718 sound...

[pete.g]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It is a fact that the 718 has more direct steering; 12.37:1 - 16.5:1 for a 981; 12.25;1-15.02:1 variable for a 718 (a system taken from the 991 Turbo, a car which costs £127,000). A logical argument (syllogism) would be that fitting the system of a £127,000 car to a £50,000 car could be considered an improvement; HOWEVER,
in the absence of empirical evidence I will have to reserve my judgement on whether this is so, and although it is generally accepted that a quicker steering rack may have a positive effect on a car's handling, it is not acceptable to make this assumption within current error parameters applying to Pistonheads forums.


It is a fact that the 718 has 330mm front discs whilst a 981 . . .

Slow afternoon at work, but I'll leave it at that.

[bcr5784]

The antipathy that many seem to express about the flat torque curves that turbos produce is quite beyond me. There are (NA) bike engines which produce substantially flat (much more linear than a 98x) torque curves all the way from 2500 to over 10000 rpm and I've never heard any road tester complain about the low or mid range grunt. Holes in torque curves are deficiencies that engine designers have been trying to engineer out for as long as I can remember.

And a roadtest which is very positive - Autoexpress. "Porsche has hit the bullseye once again. There's no denying that the 718 Boxster doesn't have the ultimate character of the old flat six, but the massive increases in performance and useful fuel efficiency gains make this a price worth paying". They also say "the engine still has an appetite for revs and will eagerly spin all the way to the 7500rpm red line." 5 stars.

That test was of a manual.

[pete.g]

4 is less than 6. (cylinders)

315 is less than 350 (horsepower)

I know - they're the wrong kind of horsepower.

As for bias - my initial post was to point out the level of criticism for a car as yet undriven. I mentioned 'improvements' (now in inverted commas in keeping with my previous post) to make the point that there may be some good in it.

You're wound up like a grandfather clock about the whole thing - maybe take the dog for a walk?

[otolith]

bcr5784 said:

"the 718 Boxster doesn't have the ultimate character of the old flat six, but the massive increases in performance and useful fuel efficiency gains make this a price worth paying".

That matter of opinion is really the crux of the matter - depends where your priorities are. The fuel efficiency savings may be less marked in actual use, and the old car was hardly slow.

[DJMC]

bcr5784 said:

And a roadtest which is very positive - Autoexpress. "Porsche has hit the bullseye once again. There's no denying that the 718 Boxster doesn't have the ultimate character of the old flat six, but the massive increases in performance and useful fuel efficiency gains make this a price worth paying". They also say "the engine still has an appetite for revs and will eagerly spin all the way to the 7500rpm red line." 5 stars.

That test was of a manual.

The following clips sum up the Autocar review. Listen to just 10 seconds after the start of each...

https://youtu.be/kon9hlFts94?t=193

https://youtu.be/kon9hlFts94?t=252

https://youtu.be/kon9hlFts94?t=334

[pete.g]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I did suggest some people should get over themselves if that's what you mean.

Nothing that's happened since has altered my view that that would be a good thing.

For example: 'Such is the typical discourse on PH''

It is so good of you to look down from the lofty intellectual height you've reached and share your wisdom, discernment and experience with the rest of us. And so often as well.

[ags11]

Granted none of us have driven one, & no doubt it has been improved in many areas- but do they make it more desirable as a driver's sports car? I have a turbo diesel for everyday use & it's great for what I want it for.
60k for an S is a huge chunk of cash- for me anyway. I just can't see me paying that for a 4 cylinder, it just wouldn't sit well- besides power delivery etc, a 6 is just "nicer".
Compare the Evo video in Majorca (farting noises excluded)....I mean who in their right mind would trade their S/GTS for a 718.
In all seriousness if I wanted a new 2 seater convertible I think I'd be happier with an MX5 & save 25k on the 2 litre 718 - & for what it's worth I haven't driven an MX5 either!! A basic 2.7 NA 6 manual Boxster at circa 40k would have got my cash- probably all the car anyone needs.

[pete.g]

ags11 said:

Granted none of us have driven one, & no doubt it has been improved in many areas- but do they make it more desirable as a driver's sports car? I have a turbo diesel for everyday use & it's great for what I want it for.
60k for an S is a huge chunk of cash- for me anyway. I just can't see me paying that for a 4 cylinder, it just wouldn't sit well- besides power delivery etc, a 6 is just "nicer".
Compare the Evo video in Majorca (farting noises excluded)....I mean who in their right mind would trade their S/GTS for a 718.
In all seriousness if I wanted a new 2 seater convertible I think I'd be happier with an MX5 & save 25k on the 2 litre 718 - & for what it's worth I haven't driven an MX5 either!! A basic 2.7 NA 6 manual Boxster at circa 40k would have got my cash- probably all the car anyone needs.

That's why I was thinking of the M2 - if you look at the specs there's very little you need to add, compared to Porsche's expensive options. The one doing the initial press drives is a £68k manual!

I also like the look of the new MX5 RF.

Going to look at an M2 this week, though it will be 2017 before I could get one.

[bcr5784]

DJMC said:

The following clips sum up the Autocar review. Listen to just 10 seconds after the start of each...

https://youtu.be/kon9hlFts94?t=193

https://youtu.be/kon9hlFts94?t=252

https://youtu.be/kon9hlFts94?t=334

Accepting that is their view - and quite a common one, the point is:

1) I absolutely abhor the sports exhaust on the current cars.
2) I'd always prefer a coupe to a convertible - so induction noise is far more important to me than exhaust.

So those comments are of relative minor import to me (though they will weigh heavily with some).

I'll reserve my own view until I have tried the car myself.

[truck71]

DJMC said:

The following clips sum up the Autocar review. Listen to just 10 seconds after the start of each...

https://youtu.be/kon9hlFts94?t=193

https://youtu.be/kon9hlFts94?t=252

https://youtu.be/kon9hlFts94?t=334

I think that's the worst yet, it's like the big ends have gone and the sound is being amplified via a sports exhaust. It's now a 35k car, nothing more.

[ags11]

pete.g said:

That's why I was thinking of the M2 - if you look at the specs there's very little you need to add, compared to Porsche's expensive options. The one doing the initial press drives is a £68k manual!

I also like the look of the new MX5 RF.

Going to look at an M2 this week, though it will be 2017 before I could get one.

The M2/718 will be an interesting comparison. If you need the seats, there's nothing to touch it, hand on heart I probably do!
On past performance the Porsche would be the more precise car, if that's still the case it'll be interesting to see if the 6 cylinder swings it for BMW.
The M2 as a one stop car on paper looks hard to beat. I've driven an M135, it has a stonking engine, just the steering etc was woolly compared to my 987, but for a practical car, looks aside- I kind of was attracted to the ugliness, as a compromise if it is one, the BMW could be the car.

[ags11]

Off topic again, but a 997 gen 2 would be another choice. I think that's the problem for Porsche concerning potential "enthusiast" purchasers of the 718, the 4 cyclinder is going to create hesitation & make them consider their options in a way they never did before.

[pete.g]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think I've worked it out - because of all this fuss anyone entering 'Porsche' along with terms such as 'boring' dull' 'monotonous droning' into a search engine will end up reading a review of a 718's exhaust note, whereas before it would have led to some of your work, so you're a bit cheesed off.

From now on I will emulate the exhaust note of a Tesla on your dogmatic proclamations, though I may continue with the self- serving hypocrisy, even if it does mean straying into your personal forum now and then.

My apologies to other forum users for this sideshow I instigated.

[duder13]

Several 718 reviews have come up in the last few days, and most say the car is improved in many ways, but it has a Suburu-sounding and uninspiring engine. I don't want to upgrade my 987 to a 981 partly because of the steering, so I can't imagine wanting to trade in my 987 for a electric steering and a turbo-4.

[Klippie]

Top Gear review of the 718...

http://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/718-boxster-s-2...

[Porsche911R]

duder13 said:

Several 718 reviews have come up in the last few days, and most say the car is improved in many ways, but it has a Suburu-sounding and uninspiring engine. I don't want to upgrade my 987 to a 981 partly because of the steering, so I can't imagine wanting to trade in my 987 for a electric steering and a turbo-4.

I agree just bought another 987.2 Cayman myself, the 981 and 718 hold zero interest may as well save £25k and buy an Audi imo. the standard 981 Steering is shocking poor.

[ras62]

When was the last time a new Porsche was so poorly received? I've not seen 5 stars awarded in any test so far. Can the Porsche badge justify a little four pot costing over £60k with a few options? A 4* car with 5* pricing.

[DJMC]

Porsche911R said:

I agree just bought another 987.2 Cayman myself, the 981 and 718 hold zero interest may as well save £25k and buy an Audi imo. the standard 981 Steering is shocking poor.

The standard 981 steering is very good. Having driven a couple of 987.2's, admittedly only on test drives, I can't tell the difference.

Perhaps similarly you have driven the 981 for a short while too and been led by other's opinions on the subject? I'll admit most reviews say it's not up to the hydraulic steering of the 987 but to say it's "shocking" is an overstatement surely?

The 981 has way better steering than my 2012 TTS, especially since I ditched the P Zeros in favour of GY F1 A2s.

[finestjammy]

DJMC said:

The standard 981 steering is very good. Having driven a couple of 987.2's, admittedly only on test drives, I can't tell the difference.

Perhaps similarly you have driven the 981 for a short while too and been led by other's opinions on the subject? I'll admit most reviews say it's not up to the hydraulic steering of the 987 but to say it's "shocking" is an overstatement surely?

The 981 has way better steering than my 2012 TTS, especially since I ditched the P Zeros in favour of GY F1 A2s.

I have a 987.2 S and have driven a 981 for a few days whilst some warranty work was being completed. I agree, the 981 steering is far from 'shocking'. It's nicely weighted and very responsive. You don't get the feedback of the 987.2 though. Some people will prefer the 981 steering though as it irons out the bumps more and won't writhe in your hand as much as the 987.2. I love the steering on mine, but the 981 setup wouldn't put me off buying one. A four pot turbo, now that's an entirely different thread

[Porsche911R]

DJMC said:

The standard 981 steering is very good. Having driven a couple of 987.2's, admittedly only on test drives, I can't tell the difference.

Perhaps similarly you have driven the 981 for a short while too and been led by other's opinions on the subject? I'll admit most reviews say it's not up to the hydraulic steering of the 987 but to say it's "shocking" is an overstatement surely?

The 981 has way better steering than my 2012 TTS, especially since I ditched the P Zeros in favour of GY F1 A2s.

I want to like it as I wanted a Boxster 981 for a daily, and borrowed yet another one for 1/2 a day,(must be my 10th drive now) I could not live with the steering and I really wanted to think it was just a bad memory, but it's unforgivable lol.

the GY F1 A are a nice tyre have them on my new R as it happens was a nice surprise as I would have thrown the P zeros away the same day !!! really enjoying how the F1 are working.

every one knows what they like and if I bought a normal 981 it would last 3 months at best before it board me to death !

As others have said, the 718 is now a bigger car than the 987.2, it has electric steering and now a 4 pot, it's hold zero interest to me at the new price point.