Possible 987 Cayman S purchase - advice and help please
Discussion
Tubes89 said:
Fl0pp3r said:
Don't think you'll be getting into a gen2 Cayman for £25k, will you?
Personally I don't, but others seem to think so.
So I went up to look at the car at the weekend, more so out of curiosity than anything as I also planned to go have a look at a M135i and a M235i as a comparison (completely different cars I know).
Having got there, the car was better in the flesh than the pictures let on. After a good prod round and a drive out I was really impressed, the car wdrove really well and I liked it. We decided to talk figures and they offered more for my e92 oil burner than I expected so it led to deeper conversations, as contrary to opinions in here, in the current market i dont think the cars a bad price after what we discussed.
Now the brakes didn't scare me, they seemed in great condition and I was really impressed at the pedal feel (though admittedly it's been two years since i drove a regular Cayman).
However, it's the borescoring issue and whilst they were offering a 1 year warranty I told them that I would want the car inspected. The dealer got a bit defensive and I'm not sure if it was because he was convinced i was going to buy it and was disappointed by my stance or whether his reaction was worried about I might find. Being stubborn as I am I shut down the conversation pretty much there and then and left.
So the question is.... Is a PPI worth while? And who to go to? The car is in Carlisle and everyone wants the car taking to them. The dealer won't budge unless I put down a non refundable deposit which is understabdable. I'm still not 100% sure if it's the right thing but I have an itch to scratch.
Having got there, the car was better in the flesh than the pictures let on. After a good prod round and a drive out I was really impressed, the car wdrove really well and I liked it. We decided to talk figures and they offered more for my e92 oil burner than I expected so it led to deeper conversations, as contrary to opinions in here, in the current market i dont think the cars a bad price after what we discussed.
Now the brakes didn't scare me, they seemed in great condition and I was really impressed at the pedal feel (though admittedly it's been two years since i drove a regular Cayman).
However, it's the borescoring issue and whilst they were offering a 1 year warranty I told them that I would want the car inspected. The dealer got a bit defensive and I'm not sure if it was because he was convinced i was going to buy it and was disappointed by my stance or whether his reaction was worried about I might find. Being stubborn as I am I shut down the conversation pretty much there and then and left.
So the question is.... Is a PPI worth while? And who to go to? The car is in Carlisle and everyone wants the car taking to them. The dealer won't budge unless I put down a non refundable deposit which is understabdable. I'm still not 100% sure if it's the right thing but I have an itch to scratch.
Edited by Tubes89 on Monday 3rd August 22:14
If you're that worried about the bore-scoring issue (which nothing but a Porsche warranty or specialist maintenance plan is likely to cover), which is also a tad over-hyped by a select few peddling it about, then i'd tell Mr David Hayton that his car is overpriced and take your £24k and buy yourself a gen2 cayman and sleep at night.
If you like the admittedly very high spec of that particular car which I can understand is tempting then take the risk, get a quote for a worst case scenario from a well reputed specialist buy it and take the risk of something very rare albeit a bit expensive happening. You might want to speak with Hartech about their maintenance plan and their experience of the bore-scoring issues and see what they say about how you can protect yourself.
But all that aside that car is way overpriced IMO - you're paying about a £10K premium for the trinkets on it, and you'll lose a lot of money on it and face the difficulty of one day selling a car that the internet has already half ruined from stupid scare mongering stories.
I have to agree with Moose, buy a decent a £15k Cayman S (plenty of decent ones around at that kind of price) and stick the £10k in the bank for the best warranty you could ever hope for, chances are you'll never need it and your experience will be no less diluted from not having PCCB etc I can assure you.
If you like the admittedly very high spec of that particular car which I can understand is tempting then take the risk, get a quote for a worst case scenario from a well reputed specialist buy it and take the risk of something very rare albeit a bit expensive happening. You might want to speak with Hartech about their maintenance plan and their experience of the bore-scoring issues and see what they say about how you can protect yourself.
But all that aside that car is way overpriced IMO - you're paying about a £10K premium for the trinkets on it, and you'll lose a lot of money on it and face the difficulty of one day selling a car that the internet has already half ruined from stupid scare mongering stories.
I have to agree with Moose, buy a decent a £15k Cayman S (plenty of decent ones around at that kind of price) and stick the £10k in the bank for the best warranty you could ever hope for, chances are you'll never need it and your experience will be no less diluted from not having PCCB etc I can assure you.
Edited by Beanoir on Monday 3rd August 23:12
Cheers gents.
Hartech are going to be calling back ref warrenty today, as even an untrained eye like mine looking through the T&Cs I was aware that it wasn't going to cover the common issues.
I wouldn't get too caught up in the price the car is for sale. Though it's still north of £20k
I've hunted high and low for the last week all over trader, piston heads, specialist dealer pages and it appears that the car is priced well given it spec, age and mileage. I would love someone to prove me wrong (because it will save me money!!) but it appears to be accurate. You cant get a gen2 car for sub 28k, if you want to pay less than early twenties it's going to have been to the moon and back or it's an early car at base spec (which is naturally going to be worth less to trade it). It's as surprising for me that cars I was looking at 18 months ago are the same price today.
Hartech are going to be calling back ref warrenty today, as even an untrained eye like mine looking through the T&Cs I was aware that it wasn't going to cover the common issues.
I wouldn't get too caught up in the price the car is for sale. Though it's still north of £20k
I've hunted high and low for the last week all over trader, piston heads, specialist dealer pages and it appears that the car is priced well given it spec, age and mileage. I would love someone to prove me wrong (because it will save me money!!) but it appears to be accurate. You cant get a gen2 car for sub 28k, if you want to pay less than early twenties it's going to have been to the moon and back or it's an early car at base spec (which is naturally going to be worth less to trade it). It's as surprising for me that cars I was looking at 18 months ago are the same price today.
Edited by Tubes89 on Tuesday 4th August 06:25
Tubes89 said:
Cheers gents.
Hartech are going to be calling back ref warrenty today, as even an untrained eye like mine looking through the T&Cs I was aware that it wasn't going to cover the common issues.
I wouldn't get too caught up in the price the car is for sale. Though it's still north of £20k
I've hunted high and low for the last week all over trader, piston heads, specialist dealer pages and it appears that the car is priced well given it spec, age and mileage. I would love someone to prove me wrong (because it will save me money!!) but it appears to be accurate. You cant get a gen2 car for sub 28k, if you want to pay less than early twenties it's going to have been to the moon and back or it's an early car at base spec (which is naturally going to be worth less to trade it). It's as surprising for me that cars I was looking at 18 months ago are the same price today.
In pretty much the same place as you right now. Have decided that a Cayman S is probably the way to go after some great times with my TVR Chim 500 (which incidentally I bought from the dealer who is selling your Cayman).Hartech are going to be calling back ref warrenty today, as even an untrained eye like mine looking through the T&Cs I was aware that it wasn't going to cover the common issues.
I wouldn't get too caught up in the price the car is for sale. Though it's still north of £20k
I've hunted high and low for the last week all over trader, piston heads, specialist dealer pages and it appears that the car is priced well given it spec, age and mileage. I would love someone to prove me wrong (because it will save me money!!) but it appears to be accurate. You cant get a gen2 car for sub 28k, if you want to pay less than early twenties it's going to have been to the moon and back or it's an early car at base spec (which is naturally going to be worth less to trade it). It's as surprising for me that cars I was looking at 18 months ago are the same price today.
Edited by Tubes89 on Tuesday 4th August 06:25
Like you I'm nervy about the Gen 1 engine issues and for this reason the Gen 2 cars are very tempting - except that as you say there is really nothing out there at the moment around the 25k mark that is anything other than silver (boring for me) and with totally base spec.
I suspect we may both suffer from he same issue - namely a lack of patience! I'm sure the ideal car will come up in time but hey, once you have decided what you want you never want to wait too long for it right?
Of course the other big issue is that in a few years' time who is going to by a Gen 1 CS when for only a little more they can get in to a decent Gen 2 car? I suspect that as the Gen 2 prices start to fall - and they will - then the Gen 1 prices will suffer badly. Actually this is already the case it is just that it is all happening a little north of my preferred budget just now.
Not 100% sure I want to be saddled with a Gen 1 CS in that scenario since it will be hard to get a decent price for it, but then neither a Gen 1 or Gen 2 CS is ever going to be an appreciating asset.
One question to all of you experts. Is there ANYTHING that is better on the Gen 1 CS than on the Gen 2? I did read somewhere that the engine was perhaps a fraction more involving and aurally rewarding - but other than that it seems the Gen 2 CS wins in pretty much every department.
If there were some real and important advantages the Gen 1 over the Gen 2 (steering feel or something) then buying a Gen 1 might make more sense but I'm not sure there is much in this case.
Views folks?
TorqueDirty said:
In pretty much the same place as you right now. Have decided that a Cayman S is probably the way to go after some great times with my TVR Chim 500 (which incidentally I bought from the dealer who is selling your Cayman).
Like you I'm nervy about the Gen 1 engine issues and for this reason the Gen 2 cars are very tempting - except that as you say there is really nothing out there at the moment around the 25k mark that is anything other than silver (boring for me) and with totally base spec.
I suspect we may both suffer from he same issue - namely a lack of patience! I'm sure the ideal car will come up in time but hey, once you have decided what you want you never want to wait too long for it right?
Of course the other big issue is that in a few years' time who is going to by a Gen 1 CS when for only a little more they can get in to a decent Gen 2 car? I suspect that as the Gen 2 prices start to fall - and they will - then the Gen 1 prices will suffer badly. Actually this is already the case it is just that it is all happening a little north of my preferred budget just now.
Not 100% sure I want to be saddled with a Gen 1 CS in that scenario since it will be hard to get a decent price for it, but then neither a Gen 1 or Gen 2 CS is ever going to be an appreciating asset.
One question to all of you experts. Is there ANYTHING that is better on the Gen 1 CS than on the Gen 2? I did read somewhere that the engine was perhaps a fraction more involving and aurally rewarding - but other than that it seems the Gen 2 CS wins in pretty much every department.
If there were some real and important advantages the Gen 1 over the Gen 2 (steering feel or something) then buying a Gen 1 might make more sense but I'm not sure there is much in this case.
Views folks?
Gen 1 is cheaper...that's about it. Like you I'm nervy about the Gen 1 engine issues and for this reason the Gen 2 cars are very tempting - except that as you say there is really nothing out there at the moment around the 25k mark that is anything other than silver (boring for me) and with totally base spec.
I suspect we may both suffer from he same issue - namely a lack of patience! I'm sure the ideal car will come up in time but hey, once you have decided what you want you never want to wait too long for it right?
Of course the other big issue is that in a few years' time who is going to by a Gen 1 CS when for only a little more they can get in to a decent Gen 2 car? I suspect that as the Gen 2 prices start to fall - and they will - then the Gen 1 prices will suffer badly. Actually this is already the case it is just that it is all happening a little north of my preferred budget just now.
Not 100% sure I want to be saddled with a Gen 1 CS in that scenario since it will be hard to get a decent price for it, but then neither a Gen 1 or Gen 2 CS is ever going to be an appreciating asset.
One question to all of you experts. Is there ANYTHING that is better on the Gen 1 CS than on the Gen 2? I did read somewhere that the engine was perhaps a fraction more involving and aurally rewarding - but other than that it seems the Gen 2 CS wins in pretty much every department.
If there were some real and important advantages the Gen 1 over the Gen 2 (steering feel or something) then buying a Gen 1 might make more sense but I'm not sure there is much in this case.
Views folks?
As for Gen 2 prices coming down, I doubt it. Nothing dramatic, anyway. There are not that many Gen 2 Caymans around, and demand is quite strong. It looks to me that prices are about the same as when I bought 2 years ago.
Hartech have left me a message. Need to call them back.
Still browsing everywhere but cant find anything, not that I am in a particular rush, just be nice to see some god weather still.
Booked to go see an e92 M3 & 235i on Saturday (even though both outside of my budget, some employee discount can be had and passed on) so who knows. Cayman still a strong contender!
Still browsing everywhere but cant find anything, not that I am in a particular rush, just be nice to see some god weather still.
Booked to go see an e92 M3 & 235i on Saturday (even though both outside of my budget, some employee discount can be had and passed on) so who knows. Cayman still a strong contender!
As the owner from new of a March 2006, 86,000 mile 987.1 Cayman S I would say that the steering feel of the 987.1 cars is marginally better than the 987.2 cars. The engine noise is also IMO marginally more raucous in a good way, although the 987.2 3.4 engine is keener to rev.
Although I have a GT4 coming in December I'm hoping to keep my 987.1 S for a while longer yet. Apparently it's worth tuppence-ha'penny but it still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.
The E92 M3 is an entirely different proposition (I also have an E90 M3, since April 09) - it's a great all-rounder but not in the same universe as a driver's car. It's a great contrast to the Cayman but steering feel is very remote by comparison, and it's too quiet unless/until you really cane it.
Happy shopping!
Although I have a GT4 coming in December I'm hoping to keep my 987.1 S for a while longer yet. Apparently it's worth tuppence-ha'penny but it still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.
The E92 M3 is an entirely different proposition (I also have an E90 M3, since April 09) - it's a great all-rounder but not in the same universe as a driver's car. It's a great contrast to the Cayman but steering feel is very remote by comparison, and it's too quiet unless/until you really cane it.
Happy shopping!
Stunters said:
As the owner from new of a March 2006, 86,000 mile 987.1 Cayman S I would say that the steering feel of the 987.1 cars is marginally better than the 987.2 cars. The engine noise is also IMO marginally more raucous in a good way, although the 987.2 3.4 engine is keener to rev.
Although I have a GT4 coming in December I'm hoping to keep my 987.1 S for a while longer yet. Apparently it's worth tuppence-ha'penny but it still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.
The E92 M3 is an entirely different proposition (I also have an E90 M3, since April 09) - it's a great all-rounder but not in the same universe as a driver's car. It's a great contrast to the Cayman but steering feel is very remote by comparison, and it's too quiet unless/until you really cane it.
Happy shopping!
I have to agree on the engine in the Gen1, a bit more of the angry sound and feels a bit more cammy too which is no bad thing. Although I have a GT4 coming in December I'm hoping to keep my 987.1 S for a while longer yet. Apparently it's worth tuppence-ha'penny but it still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.
The E92 M3 is an entirely different proposition (I also have an E90 M3, since April 09) - it's a great all-rounder but not in the same universe as a driver's car. It's a great contrast to the Cayman but steering feel is very remote by comparison, and it's too quiet unless/until you really cane it.
Happy shopping!
Comments above regarding lack of Gen2 cars available keeping prices quite buoyant, worth the investment though and PASM really won't give you anything.
Well thought I would just update the thread....
Didn't end up test driving the M3 but did drive the M235i at that point. Was set on a Cayman. Ended up getting dragged abroad with work so put everything on hold.
Recently test drove a lot of cars not really knowing what I wanted.... S3, RS3, m135, a45 amg, S5, Z4M coupe, Megane 275 trophy and then lastly an e92 M3 and that was the one.... I knew instantly I wanted one (even though Iwas convinced it was going to be a Porsche).
So I set out on a hunt for one, found a couple locally and began to choose my desired spec and colour combo etc. Resulted in a long drive down to London one Sunday with a hangover looking at a Monte Carlo edition car. Got there and it was a state, rough part of London and didn't appear to be a dealer though they are listed with 30-40 cars for sale... Quick look on trader and I found a car listed that morning, had the perfect spec, age and milage though the colour in the pictures didn't look great but decided to head in the direction of Southampton. Got there and I knew this was the car. Blew my budget by 2k but worth while and I haven't stopped smiling.
I know its not quite the drivers car and never on a million years did i forsee driving a auto but it ticks all boxes, pace, looks, performance, comfort and ability to go round track rather quickly!
Will deffo have a Porsche at some point but not just yet....
Pics (love how much the colour changes in different light)
![](http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t450/Tobyswain/Car%202/IMAG0017_3_zpspmybu6kr.jpg[/IMG]</a> <a href="http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/Tobyswain/media/Car%202/IMG-20150906-WA0040_zpsk2ozgzls.jpg.html" Target="_blank">[IMG]http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t450/Tobyswain/Car%202/IMG-20150906-WA0040_zpsk2ozgzls.jpg)
Didn't end up test driving the M3 but did drive the M235i at that point. Was set on a Cayman. Ended up getting dragged abroad with work so put everything on hold.
Recently test drove a lot of cars not really knowing what I wanted.... S3, RS3, m135, a45 amg, S5, Z4M coupe, Megane 275 trophy and then lastly an e92 M3 and that was the one.... I knew instantly I wanted one (even though Iwas convinced it was going to be a Porsche).
So I set out on a hunt for one, found a couple locally and began to choose my desired spec and colour combo etc. Resulted in a long drive down to London one Sunday with a hangover looking at a Monte Carlo edition car. Got there and it was a state, rough part of London and didn't appear to be a dealer though they are listed with 30-40 cars for sale... Quick look on trader and I found a car listed that morning, had the perfect spec, age and milage though the colour in the pictures didn't look great but decided to head in the direction of Southampton. Got there and I knew this was the car. Blew my budget by 2k but worth while and I haven't stopped smiling.
I know its not quite the drivers car and never on a million years did i forsee driving a auto but it ticks all boxes, pace, looks, performance, comfort and ability to go round track rather quickly!
Will deffo have a Porsche at some point but not just yet....
Pics (love how much the colour changes in different light)
Edited by Tubes89 on Saturday 26th September 22:33
ORD said:
To my mind, it is the absolute zenith for that kind of car (standard saloon with a motorsport inspired engine, better suspension, etc). I can't see the point in the new M3/M4 by comparison, and the C63 was always a just a barge with a noisy engine.
Re Old vs New M3/m4 there are clearly many who are anti turbo (and I can understand where they are coming from), but if you can get over that the new M4 is 80kg lighter, most of it over the front wheels, has more power, much more torque and much better economy. bcr5784 said:
ORD said:
To my mind, it is the absolute zenith for that kind of car (standard saloon with a motorsport inspired engine, better suspension, etc). I can't see the point in the new M3/M4 by comparison, and the C63 was always a just a barge with a noisy engine.
Re Old vs New M3/m4 there are clearly many who are anti turbo (and I can understand where they are coming from), but if you can get over that the new M4 is 80kg lighter, most of it over the front wheels, has more power, much more torque and much better economy. 
ORD said:
None of which matters at all. The old M3 needed neither more torque nor more power. The last thing it needed was to lose a spine-tingling V8 and to replace it with a run of the mill turbo 6 pot that would be more at home in a fast Audi. Probably the biggest example of an old car being much better than its direct replacement!
The BMW 6 has been the benchmark IL6 (NA or turbo) for as long as I can remember (at least 30 years) - so hardly run of the mill. Not everyone gets hooked on noise (it's quite low on my priorities) nor high rev limits (any sports bike revs to 10000+ and some to 15000 - but so what?). If those float your boat - absolutely fine, but take that out of the equation (it's purely subjective) then a more balanced view can be taken of the objective advantages - particularly the weight loss.bcr5784 said:
The BMW 6 has been the benchmark IL6 (NA or turbo) for as long as I can remember (at least 30 years) - so hardly run of the mill. Not everyone gets hooked on noise (it's quite low on my priorities) nor high rev limits (any sports bike revs to 10000+ and some to 15000 - but so what?). If those float your boat - absolutely fine, but take that out of the equation (it's purely subjective) then a more balanced view can be taken of the objective advantages - particularly the weight loss.
80kg is the difference between having and not having a passenger. Sure, you can feel it, and I am not saying that it isnt a good thing. But it is a very minor difference in such a heavy car and compared to the difference between a gorgeous NA engine and a turbocharged pile of meh. The V8 was an highlight in BMW's engine history; this latest turbo 6 will be forgotten even while you are using it. You could replace it with any other high output turbo engine and nobody would notice.ORD said:
80kg is the difference between having and not having a passenger. Sure, you can feel it, and I am not saying that it isnt a good thing. But it is a very minor difference in such a heavy car and compared to the difference between a gorgeous NA engine and a turbocharged pile of meh. The V8 was an highlight in BMW's engine history; this latest turbo 6 will be forgotten even while you are using it. You could replace it with any other high output turbo engine and nobody would notice.
You are being less than fair to the engine - peak power is held to 7300 and it revs to 7600 -unusually high for a turbo, and not that much different to a NA Cayman S/GTS. What other 6 cylinder IL turbo could you replace it with? Certainly not the V6 porsche turbo in the Panamera which has nothing like the breadth of power band. It may not be your cup of tea but it certainly isn't just another turbo any more than (say) the Ferrari 488 one is. Even the weight (heavier than I would like too) is less than a Porsche 911 Turbo!
bcr5784 said:
You are being less than fair to the engine - peak power is held to 7300 and it revs to 7600 -unusually high for a turbo, and not that much different to a NA Cayman S/GTS. What other 6 cylinder IL turbo could you replace it with? Certainly not the V6 porsche turbo in the Panamera which has nothing like the breadth of power band. It may not be your cup of tea but it certainly isn't just another turbo any more than (say) the Ferrari 488 one is.
Even the weight (heavier than I would like too) is less than a Porsche 911 Turbo!
I haven't driven the new M3/M4, but people who despise turbos a lot less than I do have said it is uninspiring (see, e.g. Sutcliffe at Autocar, who is a bit of a knob but certainly not a turbo-hater). Even Cmoose, who at least tries to like new cars, thinks its a turd Even the weight (heavier than I would like too) is less than a Porsche 911 Turbo!
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