above 3000/3500rpm the throttle response was no different to most modern fly-by-wire engines whether NA or not. ie it wasn't great - but neither is the 981. I did some tests and lag was very noticeable at 2000rpm (since measured around 2 seconds) and the transition to on boost unpleasantly agricultural. Lag was much reduced by 3000 and gone by 3500rpm.

[diffstar]

Si-3PO said:

I had a 981 CS and 981 BGTS and for me the handling and performance is better from my 718 CS. I like the steering, very precise and pointy, and obviously overtaking power is phenomenal compared to the NASPs.

The engine note is the only reason I know it won’t be a long term keeper, I really hope I can get a 718 Spyder and if not then I’m hoping Porsche work some magic with the 718 successor.

I had looked at getting back into a 981 a couple of months ago but in many ways it felt like too much of a step backwards for me, and I like new things

I was in the same boat Si, the engine note is simply not as good as a 981. Yet for me the benefits of my 718 CS over the 981 where too great to take that backward step.

However once you get over the fact it doesn't sound as good as previous model, i think it is a great sports car. I also think the speed of it over a 981 is astonishing. Driving a 981 now feels like I have left the handbrake on..... ;-)

[DJMC]

Bennachie said:

Aqua - stunning

Correct!

[jonttt]

In a striaght line the turbo will always be faster but on fast B roads with the required deep braking the turbo overrun and lag / unpredictability when putting the power back down just ruins the drive. Added to that the difference in associated soundtrack and the cars are worlds apart as a drivers car to me. The next 718 will be faster, where will that leave the current one in the never ending race for power ?

Its what was lost with the NA engine that will make it a special car to own for a very long time.

[HighwayStar]

jonttt said:

In a striaght line the turbo will always be faster but on fast B roads with the required deep braking the turbo overrun and lag / unpredictability when putting the power back down just ruins the drive. Added to that the difference in associated soundtrack and the cars are worlds apart as a drivers car to me. The next 718 will be faster, where will that leave the current one in the never ending race for power ?

Its what was lost with the NA engine that will make it a special car to own for a very long time.

Careful, you'll be another labelled as in denial... That's what they do now...

[bob2146]

diffstar said:

I was in the same boat Si, the engine note is simply not as good as a 981. Yet for me the benefits of my 718 CS over the 981 where too great to take that backward step.

However once you get over the fact it doesn't sound as good as previous model, i think it is a great sports car. I also think the speed of it over a 981 is astonishing. Driving a 981 now feels like I have left the handbrake on..... ;-)

This is what I've been saying all along- sound is merely one aspect and on the whole is over emphasised and really detracts from a great car. Yes sound is important to some, others value better performance and tech. Some (a delusional minority perhaps) claim sound is the only thing which is important, but they also appear to be in denial about missing out on buying the newer and better car Mentioning no names eh Mr Cat...

It is the balance that appears to be lacking in this debate, and I won't claim to be completely neutral now having some skin in the game, which I didn't at the start. If Mr Cat's review was even a bit more even handed rather than just an over zealous criticism of switches and headlights it might have had more credibility, or maybe not. He did try to say something positive about the acceleration so I guess is not all bad...

JTT - welcome back hope you had a good holiday.

HST - there's a smiley there for a reason, I am being light hearted just to be clear lol.

Edited by bob2146 on Thursday 19th April 15:15

[anonymous-user]

jonttt said:

but on fast B roads with the required deep braking the turbo overrun and lag / unpredictability when putting the power back down just ruins the drive.

I drive a 981, but this comment is interesting to me. It took me a while to get used to the engine characteristics (which I now love) and to getting all the power in the top end with nothing in the low revs. I would have thought if you learn to drive the turbo correctly, you are matching your gear changes directly into the power band so no lag and hence nothing is 'unpredictable.' Or am I missing something here ?

[Si-3PO]

Schmed said:

I drive a 981, but this comment is interesting to me. It took me a while to get used to the engine characteristics (which I now love) and to getting all the power in the top end with nothing in the low revs. I would have thought if you learn to drive the turbo correctly, you are matching your gear changes directly into the power band so no lag and hence nothing is 'unpredictable.' Or am I missing something here ?

No you’re absolutely correct, when you’re on it with the 718 you don’t get any lag, and the traction and acceleration out of twisties is incredible.

It took me a while to get used to the gears and turbo, there’s times when I’ve dropped to second gear for an overtake as I would have in my 981 BGTS when I should’ve used the torque from third. There’s definitely a learning curve for those like me that have been in NASP cars for the last 20 years!

[bcr5784]

Schmed said:

I drive a 981, but this comment is interesting to me. It took me a while to get used to the engine characteristics (which I now love) and to getting all the power in the top end with nothing in the low revs. I would have thought if you learn to drive the turbo correctly, you are matching your gear changes directly into the power band so no lag and hence nothing is 'unpredictable.' Or am I missing something here ?

I have to agree - I took a 718 around my favourite test route and around the twisty B road bits with the turbo wound up is was absolutely fine - more engaging and more fun than my 981. It was on the less "challenging" bits where turbo lag and noise came to the fore. It was a PDK - I would expect a manual would be more "unpredictable" - particularly if you use Sport mode (anti lag is disabled).

[HighwayStar]

bob2146 said:

diffstar said:

I was in the same boat Si, the engine note is simply not as good as a 981. Yet for me the benefits of my 718 CS over the 981 where too great to take that backward step.

However once you get over the fact it doesn't sound as good as previous model, i think it is a great sports car. I also think the speed of it over a 981 is astonishing. Driving a 981 now feels like I have left the handbrake on..... ;-)

This is what I've been saying all along- sound is merely one aspect and on the whole is over emphasised and really detracts from a great car. Yes sound is important to some, others value better performance and tech. Some (a delusional minority perhaps) claim sound is the only thing which is important, but they also appear to be in denial about missing out on buying the newer and better car Mentioning no names eh Mr Cat...

It is the balance that appears to be lacking in this debate, and I won't claim to be completely neutral now having some skin in the game, which I didn't at the start. If Mr Cat's review was even a bit more even handed rather than just an over zealous criticism of switches and headlights it might have had more credibility, or maybe not. He did try to say something positive about the acceleration so I guess is not all bad...

JTT - welcome back hope you had a good holiday.

HST - there's a smiley there for a reason, I am being light hearted just to be clear lol.

Edited by bob2146 on Thursday 19th April 15:15

Most are not underplaying or denying the 718's plus points. A lot of the 718 guys aren't really interested in what we are saying.
Case in point... You have laboured the sound angle. For the vast majority of us 981 guys it's NOT purely the sound of the 981. It's the power delivery, the bit you maybe missing or choosing to ignore.
Me personally the tech doesn't interest me in the slightest. If it did I'd be sitting in a TT RS and neither of us would see where it went, especially in the rain. I love tech but, for me, it's just not a factor in this situation. I understand the whole more low down grunt, easier to drive, less gear changes, no need to rev the engine out. Everybody gets it. Not everyone wants it that way. No body is wrong... We are all right. Unless you're sitting on one and wish you had the other.

As I've said before re the 718.. it's a great car with and engine that separates me from it but all you'll see is I think the 718 is crap.
I can live with your/the criticisms of the 981, it doesn't give you what you want. No one here is going to start a threat looking for some 981 love...
If you want shiny and new and they latest thing you got it. If that shiny new thing doesn't give me what I'm looking for, I'm not going to buy it. Why would I Bob?

This thing said about the lights and switches... does it really matter? It's all part of his critique. Me, I love the rear light clusters on the 718, the PCM is a big step forward but as I said I can take it or leave it. If my car was a daily and I spent hours in the car then I'd probably have more want for it (the PCM). The switch on the steering wheel. The first thing I thought was cheap. It felt cheap... I'd still say it if the 718 had a F6 so it's not looking for things to have a pop at it about. Someone here said he thinks the 981 Sport Design steering was cheap and nasty. I don't see that as over zealous. It's what he though. I'm happy with it, it's just opinion and preferences. The same with the F6 and F4T. Just personal preference, nothing to do with over zealous, credibility or denial.

[diffstar]

jonttt said:

In a striaght line the turbo will always be faster but on fast B roads with the required deep braking the turbo overrun and lag / unpredictability when putting the power back down just ruins the drive. Added to that the difference in associated soundtrack and the cars are worlds apart as a drivers car to me. The next 718 will be faster, where will that leave the current one in the never ending race for power ?

Its what was lost with the NA engine that will make it a special car to own for a very long time.

Sorry Jon this is utter waffle, the 718 will disappear in the distance on a B road. Unpredictability???

They really are not "worlds apart" lets be honest here.

[Twinfan]

Improved tech? No use to me, all I want/need is DAB. I use Google maps on my phone for nav, and TomTom camera warnings, as they're brilliant and free.

Turbo throttle response? No thanks, I'd rather have NASP as I prefer the delivery and immediacy of it.

Faster steering? I tried it, didn't prefer it but I'm not too bothered.

Improved handling and brakes? They're not that different so no real comments.

A faster car? On today's road surfaces and speed limits I need more speed than a 3.4ltr 981 like a hole in the head.

Sound? I think the F4T sounds awful but it's not the only reason I have no interest in the 718, as this post shows.

Edited by Twinfan on Thursday 19th April 17:09

[Geneve]

Blimey, is this thread still running?

Surely, most posts are supporting/defending individual owner choices - we all do it.

Like them or loathe them, for anyone seeking an independent opinion, the motoring press all seem to have a similar consensus, and they are supposed to be impartial.

Latest Evo review of the Cayman 718 GTS:

There is no shadow of a doubt that it is quicker than the old flat-six GTS. If only it had the soundtrack that prickled the hairs on the back of your neck and matched the majesty of the mountains.....
The old (981) Cayman GTS was arguably all the car you ever needed - hard, if not impossible, to fault, especially at the price. The new GTS is still brilliant, but despite the standard sports exhaust, the lacklustre soundtrack means it's now not quite the one-car quiver it used to be.

[anonymous-user]

Off topic, but this is a 4 cylinder absolute classic...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8dYbYBP1ToU

4T not always a bad thing ?

[jonttt]

diffstar said:

jonttt said:

In a striaght line the turbo will always be faster but on fast B roads with the required deep braking the turbo overrun and lag / unpredictability when putting the power back down just ruins the drive. Added to that the difference in associated soundtrack and the cars are worlds apart as a drivers car to me. The next 718 will be faster, where will that leave the current one in the never ending race for power ?

Its what was lost with the NA engine that will make it a special car to own for a very long time.

Sorry Jon this is utter waffle, the 718 will disappear in the distance on a B road. Unpredictability???

They really are not "worlds apart" lets be honest here.

I did not say the 981 would be faster, what I was trying (and obviously failing) to say was that the NA is much more fun to drive on the twisties ie a combination of the engine and the noise.

If I simply want faster than the 981 there are plenty of cars I would rather be in than the 718, however if its the driving experience I want there are very few cars I would rather be in and the 718 is not one of them, thats why they are worlds apart.

[bo duke]

Geneve said:

Blimey, is this thread still running?

Surely, most posts are supporting/defending individual owner choices - we all do it.

Like them or loathe them, for anyone seeking an independent opinion, the motoring press all seem to have a similar consensus, and they are supposed to be impartial.

Latest Evo review of the Cayman 718 GTS:

There is no shadow of a doubt that it is quicker than the old flat-six GTS. If only it had the soundtrack that prickled the hairs on the back of your neck and matched the majesty of the mountains.....
The old (981) Cayman GTS was arguably all the car you ever needed - hard, if not impossible, to fault, especially at the price. The new GTS is still brilliant, but despite the standard sports exhaust, the lacklustre soundtrack means it's now not quite the one-car quiver it used to be.

^ What he said ^
It doesn’t really matter though, the 718 will evolve, the 981 will get old and unreliable, and anyone who wants a new car/finance only has one choice anyway. It is a debate/thread that will swing inexorably in the 718s favour... until it is resurrected in the classic Porsche forums/magazines in 10 years time

[HighwayStar]

bo duke said:

Geneve said:

Blimey, is this thread still running?

Surely, most posts are supporting/defending individual owner choices - we all do it.

Like them or loathe them, for anyone seeking an independent opinion, the motoring press all seem to have a similar consensus, and they are supposed to be impartial.

Latest Evo review of the Cayman 718 GTS:

There is no shadow of a doubt that it is quicker than the old flat-six GTS. If only it had the soundtrack that prickled the hairs on the back of your neck and matched the majesty of the mountains.....
The old (981) Cayman GTS was arguably all the car you ever needed - hard, if not impossible, to fault, especially at the price. The new GTS is still brilliant, but despite the standard sports exhaust, the lacklustre soundtrack means it's now not quite the one-car quiver it used to be.

^ What he said ^
It doesn’t really matter though, the 718 will evolve, the 981 will get old and unreliable, and anyone who wants a new car/finance only has one choice anyway. It is a debate/thread that will swing inexorably in the 718s favour... until it is resurrected in the classic Porsche forums/magazines in 10 years time

One choice? Really!!! And what’s that choice?

[AkashSaha123]

Question to both 718 & 981 owners:

1. Why can't you like the sound of both? I like classical music and electronic music. Why fight over something so remedial?

F6 sounds great, F4T has a different tone but still sounds great! Both sound much better than my Tesla

[Twinfan]

You could like the sound of both, no-one says that's impossible.

However, lots of people don't feel that way

[Koln-RS]

Whatever individuals on here might think, the market will make its own judgement.
The 981 Caymans and Boxsters will probably be seen as niche models with the 911 engine.
But the 718s will be seen as the newer version with all the new car benefits, plentiful availability to spec, good pcp deals, etc, and that’s more important to many.