Cayman GTS 981 - don't really like it.

[ATM]

jakesmith said:

CastroSays said:

I guess you're happy that a woman coming along there pushing a pram, perhaps with another toddler in tow has to walk on the street.
Or a wheelchair user......

Moronic parking.

Wtf!? This is a car forum

Moronic post more like. I'm not sure if I should even try to explain how its a cul-de-sac in a secluded location with no dwellings opposite the staged car positions and only 3 more into the dead end. None of which house any disabled people although obviously one could jump out of the wood work at any moment. Most pedestrians use the completely empty pavement opposite because it naturally follows the inside curve of the cul-de-sac better or just walk down the middle of the road because no cars race down there as it's a dead end and goes nowhere. So please kill me as I'm arrogant and irresponsible. Rude and inconsiderate enough to positions 2 cars for a couple of pictures and then post them on the internet in a car forum without a thorough traffic flow diagram.

[Porsche911R]

bcr5784 said:

Porsche911R said:

Always on but uses different % of the shock damping. Hence the DSC works for a few people as it uses 100% of the shock all the time.

off say 20 to 60% on say 50 to 90% don't quote me I made that up but it's works like that. On don't really work imo.

Could you explain that in English? PASM, depending on mode AND speed/G sensing PASM uses damping from settings that are MUCH softer than either X73 or standard to settings that are much harder than standard and (probably) harder than X73.

not sure what you do not understand.

PASM is always on, but does not use the full range of the damping, when off it prob goes no harder that 60%, when on, say it does not go lower than 50% if you hit a pot hole with it on you know about it. I have the figures some where but cannot find them.

A DSC module uses 100% of the damping range 100% of the time.

[bcr5784]

Porsche911R said:

not sure what you do not understand.

PASM is always on, but does not use the full range of the damping, when off it prob goes no harder that 60%, when on, say it does not go lower than 50% if you hit a pot hole with it on you know about it. I have the figures some where but cannot find them.

A DSC module uses 100% of the damping range 100% of the time.

I didn't understand your explanation - had you added maximum stiffness and minimum stiffness of the damper unit it would have been clearer. If you read my previous post you would know I understand how it works.

I was taking issue with your statement that X73 lies between normal and sport settings of PASM - it doesn't it's stiffer than either. Whether you" know all about it" when hitting a pothole in sport very much depends on what setting the control unit (in response to its G sensors) has decided to set the damper. Hitting a pothole at town speeds, even in sport, will be considerably less dramatic than with X73 since both the spring rate and damping will be softer.

Using the whole of the damping range all the time seems like a bad idea to me, The one issue I have with PASM (and it is inevitable) is that in Normal it softens the damping off so much when cruising that in a sudden change of direction (say overtaking) the car feels floaty for a second until the damping stiffens up. That is easy to avoid if you have a sport mode which starts much stiffer - impossible if you haven't.

Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 1st August 08:54

[DJMC]

I only tend to switch PASM to "Sport Chassis" to control body undulations at high speed.

Of course if you leave it in "Normal Chassis" mode it will still change to "Sport" on its own if it senses you are pressing on.

Likewise, forget to switch out of "Sport" and it will offer a softer ride if it senses you are pootling around.

[James McScotty]

alltalk said:

I'd always wanted a Porsche so when the time was right I read every article and decided a Cayman 981 GTS was for me - went for a test drive thought yes this is it ...

So I've now had a PDK, 981, with 13k of options for a year and not really that fussed about driving it. Prefer my wife's Mini Cooper S, The 981 makes a great noise but you have to push the revs to get there.

So thinking of making a change maybe the new 911T manual as I quite like the turbo feel (aware of all the haters but you can't tell me what I like and don't like).

Would that work other options ?

Also what's my Silver 981 worth 2014, 22k miles PDK with carbon/cruise/heated seat/dab/xenon/climate/ alcantara in gts pack silver etc. just had major service one original owner plus me supplied and serviced by same OPC - immaculate.

alltalk.

Well, there's certainly no accounting for taste!

https://www.motortrend.com/news/find-out-if-the-po...

[Porsche911R]

bcr5784 said:

I was taking issue with your statement that X73 lies between normal and sport settings of PASM - it doesn't it's stiffer than either. Whether you" know all about it" when hitting a pothole in sport very much depends on what setting the control unit (in response to its G sensors) has decided to set the damper. Hitting a pothole at town speeds, even in sport, will be considerably less dramatic than with X73 since both the spring rate and damping will be softer.

PASM on in a 981 is harsher hitting a pothole than x73 981. Body roll is less due to stiffer ARB and Springs in the x73 car. Springs just support the car ARB just stop roll. neither really effects hitting a pit hole, that is all to do with rebound in the shock damping in the main.

with PASM on that was my point it cannot go to soft damping due to the range you have chosen and imo PASM on don't really work that well bar snooker table roads or on track.

I have 2 cars I can show you side by side if you wish, but I don't really want to vid both cars going over potholes !!

[bcr5784]

Porsche911R said:

PASM on in a 981 is harsher hitting a pothole than x73 981. Body roll is less due to stiffer ARB and Springs in the x73 car. Springs just support the car ARB just stop roll. neither really effects hitting a pit hole, that is all to do with rebound in the shock damping in the main.

with PASM on that was my point it cannot go to soft damping due to the range you have chosen and imo PASM on don't really work that well bar snooker table roads or on track.

I have 2 cars I can show you side by side if you wish, but I don't really want to vid both cars going over potholes !!

I think we will have to disagree on that. You seem to have missed the point that since X73 is stiffer in both damping as well spring rates at town speeds compared with PASM even in Sport, it's bound to be harsher at those speeds.With 19" wheels Sport is absolutely fine on decent roads (and I hate unnecessarily hard suspension) . What you have said is true of the 987 but not the 981.

Just been out in the car on an errand. Chose the roads with the worst surface I could find (they are BAD) and used PASM Sport (which I wouldn't normally dream of doing) Aimed at any potholes. At modest speed the ride, though naturally more jiggly than I would prefer, really wasn't bad. Put it this way it was a tad BETTER than a 718 I tried recently on standard suspension and 20" wheels. Which is pretty much what you would expect given that the 718 is set up stiffer than the 981.

Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 2nd August 12:20

Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 2nd August 12:38

[Porsche911R]

bcr5784 said:

I think we will have to disagree on that. You seem to have missed the point that since X73 is stiffer in both damping as well spring rates at town speeds compared with PASM even in Sport, it's bound to be harsher at those speeds.With 19" wheels Sport is absolutely fine on decent roads (and I hate unnecessarily hard suspension) . What you have said is true of the 987 but not the 981.

Just been out in the car on an errand. Chose the roads with the worst surface I could find (they are BAD) and used PASM Sport (which I wouldn't normally dream of doing) Aimed at any potholes. At modest speed the ride, though naturally more jiggly than I would prefer, really wasn't bad. Put it this way it was a tad BETTER than a 718 I tried recently on standard suspension and 20" wheels. Which is pretty much what you would expect given that the 718 is set up stiffer than the 981.

you missed the point that PASM on cannot get to the soft damping of the shock.
do the same in a 981 x73, o wait you cannot... as I said it's all to do with rebound how a pot hole feels not really spring rate.

the rides also great with x73 I have 3 cars with x73 in both 987.2 and 981 no jiggle in a X73 car , PASM on is too hard , it is what it is.

[n4aat]

Whilst I don’t want to get in the way of the tech egos hammering away at pointless intricacies “for the win” I would just offer my thoughts.

PASM off tends to get a little ragged when pressing on down twisty roads. It is too soft meaning that sometimes it feels it is still dealing with the last event when you want it front and centre dealing with the next challenge. Switching PASM on gets the suspension standing to attention with much more control. Harsher ride but easier to place the car ‘cause it settles quicker.

That is all.

[JayK12]

The solution to all is to get X73 lol

[Porsche911R]

JayK12 said:

The solution to all is to get X73 lol

I agree for a sports car X73 is bloody good choice.

PASM while active all the time is still too soft off and too hard on.

If PASM were that great Manthy would not ditch it on every car they build and also you would not have tech like the DCS module to do a better job of it.

I never press it on in the GT4 or the GT3 I own, the rides st with it on. Track only setting really. even on the S models it's not nice on imo.

[bcr5784]

Porsche911R said:

you missed the point that PASM on cannot get to the soft damping of the shock.
do the same in a 981 x73, o wait you cannot... as I said it's all to do with rebound how a pot hole feels not really spring rate.

You keep on missing the point that in PASM Sport at modest speeds the damping will STILL be SLIGHTLY SOFTER than standard (non-PASM) cars. For what you say to be true X73 damping would have to be softer again.

Are you really suggesting that X73 uses significantly softer damping than the standard (non-PASM) set up??!!!

Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 2nd August 14:19

Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 2nd August 15:59

[DJMC]

bcr5784 said:

You keep on missing the point that in PASM Sport at modest speeds the damping will STILL be SLIGHTLY SOFTER than standard (non-PASM) cars. For what you say to be true X73 damping would have to be softer again.

Are you really suggesting that X73 uses significantly softer damping than the standard (non-PASM) set up??!!!

+1

You are quite correct, PASM in Normal is softer than Standard, which is in turn softer than PASM in Sport.

"Depending­ on­ the­ mode ­selected,­ PASM­ can­ be­ sportier­ or­ more­ comfortable­ than­ the­ standard­ chassis."

From the brochure:

[gtsralph]

TDT said:

There are people using it on 9x1, and I know of 1X GT4 in the UK that has it running.
But yeah it probably has greater benefit on 9x7.

I have been running DSC for two years on my 3.8 Cayman S which has fully adjustable suspension by Centre Gravity. DSC does react faster (c 6ms) to sensor inputs than PASM (which I understand is c 100 ms). However Bilstein dampers generally react to inputs around 100 ms and cannot react mid stroke. The range of stiffness for Bilstein dampers is often quoted as 1500ms to 500ms but the actual range is 1500ms to effectively zero ms. If you run DSC mapping calling for >1500ms you can overheat the dampers, running below 500ms does not cause overheating. Best value with DSC is to install electronic dampers that react faster and mid-stroke - I went with coilover Damptronics and a year later discovered DSC.

Typical DSC mapping will set a damper range from 1500ms to 500ms for non-sport and 1300 to 350ms for sport. DSC will set the dampers' ms values depending on the mapping for G forces, Cambus braking force and other factors. I tried out over 25 maps before ending up with the one I now use.

I have no understanding of the equivalent PASM operations.

Getting away from thread focus but hopefully helpful comments re DSC.

[bcr5784]

gtsralph said:

I have been running DSC for two years on my 3.8 Cayman S which has fully adjustable suspension by Centre Gravity. DSC does react faster (c 6ms) to sensor inputs than PASM (which I understand is c 100 ms). However Bilstein dampers generally react to inputs around 100 ms and cannot react mid stroke. The range of stiffness for Bilstein dampers is often quoted as 1500ms to 500ms but the actual range is 1500ms to effectively zero ms. If you run DSC mapping calling for >1500ms you can overheat the dampers, running below 500ms does not cause overheating. Best value with DSC is to install electronic dampers that react faster and mid-stroke - I went with coilover Damptronics and a year later discovered DSC.

Typical DSC mapping will set a damper range from 1500ms to 500ms for non-sport and 1300 to 350ms for sport. DSC will set the dampers' ms values depending on the mapping for G forces, Cambus braking force and other factors. I tried out over 25 maps before ending up with the one I now use.

I have no understanding of the equivalent PASM operations.

Getting away from thread focus but hopefully helpful comments re DSC.

Interesting stuff. Looks like DSC settings give much more overlap between Normal and Sport settings. With 981 PASM the stiffest setting in Normal is not very much stiffer than the softest setting in Sport (which has a much more restricted range than Normal) . The graphs I have seen for PASM don't give actual damper stiffness only an indication of the relative stiffness (and a pictorial representation of the range) of the two modes and how that compares with the non-PASM damping.
of

[James McScotty]

Porsche911R said:

.

PASM while active all the time is still too soft off and too hard on.

Not in my opinion. In normal it's perfect for most of our broken UK roads, but find a good surface, and Sport PASM is great for that.

[Twinfan]

James McScotty said:

Not in my opinion. In normal it's perfect for most of our broken UK roads, but find a good surface, and Sport PASM is great for that.

Agreed.

[zainster]

Twinfan said:

James McScotty said:

Not in my opinion. In normal it's perfect for most of our broken UK roads, but find a good surface, and Sport PASM is great for that.

Agreed.

+2
Spot on!

[bcr5784]

zainster said:

+2
Spot on!

+3 - there may be the odd disenting 981 PASM owner voice, but I suspect they will be very thin on the ground.

[jonttt]

Porsche PASM is one of the best OEM suspension setups for a UK road car period, its one area Porsche are ahead of the field.