Chris Harris GT4 review
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I have very similar views to this. "Better" is often used to describe the objective measures on a paddle shift, eg quicker shift times. However, some of the older systems are "better" in my view because they have more character than a seamless shift, which quite frankly makes for a pretty boring driving experience. No one doubts that paddles are quicker, and can make more sense in certain situations, eg sitting in traffic. But I don't drive a drivers' car sitting in traffic. Sitting in traffic is often a chore of getting from A to B, when in many cases you'd be better off sitting in a cab, experiencing no driver involvement at all.A question which has not yet been answered is how far would supporters of PDK go to make a car "better"? What about a car that picks the lines on a track for you, or brakes for you, or accelerates for you? No doubt a robotic car that does those things would set faster lap times than a conventional car, and so is technically superior, and it would remove the "stress" of pressing a clutch, changing gear, steering, pressing the accelerator etc, but surely people can see it would be less involving?
Where is the threshold at which technology, takes away from the driving experience?
Alpinestars said:
I have very similar views to this. "Better" is often used to describe the objective measures on a paddle shift, eg quicker shift times. However, some of the older systems are "better" in my view because they have more character than a seamless shift, which quite frankly makes for a pretty boring driving experience. No one doubts that paddles are quicker, and can make more sense in certain situations, eg sitting in traffic. But I don't drive a drivers' car sitting in traffic. Sitting in traffic is often a chore of getting from A to B, when in many cases you'd be better off sitting in a cab, experiencing no driver involvement at all.
A question which has not yet been answered is how far would supporters of PDK go to make a car "better"? What about a car that picks the lines on a track for you, or brakes for you, or accelerates for you? No doubt a robotic car that does those things would set faster lap times than a conventional car, and so is technically superior, and it would remove the "stress" of pressing a clutch, changing gear, steering, pressing the accelerator etc, but surely people can see it would be less involving?
Where is the threshold at which technology, takes away from the driving experience?
I thought the 991 GT3 did brake for you and did steer for you these days.A question which has not yet been answered is how far would supporters of PDK go to make a car "better"? What about a car that picks the lines on a track for you, or brakes for you, or accelerates for you? No doubt a robotic car that does those things would set faster lap times than a conventional car, and so is technically superior, and it would remove the "stress" of pressing a clutch, changing gear, steering, pressing the accelerator etc, but surely people can see it would be less involving?
Where is the threshold at which technology, takes away from the driving experience?
does it not steer the rear wheels to help get the car round a corner and does it not brake the rear wheels also with no user input.
technology makes people with less skill lap faster, or even to a point allows people to even drive at all hence the auto only test for people who cannot even do 2 things at once.
PorscheGT4 said:
I thought the 991 GT3 did brake for you and did steer for you these days.
does it not steer the rear wheels to help get the car round a corner and does it not brake the rear wheels also with no user input.
technology makes people with less skill lap faster, or even to a point allows people to even drive at all hence the auto only test for people who cannot even do 2 things at once.
Personally, that didn't detract from the driving experience for me as a road user. And in most road situations you wouldn't even feel it, unlike not having a manual shift. I don't think we can dismiss comments attributed to AP, Harris' comments, EVO comments re drivers' cars vs technologically better cars. There is a clear dichotomy developing.does it not steer the rear wheels to help get the car round a corner and does it not brake the rear wheels also with no user input.
technology makes people with less skill lap faster, or even to a point allows people to even drive at all hence the auto only test for people who cannot even do 2 things at once.
FrankCayman said:
OT...but how come you drive so many different cars? Are you in the trade/car journo??
I hope you don't mind me asking!
not difficult,Im not in the trade or a journo,since september last year Ive driven the entire 991 range bar the gt3,a few cayennes,5 series ,audi a6 avant,the entire amg range,Aston v12vs,3 rs6's,jaguar xkr,and had to due to holiday turn down the chance to test drive the lambo range and the full aston range.The magic ingredient is I ring up and ask if they have a car to test drive. (The aston and lambo invites are from being a former/current owner.) But generally a polite phone call does the job.I hope you don't mind me asking!
isaldiri said:
av185 said:
Shorter and firmer paddle throw, quicker and more aggressive change, non creep, 'manuel' means 'manuel' with no auto kickdown override facility.
just how is that 'totally different'...? it's 'slightly different'.... that's all. not the 2nd coming.Strange also that in previous posts on GT4 spec threads etc, many were dreaming of and insisting the car had to have a motorsport engine and PDK S gearbox like the 'bespoke' GT3.....otherwise they weren' t interested in such a humdrum car........
:From what I understand, predominantly the electronics are different, nothing too spectacular for the mechanical components? The standard PDK, for instance, 'feathers' the (1/3/5/7 gear) clutch on take off, to give a 'more natural' feel. That can easily be engineered to stop the drag at standstill. Reversing the order of the stick +\- activation is quite simple, as is altering the paddle switch travel, to feel 'more sporty'. Not too sure how they increase the 'shift times', but maybe it is down to hydraulic pressure? Either way, I take the point that PDK-S is more like PDK, than it is like a manual, but then, it is well recorded, that I know less than f
k all?
k all?For all those who prefer manuals and say they feel more "connected" to the car - I take the exact opposite view; with a PDK I keep both my hands on the steering wheel where they belong, my left leg is relaxed and I'm much more focused on steering the car to place the nose exactly where I want on the apex etc. I can still use throttle control and ultimately it's a much safer way to travel quickly through twisty hilly roads, which I assume is why most people buy these cars.
And yes I have 25 years experience of driving manuals but accept the fact that technology has improved the driving experience and made them safer.
I test drove a manual Boxster S before ordering my GTS with PDK, and the PDK is a much better experience for me. The good thing is, we all have a choice
And yes I have 25 years experience of driving manuals but accept the fact that technology has improved the driving experience and made them safer.
I test drove a manual Boxster S before ordering my GTS with PDK, and the PDK is a much better experience for me. The good thing is, we all have a choice
PDK-S in the gt3 is the best gearbox of its type I have used to date. Big step up from the regular PDK, regardless of what they have done mechanically or software wise the whole package works very well. Most commentors have probably never even driven one, and I defy anyone not to be blown away by their first experience of pulling the paddle at 9k rpm. That in itself is one of the single best experiences I've ever had in any car. Try it, once you do, you won't be wanting a manual. Maybe its different in a gt4 as the engine is a totally different proposition, but in the gt3 PDK works.
I find it odd that people who are pro PDK always say they cannot steer or hit an apex, so again it's a lack of skill thing it seems. It's good there is a choice for people who have issues driving a manual and an auto makes them feel safe.
I know people atm who are having to take the auto test as driving a manual is just to much for them.
As I said the choice allows people who are scared and feel unsafe to own and drive an auto giving them their freedom.
I know people atm who are having to take the auto test as driving a manual is just to much for them.
As I said the choice allows people who are scared and feel unsafe to own and drive an auto giving them their freedom.
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Thursday 26th March 08:32
Probably best that we let this one lie and not ruin yet another thread with manual -v- pdk.
For what its worth I too firmly prefer manuals to pdk, but I am willing to accept that others have a different view to me. Both views are correct and both are better to the people who prefer each, so its a pointless debate and one that neither side can ever "win".
For what its worth I too firmly prefer manuals to pdk, but I am willing to accept that others have a different view to me. Both views are correct and both are better to the people who prefer each, so its a pointless debate and one that neither side can ever "win".
79TurboS said:
PDK-S in the gt3 is the best gearbox of its type I have used to date. Big step up from the regular PDK, regardless of what they have done mechanically or software wise the whole package works very well. Most commentors have probably never even driven one, and I defy anyone not to be blown away by their first experience of pulling the paddle at 9k rpm. That in itself is one of the single best experiences I've ever had in any car. Try it, once you do, you won't be wanting a manual. Maybe its different in a gt4 as the engine is a totally different proposition, but in the gt3 PDK works.
so it works on a gt3 for 180 owners, does that mean it's crap on the other 6000 cars porsche sell in the UK with normal PDK.People talk about Automatics and then make a big issue that the GT3 auto box is better.
But I find most pro automatic drivers only own standard PDK.
I bet the gp2 is more fun really :-)
I am really happy that the gt4 is manual as if they did offer PDK-s option then I would have chosen it as I have other manual cars.
If it was going to be PDK as the option then it was a full no go for me.
PorscheGT4 said:
I find it odd that people who are pro PDK always say they cannot steer or hit an apex, so again it's a lack of skill thing it seems.
They don't.I find it odd that those that don't like PDK seem to feel they have to claim that people who don't prefer manuals are somehow inferior drivers...
PorscheGT4 said:
It's good there is a choice for people who have issues driving a manual and an auto makes them feel safe.
Most don't.PorscheGT4 said:
I know people atm who are having to take the auto test as driving a manual is just to much for them.
I'm sure you do - I doubt very much that they are the people buying GT3's, so it's a stupid argument.PorscheGT4 said:
As I said the choice allows people who are scared and feel unsafe to own and drive an auto giving them their freedom.
Indeed, but totally irrelevant for this discussion.All valid points though, and I only quoting what people say here .
most DO say, it allows them to be able to steer the car and hit the apex ! (that's NOT me saying it, but I see that time and time again by OWNERS"
which does imply in a manual, they could not get round a bend very well before !
As for the "GT3 does not count" in any automatic threads seems daft, it is what it is, an automatic, if one likes it because it aids faster lap times then one buys one.
If you want move interaction and still want a GT3 one buys a 997.2 RS, you can swap between the 2 these days they are the same price.
It did not float my boat, I could have had a GT3, was offered one 3 times at list price, I just did not fancy an automatic how ever good it was.
I think it looks great, it's amazingly fast, the PDK-S is the best yet, high resale investment, but there has to be a want to own one which for me was lacking.
I could have kept my GT3 for an investment and made 30k on it very fast, but cars to me are not investments, if I don't want to drive it then it gets sold on.
If people love driving 991 GT3 that's great if people love driving the new manual GT4 that's great, if people can own both that's lucky and great.
seems the market is big for both as the GT3 and the GT4 both sold out in the UK.
and last is NOT "but totally irrelevant for this discussion." daft on a GT4 thread which is manual only car how PDK can even be talked about ?
cardigankid seems to have started a PDK point ! AV185 then talks about PDK-s and then as always any PDK vs manaul goes tits up as cmoose gets started lol
so that's from page 6 after that it's all bks anyway and not even worth looking at the thread bar if you want a laugh and some banter over a coffee break ;-)
we all love a chat about it once started lol
most DO say, it allows them to be able to steer the car and hit the apex ! (that's NOT me saying it, but I see that time and time again by OWNERS"
which does imply in a manual, they could not get round a bend very well before !
As for the "GT3 does not count" in any automatic threads seems daft, it is what it is, an automatic, if one likes it because it aids faster lap times then one buys one.
If you want move interaction and still want a GT3 one buys a 997.2 RS, you can swap between the 2 these days they are the same price.
It did not float my boat, I could have had a GT3, was offered one 3 times at list price, I just did not fancy an automatic how ever good it was.
I think it looks great, it's amazingly fast, the PDK-S is the best yet, high resale investment, but there has to be a want to own one which for me was lacking.
I could have kept my GT3 for an investment and made 30k on it very fast, but cars to me are not investments, if I don't want to drive it then it gets sold on.
If people love driving 991 GT3 that's great if people love driving the new manual GT4 that's great, if people can own both that's lucky and great.
seems the market is big for both as the GT3 and the GT4 both sold out in the UK.
and last is NOT "but totally irrelevant for this discussion." daft on a GT4 thread which is manual only car how PDK can even be talked about ?
cardigankid seems to have started a PDK point ! AV185 then talks about PDK-s and then as always any PDK vs manaul goes tits up as cmoose gets started lol
so that's from page 6 after that it's all b
ks anyway and not even worth looking at the thread bar if you want a laugh and some banter over a coffee break ;-)we all love a chat about it once started lol
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Thursday 26th March 10:23
I repeat - if the PDK-S was so awesome and so different from the standard one, it would have been included in the 918 which is the true standard of no expense spared engineering excellence in the entire range and..... it's running some form of the 'inferior' pdk not this 'completely different and best thing ever' pdk-s. Draw your own conclusions from that....
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