718 review - test drove today
Discussion
nickfrog said:
Not everyone sees softer touch plastics as an important criteria though, so they may consider the cheaper product as being as good and therefore better value.
Having said that, the delta in lease rates between "equivalent" VW and Seat is small, if any, which may indicate better residuals for the VW and that most people do value softer plastics...or indeed the brand.
Having said that, the delta in lease rates between "equivalent" VW and Seat is small, if any, which may indicate better residuals for the VW and that most people do value softer plastics...or indeed the brand.
It wasn't softer touch plastics on the Ibiza that put us off, it was that the interior door and roof panels moved inwards when you pressed them.
Door cards bending inwards didn't install confidence that it was a quality product.
ORD said:
And most people who buy Porsches wouldn't know any of those things about the car or, even if they did, wouldn't know why they matter.
These are German premium cars first and foremost to most buyers. There is an added brand image of 'sportiness', but the idea that anything but a minority of buyers are buying for the mid-engine layout and 52-48 weight distribution or whatever is nonsense.
Porsche would still sell decent numbers if they were FWD.
Thats a really sad post, and if true would say that Porsche arent sports cars and the drivers are only interested in the name on the badge.These are German premium cars first and foremost to most buyers. There is an added brand image of 'sportiness', but the idea that anything but a minority of buyers are buying for the mid-engine layout and 52-48 weight distribution or whatever is nonsense.
Porsche would still sell decent numbers if they were FWD.
Even with British standards of education drivers should understand the significance of the weight distribution
bordseye said:
Thats a really sad post, and if true would say that Porsche arent sports cars and the drivers are only interested in the name on the badge.
Even with British standards of education drivers should understand the significance of the weight distribution
I don't think that's quite fair.Even with British standards of education drivers should understand the significance of the weight distribution
Aside from really niche products (Caterhams, etc), cars have to be lots of things to lots of people. Porsches do, I think, a very good job of combining luxury, usefulness and a genuinely good driving experience.
It doesn't make the cars any less good that most of the buyers don't really buy them for some of what makes them so good. Most buyers of Range Rovers probably have no need or desire to go off road in any serious way, but the vehicle is still a good off-roader.
bordseye said:
ORD said:
And most people who buy Porsches wouldn't know any of those things about the car or, even if they did, wouldn't know why they matter.
These are German premium cars first and foremost to most buyers. There is an added brand image of 'sportiness', but the idea that anything but a minority of buyers are buying for the mid-engine layout and 52-48 weight distribution or whatever is nonsense.
Porsche would still sell decent numbers if they were FWD.
Thats a really sad post, and if true would say that Porsche arent sports cars and the drivers are only interested in the name on the badge.These are German premium cars first and foremost to most buyers. There is an added brand image of 'sportiness', but the idea that anything but a minority of buyers are buying for the mid-engine layout and 52-48 weight distribution or whatever is nonsense.
Porsche would still sell decent numbers if they were FWD.
Even with British standards of education drivers should understand the significance of the weight distribution
2 of the Box guys haven't a clue. One had simply wanted one for a long time but hadn't a clue about it, that it was mid engined. Nothing.
The other, he thought he'd bought a 3.2 S. He'd bought a 2.7 and thinks his RCZ handles better. Now he's an extreme case but that's 2 examples of people who just wanted a Porsche. No idea about their sporting history, reputation for well engineered cars etc.
There will be plenty of folk who just want a Porsche but are not invested in the same way as a real enthusiast/PHer. Some will discover, learn and become more than just liking the badge.
Perhaps these anecdotal examples show that people understand that cars with a Porsche badge are more 'sporty' than other marques, which is why they buy a Porsche, but they don't understand, or don't care to understand, why cars with a Porsche badge are more 'sporty'.
A Cayman or a Boxster or a 911 certainly look nothing like a BMW or a Mercedes or an Audi, so it's more than just buying a premium German badge. Even your most ignorant of car buyers would understand that basic level of 'sportiness', just from the more sporty looks that come with a Porsche badge.
I have no anecdotal evidence of my own, I don't know a single person who is into cars, Porsches or otherwise, or anyone who owns anything more than a basic runaround to do the shopping or fetch the kids from school. The only response I get from people I know is along the lines of 'Ooh a Porsche. Nice', and then change the subject.
A Cayman or a Boxster or a 911 certainly look nothing like a BMW or a Mercedes or an Audi, so it's more than just buying a premium German badge. Even your most ignorant of car buyers would understand that basic level of 'sportiness', just from the more sporty looks that come with a Porsche badge.
I have no anecdotal evidence of my own, I don't know a single person who is into cars, Porsches or otherwise, or anyone who owns anything more than a basic runaround to do the shopping or fetch the kids from school. The only response I get from people I know is along the lines of 'Ooh a Porsche. Nice', and then change the subject.
Edited by Tim bo on Monday 24th July 05:19
Bennachie said:
These 911 are quiet for diesels though. Must be 'cos all the noise is behind you.............................
On a serious note, I had a Macan S diesel as a courtesy car last week and it was hands-down the quietest diesel I have ever encountered. The merest hint of 'rattle' otherwise I would have been convinced it was a petrol model. I was extremely impressed. My OH did say it was fine sounding quiet and smooth now, but how many miles could she put on before it started sounding like a tractor? Fair point.PhantomPH said:
On a serious note, I had a Macan S diesel as a courtesy car last week and it was hands-down the quietest diesel I have ever encountered. The merest hint of 'rattle' otherwise I would have been convinced it was a petrol model. I was extremely impressed. My OH did say it was fine sounding quiet and smooth now, but how many miles could she put on before it started sounding like a tractor? Fair point.
It surprises me that there are still noisy diesels out there. I had a 330D BMW over 15 years ago which was the most refined engine I have owned bar none.(though to be fair I don't go in for luxury saloons)ORD said:
I don't think that's quite fair.
Aside from really niche products (Caterhams, etc), cars have to be lots of things to lots of people. Porsches do, I think, a very good job of combining luxury, usefulness and a genuinely good driving experience.
It doesn't make the cars any less good that most of the buyers don't really buy them for some of what makes them so good. Most buyers of Range Rovers probably have no need or desire to go off road in any serious way, but the vehicle is still a good off-roader.
Not convinced by that argument. You will see a lot of blond wives / partners / girlfriends doing the shopping in the Boxter but you wont see that in a Lotus. Reason is that the Boxter is a family car with a soft top that makes no demands on you. The Lotus is a sports car.Aside from really niche products (Caterhams, etc), cars have to be lots of things to lots of people. Porsches do, I think, a very good job of combining luxury, usefulness and a genuinely good driving experience.
It doesn't make the cars any less good that most of the buyers don't really buy them for some of what makes them so good. Most buyers of Range Rovers probably have no need or desire to go off road in any serious way, but the vehicle is still a good off-roader.
Does anyone buy a Range Rover to go off road these days?
bordseye said:
Not convinced by that argument. You will see a lot of blond wives / partners / girlfriends doing the shopping in the Boxter but you wont see that in a Lotus. Reason is that the Boxter is a family car with a soft top that makes no demands on you. The Lotus is a sports car.
Does anyone buy a Range Rover to go off road these days?
I don't follow the point you are making or how it is responsive to what I said Does anyone buy a Range Rover to go off road these days?
Forgot to mention there is a consolation prize for Android users with the 718 nav. The Boxster I tried had full RSAP with data support. This means Android users will get a stronger signal than Apple users for both data and calls even if the phone box is used (Phone box is a pointless option if you have a phone with RSAP). Also means the built-in car data stuff does not need its own sim card either. Downside is no Android Auto of course.
I have an aging Android phone HTC M8 which has been so-so. I was contemplating going back to the iphone due to carplay but I think in order to use it, you have to have it wired as opposed to wireless and I reckon I would keep forgetting that I'd put the phone in the armrest. I also didn't like the look of the iphone icons on the screen, it makes the PCM look a bit naff. How good is carplay anyway?
ONtheROCS said:
I reckon I would keep forgetting that I'd put the phone in the armrest. I also didn't like the look of the iphone icons on the screen, it makes the PCM look a bit naff. How good is carplay anyway?
I use CarPlay pretty much every journey - I have strong 4G signal most of the time where I am and I have found it to be one of the best value and most heavily used options I chose (I took in lieu of nav). The music (if you subscribe to Apple Music or have a large library) is excellent, Spotify was clunky so I moved across to Apple Music. Siri integration is good, especially selecting music and handling messages. IMessage works really well and calls work well. The latest update on Maps makes it a really good Sat Nav - out performs the one in the wife's mk7 golf imo. Negatives - the in built phone system is disabled so you lose that on the dash info. It needs data to do pretty much everything, I've not seen any heavy usage but if you have poor signal the feature set is reduced significantly. Very few apps are CarPlay enabled - competition lawyers should be taking a look at that bit - some great navigation apps are blocked and no WhatsApp etc - of all of my apps, only TuneIn radio works. Forget to plug in the phone and it's annoying stopping to connect up. Your fear on forgetting the phone is in the storage compartment is well placed - whilst I get a warning if it connects on Bluetooth when I switch the engine off (seemingly only if it pairs before CarPlay kicks in), I still forget my phone at least 20% of the time - irritating as hell. I believe the full flavour nav enabled pcm may operate the Carplay over WiFi but don't have it so no idea...
Overall I'm extremely happy with it - it provided a decent saving on Nav to roll into other options I wouldn't be without. I just hope my memory improves on not leaving the phone in the car...
Edited by stamp78 on Monday 24th July 21:25
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