Finally got a 718 GT4!
Discussion
ntiz said:
I was always a big Lotus fan and always had my plan to get an Exige when the time came.
amongst my extensive (obsessive) research over the years I found a YouTube video by one of the German mags. That took the Exige and 981GT4 to I think Holkenheim for a head to head. To my disgust at the time the GT4 was a bit quicker.
The racing driver reconned it was simply the GT4 has wider tyres giving it that little bit more grip particularly on exit where the Exige was getting quite a lot of oversteer.
Yeah that would make sense. The weight distribution in the car is much better in the Porsche too which will contribute towards the grip. You can get a nicely specced V6 considerably cheaper than a GT4 as well so the value for money probably does with with the Lotus. I've spent many years driving all the cars all the setups and all the different suspension etc and an S2 260 with Ohlins and LSD is the best I have found for road but the s2 is not a great platform for track so there are always sacrifices/strengths/weaknesses and it can be a lot of fun in life finding out what works for you. amongst my extensive (obsessive) research over the years I found a YouTube video by one of the German mags. That took the Exige and 981GT4 to I think Holkenheim for a head to head. To my disgust at the time the GT4 was a bit quicker.
The racing driver reconned it was simply the GT4 has wider tyres giving it that little bit more grip particularly on exit where the Exige was getting quite a lot of oversteer.
Welcome to the GT4 club and lovely spec. I enjoyed reading your comments on the Exige Vs GT4 as I've had Lotus before my GT4.
NA S2 Exige followed by an S 220 that I changed the suspension and brakes and used on track for about 10 years and I absolutely loved it. I eventually sold it as I hadn't used it properly for about 3 years, kids, work etc were my priority. Why did I sell it, worst mistake ever.
I then bought a new 410 V6 Exige on the basis I had to buy something special before the world completely changed. Sadly that all went badly wrong, and much to my frustration Lotus UK were shockingly bad, so I only did 600 miles in it before it went back. But in that time I realised that my use case had changed and I was living in the past. It sounded great, handled like a Lotus and felt bloody quick on the road but it was just not quite as civilised as I'd imagined considering it appeared a little more grown up than the S2. On reflection it's stupid as I didn't test drive one before committing, due to where I live. The nail in the coffin was my Wife's first passenger ride when she said she wouldn't go on a long trip in it.
Anyhow an opportunity opened for a new GT4 and so I stumped up the extra money and it's definitely the right car for me. The steering is numb in comparison, but the sophistication of the chassis is noticeable and whilst I don't daily it, it feels luxurious by comparison. The wind noise from the V6 was hilariously bad as well as the AC.
I wish the GT4 sounded as good as the V6 but I think the V6 Exige has to be one of the best sounding cars, period. The engine makes up for it in the GT4, as the V6 ran out of go too early in my view.
On track I'd be quicker in the GT4 than the 410 but I do think the Exige would be more satisfying with it's steering feel.
Sorry I've just realised I've been typing away. Enjoy the GT4 and one day I'll have an S2 again or 2 eleven to sit next to mine.
NA S2 Exige followed by an S 220 that I changed the suspension and brakes and used on track for about 10 years and I absolutely loved it. I eventually sold it as I hadn't used it properly for about 3 years, kids, work etc were my priority. Why did I sell it, worst mistake ever.
I then bought a new 410 V6 Exige on the basis I had to buy something special before the world completely changed. Sadly that all went badly wrong, and much to my frustration Lotus UK were shockingly bad, so I only did 600 miles in it before it went back. But in that time I realised that my use case had changed and I was living in the past. It sounded great, handled like a Lotus and felt bloody quick on the road but it was just not quite as civilised as I'd imagined considering it appeared a little more grown up than the S2. On reflection it's stupid as I didn't test drive one before committing, due to where I live. The nail in the coffin was my Wife's first passenger ride when she said she wouldn't go on a long trip in it.
Anyhow an opportunity opened for a new GT4 and so I stumped up the extra money and it's definitely the right car for me. The steering is numb in comparison, but the sophistication of the chassis is noticeable and whilst I don't daily it, it feels luxurious by comparison. The wind noise from the V6 was hilariously bad as well as the AC.
I wish the GT4 sounded as good as the V6 but I think the V6 Exige has to be one of the best sounding cars, period. The engine makes up for it in the GT4, as the V6 ran out of go too early in my view.
On track I'd be quicker in the GT4 than the 410 but I do think the Exige would be more satisfying with it's steering feel.
Sorry I've just realised I've been typing away. Enjoy the GT4 and one day I'll have an S2 again or 2 eleven to sit next to mine.
Lovely spec congrats, be interesting to see what you think on track as I saw your slightly controversial comments about the 991.1RS 
RE GT4 Vs Exige V6 interesting reading your comments - I think the GT4 is quicker on a lap than any V6 made including the 430, which is interesting because the 430 was £20k more than the RRP of a 718GT4.
Consider that even the old 981GT4 does a sub 2:20 lap at Silverstone whereas I've never seen or found a V6 doing sub 2:20 apart from the race Exige V6s in the old Lotus Cup rounds which were around 2:18. Johnny Cocker says 718GT4s can do a 2:17ish stock at Silverstone...
I've followed many many V6s on track in my S2 Elige and can see exactly where they suffer - they just can't keep that big rear stable on turn in, they almost roll-oversteer - it's a big heavy engine that really suffers just with how physically tall it is - then they added a heavy lump of a supercharger and charge cooler on top too.
All Lotus' including mine suffer from the compromise of having to use a FWD drivetrain - it's just that the S2s disguise it slightly better through lack of weight and a comparatively light engine - you have to remember that a V6 Exige is just an S2 Elise with a slightly wider track and longer wheelbase but has an extra 300kg stuffed in the rear.
As per my post on FB I was shocked how fun my 718GT4 was on track (coming to it from an 800kg K20 swapped Elise) - I had expected it to feel a bit numb and detached - but with all the aids turned off it was almost magical - can't match an Elise for steering feel sure, but the messages are still there just a bit quieter in volume. Again as I previously said, the GT4 has an extra dimension over my Lotus on track just with the fun of managing exit oversteer - which has confirmed to me that the Lotus does need more power to be nearer to perfect.
RE GT4 Vs Exige V6 interesting reading your comments - I think the GT4 is quicker on a lap than any V6 made including the 430, which is interesting because the 430 was £20k more than the RRP of a 718GT4.
Consider that even the old 981GT4 does a sub 2:20 lap at Silverstone whereas I've never seen or found a V6 doing sub 2:20 apart from the race Exige V6s in the old Lotus Cup rounds which were around 2:18. Johnny Cocker says 718GT4s can do a 2:17ish stock at Silverstone...
I've followed many many V6s on track in my S2 Elige and can see exactly where they suffer - they just can't keep that big rear stable on turn in, they almost roll-oversteer - it's a big heavy engine that really suffers just with how physically tall it is - then they added a heavy lump of a supercharger and charge cooler on top too.
All Lotus' including mine suffer from the compromise of having to use a FWD drivetrain - it's just that the S2s disguise it slightly better through lack of weight and a comparatively light engine - you have to remember that a V6 Exige is just an S2 Elise with a slightly wider track and longer wheelbase but has an extra 300kg stuffed in the rear.
As per my post on FB I was shocked how fun my 718GT4 was on track (coming to it from an 800kg K20 swapped Elise) - I had expected it to feel a bit numb and detached - but with all the aids turned off it was almost magical - can't match an Elise for steering feel sure, but the messages are still there just a bit quieter in volume. Again as I previously said, the GT4 has an extra dimension over my Lotus on track just with the fun of managing exit oversteer - which has confirmed to me that the Lotus does need more power to be nearer to perfect.
Well the GT4/RS is the car that Porsche don't want to have as their halo car but it is for me.
The first drive out in the 991 RS I was a bit...uh oh think I've made a booboo here it's just a deeply flawed car. On track it was ok when tyres are up to temp but still a bit boring really and they cost a fortune to run on track because they are just a frame over a set of absolutely massive rear tyres and that's where all the lap times come from.
The Cayman is much better balanced the power delivery is much better with that mid range flat 6 punch where the RS was gutless unless you had 7k revs dialled in. It also sounds better inside the car which is where it counts for me. It's actually quite hard to express just how crap the GT3 RS was for 160k it's a complete joke I couldn't wait to get rid of it. You'd never believe it unless you went and bought one. All the owners that rave about them are on drugs honestly.
The first drive out in the 991 RS I was a bit...uh oh think I've made a booboo here it's just a deeply flawed car. On track it was ok when tyres are up to temp but still a bit boring really and they cost a fortune to run on track because they are just a frame over a set of absolutely massive rear tyres and that's where all the lap times come from.
The Cayman is much better balanced the power delivery is much better with that mid range flat 6 punch where the RS was gutless unless you had 7k revs dialled in. It also sounds better inside the car which is where it counts for me. It's actually quite hard to express just how crap the GT3 RS was for 160k it's a complete joke I couldn't wait to get rid of it. You'd never believe it unless you went and bought one. All the owners that rave about them are on drugs honestly.
Congrats on the GT4. Great cars.
In my opinion, first drives in a mid engined car make you feel more comfortable right off the bat, on road and track. Largely due to the turn in.
To really understand a 991 GT3 or RS you need to be on an appropriate track and be comfortable driving it at pace/well. Only then will it make sense. They’re more tricky and I think rewarding at the limit. imho
In my opinion, first drives in a mid engined car make you feel more comfortable right off the bat, on road and track. Largely due to the turn in.
To really understand a 991 GT3 or RS you need to be on an appropriate track and be comfortable driving it at pace/well. Only then will it make sense. They’re more tricky and I think rewarding at the limit. imho
I think it's easy to run away with lap time numbers ... herewith for the 981 GT4 which I own ...
I have done 2:25's in mine ... I can tell you it feel very fast particularly when there is other traffic ...
https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-cayman-gt4
And the 718 GT4 and RS...
https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-cayman-gt4-...
https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-718-gt4-rs
As for the GT3, it is a different car.
Originally cars such as the 964RS which had no aids beyond a fairly crude ABS did require a driving style that to be effective made real use of the weight transfer ... requiring feel and learning and a certain amount of skill.
Since then the engines have moved forwards, tyre sizes have changed, rear wheel steering has helped ... and there is no argument that the multilink rear suspension of the GT3 is an improvement over the very well developed rear suspension of the Cayman platform. Hence the cars have become easier to drive ... but still with an emphasis on getting the nose locked into the corner and the rest will follow ... and still with an emphasis on learning your car
To be fair, in extremis this is exactly the same with the Cayman chassis ... it may be easier to lock the nose in but when you are "too fast" for a given driving style into the corner the car still wants to understeer ... and this is where the rear end of the Cayman can be less predictable than the tail end of a 911 ...
Herewith the 991.2 GT3 times for comparison:
https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-911-gt3-991...
And the 991.2 GT3 RS ....
https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-911-gt3-rs-...
I have done 2:25's in mine ... I can tell you it feel very fast particularly when there is other traffic ...
https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-cayman-gt4
And the 718 GT4 and RS...
https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-cayman-gt4-...
https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-718-gt4-rs
As for the GT3, it is a different car.
Originally cars such as the 964RS which had no aids beyond a fairly crude ABS did require a driving style that to be effective made real use of the weight transfer ... requiring feel and learning and a certain amount of skill.
Since then the engines have moved forwards, tyre sizes have changed, rear wheel steering has helped ... and there is no argument that the multilink rear suspension of the GT3 is an improvement over the very well developed rear suspension of the Cayman platform. Hence the cars have become easier to drive ... but still with an emphasis on getting the nose locked into the corner and the rest will follow ... and still with an emphasis on learning your car
To be fair, in extremis this is exactly the same with the Cayman chassis ... it may be easier to lock the nose in but when you are "too fast" for a given driving style into the corner the car still wants to understeer ... and this is where the rear end of the Cayman can be less predictable than the tail end of a 911 ...
Herewith the 991.2 GT3 times for comparison:
https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-911-gt3-991...
And the 991.2 GT3 RS ....
https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-911-gt3-rs-...
Have to say my heart is warmed by the new wave of enthusiasm for the GT4, particularly for track day use. 2024 will be exciting!.
Only thing I'll say about fastestlaps.com is that it's ok as reference but it is only based upon data that has been submitted, therefore people will have gone faster but not have submitted data.
Only thing I'll say about fastestlaps.com is that it's ok as reference but it is only based upon data that has been submitted, therefore people will have gone faster but not have submitted data.
I wonder how long it will be before there are some seriously track-spec cars out and about ?
If you look at the fastest lap times you will see some unexpected differences between cars, I guess for this reason ... but across the board they give a good impression of the competences of a wide variety of cars ...
If you look at the fastest lap times you will see some unexpected differences between cars, I guess for this reason ... but across the board they give a good impression of the competences of a wide variety of cars ...
Edited by ChrisW. on Friday 29th December 14:39
ChrisW. said:
I wonder how long it will be before there are some seriously track-spec cars out and about ?
There are quite a few around.... I have seen a number of cars have been getting power upgrade packages which take them to 455/460hp - comprised of Tune, BMC Filters, OAP bypass pipes and optionally LWFW. Hopefully they make it to some track events.Main other thing that people are playing with is tyres... with experimentation on A052s, which I would like to try myself actually.
I continue to flip-flop on fitting my LWFW and Sports clutch - but kinda don't want to introduce any risk into my setup.
It would give a nice pep in throttle response - which would be great for sharpening up gear changes a little - but it seems there are mixed results and its more of an experience modification than an actual speed one.
If others have fitted would be great to hear your experiences - especially on the 9A2EVO 4.0.
Edited by TDT on Friday 29th December 18:11
TDT said:
ChrisW. said:
I wonder how long it will be before there are some seriously track-spec cars out and about ?
There are quite a few around.... I have seen a number of cars have been getting power upgrade packages which take them to 455/460hp - comprised of Tune, BMC Filters, OAP bypass pipes and optionally LWFW. Hopefully they make it to some track events.Main other thing that people are playing with is tyres... with experimentation on A052s, which I would like to try myself actually.
I continue to flip-flop on fitting my LWFW and Sports clutch - but kinda don't want to introduce any risk into my setup.
It would give a nice pep in throttle response - which would be great for sharpening up gear changes a little - but it seems there are mixed results and its more of an experience modification than an actual speed one.
If others have fitted would be great to hear your experiences - especially on the 9A2EVO 4.0.
Edited by TDT on Friday 29th December 18:11
As for pace, the gearing does make a difference but since gear changes take time it's track dependent ... great for hauling past a GT3 after a set-up corner ??
TDT said:
agree lot of car for the money. shows all those who are saying market is still strong are wrong. knowing romans they'll be trying to make at least 10k out of that.
fridaypassion said:
Is it possible to have any thread that doesn't turn into a market and value discussion? It really is a Porsche owners disease this. Just drive the bloody cars! 
agree, but your opening post talks about keeping an eye on the market and how you couldnt resist the deals on offer. not about to hell with the money, i bought what i wanted and the money ain't a thing 
Sidsw said:
agree, but your opening post talks about keeping an eye on the market and how you couldnt resist the deals on offer. not about to hell with the money, i bought what i wanted and the money ain't a thing
Yeah but every other Porsche thread on here just goes towards discussing the market/specs/prices etc. Now I've bought one in not going to be on auto trader looking any more 
ChrisW. said:
TDT said:
ChrisW. said:
I wonder how long it will be before there are some seriously track-spec cars out and about ?
There are quite a few around.... I have seen a number of cars have been getting power upgrade packages which take them to 455/460hp - comprised of Tune, BMC Filters, OAP bypass pipes and optionally LWFW. Hopefully they make it to some track events.Main other thing that people are playing with is tyres... with experimentation on A052s, which I would like to try myself actually.
I continue to flip-flop on fitting my LWFW and Sports clutch - but kinda don't want to introduce any risk into my setup.
It would give a nice pep in throttle response - which would be great for sharpening up gear changes a little - but it seems there are mixed results and its more of an experience modification than an actual speed one.
If others have fitted would be great to hear your experiences - especially on the 9A2EVO 4.0.
Edited by TDT on Friday 29th December 18:11
As for pace, the gearing does make a difference but since gear changes take time it's track dependent ... great for hauling past a GT3 after a set-up corner ??
As for gearing… like you say… I think it’s a good fit for predominantly road use.
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