Proof that a manual is quicker than a PDK!!
Discussion
mollytherocker said:
BOOM!
It would be great to think that this would silence the 'because F1 init' crowd, but Sadly it wont.
Perhaps because he drives a dual clutch all day he'd like a change - and I'm being serious.It would be great to think that this would silence the 'because F1 init' crowd, but Sadly it wont.
My Cayman is the first automatic car I have owned though I've driven many automatic cars from CVTs, slush boxes, robotised manuals and other dual clutch (mostly VW). I was never inclined to buy one - despite (in the case of dual clutch) my head saying they are inherently better.
I wasn't going to drive a PDK Cayman either, but my local dealer didn't have a manual. But I was blown away by how good the PDK one is.
Moral - don't knock PDK until you've tried it, and used it fully manually - in a 981. You just might be surprised by your reaction - I was.
That will be my last post on this subject (you'll be pleased to hear) - it's getting circular.
mollytherocker said:
BOOM!
It would be great to think that this would silence the 'because F1 init' crowd, but Sadly it wont.
Well hold on a minute, you're the guy who was talking about driving 'at the limit'. It would be great to think that this would silence the 'because F1 init' crowd, but Sadly it wont.
So it seems it has to be either 'because race car' or 'because race driver'.
I understand Lewis has homes in Monaco and west coast United States. Where is the Pagini for, anyone know? In Monaco he has on his doorstep access to what I regard as the greatest driving roads in the world, but I do think the Pagini would be too big, too wide and too 'look at me' for driving pleasure in that region.
I know Lewis has a Cobra in the US and that would be perfect for driving up into and around the mountains from Monaco, imo. It's interesting that you guys are discussing the intricacies of Fish Hill, but how many Fish Hills are there in between the edge of town in Monaco and 1-2 days drive away? 10,000?
Anyway, I live in the UK, Birmingham in fact, and I'm going to choose what's best for me and not base that choice on a dream world.
I know that a pdk would be better for me most of the time, and a manual better and more involving for much less of a time. It's for me to decide how I want to play this should I be in the position to make that choice.
The other aspect of the choice is how much less of a man would I be in some eyes
. This thread really has reminded me of the good old Stones lyrics "But he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke The same cigarettes as me". 
(He says, leaving himself open to comments on 'Satisfaction').
Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 2nd December 08:49
I should maybe point in the direction of this thread a few racers I know that have spent thousands fitting Sequential box's and paddle shift systems to their race / sprint cars, they could have saved a fortune 
, saying that I Cant say I have heard of anyone reporting that they have gone slower with clutchless upshifts and I am yet to hear any of them report that they find the experience dull !
, saying that I Cant say I have heard of anyone reporting that they have gone slower with clutchless upshifts and I am yet to hear any of them report that they find the experience dull !JeffC said:
I should maybe point in the direction of this thread a few racers I know that have spent thousands fitting Sequential box's and paddle shift systems to their race / sprint cars, they could have saved a fortune , saying that I Cant say I have heard of anyone reporting that they have gone slower with clutchless upshifts and I am yet to hear any of them report that they find the experience dull !
what does that have to do with having PDK in a road car esp a fun car ? , saying that I Cant say I have heard of anyone reporting that they have gone slower with clutchless upshifts and I am yet to hear any of them report that they find the experience dull !NO one here drives a race car on the road or any thing any where near close to one.
mrdemon said:
JeffC said:
I should maybe point in the direction of this thread a few racers I know that have spent thousands fitting Sequential box's and paddle shift systems to their race / sprint cars, they could have saved a fortune , saying that I Cant say I have heard of anyone reporting that they have gone slower with clutchless upshifts and I am yet to hear any of them report that they find the experience dull !
what does that have to do with having PDK in a road car esp a fun car ? , saying that I Cant say I have heard of anyone reporting that they have gone slower with clutchless upshifts and I am yet to hear any of them report that they find the experience dull !NO one here drives a race car on the road or any thing any where near close to one.
what he choose to have a road car but in manual, imo that says a lot, he enjoys changing gear !
He is into and loves driving,
If you are really into driving you buy a manual, people seem to not like the fact I say that and think it's patronising.
but like I said on the whole those people don't change their geo's brakes tyres etc either.
they want to try and convince themselves they are into driving, but really are not that bothered imo.
again nothing wrong in that if one just wants to own a nice car which feels a bit sporty.
A oem Porsche geo is so dull and has to be safe for every one that buys one, if you don't change the geo, it's not a great car to drive, none of them !!
IF you are really into driving like a few of us are here, it's the 1st thing you go and do !!!!
I love to talk cars with guys and people on track days etc etc, can do it till the cows come home, but as soon as the owner says they have not changed the geo I loose interest quite fast, I do try and get them more involved and show them my car, take them out etc, but if you get the line "Porsche know best, I am not touching my geo" then I have nothing in common with that person to carry on talking to them lol
nothing wrong with it, many people just buy cars to own as nice objects and love cleaning and doing concours and that's great as long as they admit that's what they are doing.
GTS test on evo car of the year, now I think the steering is a hugh step backwards, but the guys did not gell with it.
I do hope the GT4 can fix the steering issues.
http://youtu.be/4AJPt_qm5kY
12.30 in, the car understeers and has no feel, !!!
He is into and loves driving,
If you are really into driving you buy a manual, people seem to not like the fact I say that and think it's patronising.
but like I said on the whole those people don't change their geo's brakes tyres etc either.
they want to try and convince themselves they are into driving, but really are not that bothered imo.
again nothing wrong in that if one just wants to own a nice car which feels a bit sporty.
A oem Porsche geo is so dull and has to be safe for every one that buys one, if you don't change the geo, it's not a great car to drive, none of them !!
IF you are really into driving like a few of us are here, it's the 1st thing you go and do !!!!
I love to talk cars with guys and people on track days etc etc, can do it till the cows come home, but as soon as the owner says they have not changed the geo I loose interest quite fast, I do try and get them more involved and show them my car, take them out etc, but if you get the line "Porsche know best, I am not touching my geo" then I have nothing in common with that person to carry on talking to them lol
nothing wrong with it, many people just buy cars to own as nice objects and love cleaning and doing concours and that's great as long as they admit that's what they are doing.
GTS test on evo car of the year, now I think the steering is a hugh step backwards, but the guys did not gell with it.
I do hope the GT4 can fix the steering issues.
http://youtu.be/4AJPt_qm5kY
12.30 in, the car understeers and has no feel, !!!
Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 2nd December 10:34
mrdemon said:
what he choose to have a road car but in manual, imo that says a lot, he enjoys changing gear !
He is into and loves driving,
If you are really into driving you buy a manual, people seem to not like the fact I say that and think it's patronising.
well I couldn't give two hoots what Hamilton drives , I have seen and worse heard what he shags and anyone that can put up with that seriously goes down in my estimation He is into and loves driving,
If you are really into driving you buy a manual, people seem to not like the fact I say that and think it's patronising.
Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 2nd December 09:51
end of the day we are all different and I am in that place in time where I dont want to change gear 90% of the time, Its maybe an age thing, however what i will say is I have been a petrol head since as long as i can remember, driving and maintaining old cars with my dad , owned cars since i was 10, had quads , motorbikes, 4 years racing karts ,done track days for 14 years, raced Caterhams , my current race car is my passion, I have built it into a very quick and competitive car, has the power steering removed, Quaife quick rack, Paddle clutch, plated Diff , straight cut gears blah blah blah Yet I own a Pdk Porsche am I the exception to the rule????? I think you will struggle to find anyone more passionate about cars than I am, I have worked with cars all my life , I just love driving I go out on weekends just to drive, I have driven on a summer evening with the wife over 150 miles down the coast to buy an icecream when I can get one out the freezer at home !
and let the debate continue
stereotyping is not about 100% of the people esp on a car forum but lets take Porsche sales for PDK
how many guys are like you lol have you changed your geo on your road car though ? :-p
because no matter what you race, if you run stock geo on your road Porker then it seems sad lol
I did say I knew 2 PDK owners of R and Spyder who can prob out drive me and just want to go faster on track and both do track them.
but both don't run stock geo's or tyres either.
IF you have not changed your geo and gone PDK then yes , must be a age thing in your case because I doubt you want to track a road car when you have a race car. I got board of track days my self and do far less these days.
the new evo vid, talks a lot of sense esp on the new 981, poor steering feel, understeers, long gearing etc etc all things I have been saying since launch !!!! I waiting 2 years for the new 981 and bought a load of s
t inbetween, 1st drive put me off the 981 straight away, the GTS is no better !!
how many guys are like you lol have you changed your geo on your road car though ? :-p
because no matter what you race, if you run stock geo on your road Porker then it seems sad lol
I did say I knew 2 PDK owners of R and Spyder who can prob out drive me and just want to go faster on track and both do track them.
but both don't run stock geo's or tyres either.
IF you have not changed your geo and gone PDK then yes , must be a age thing in your case because I doubt you want to track a road car when you have a race car. I got board of track days my self and do far less these days.
the new evo vid, talks a lot of sense esp on the new 981, poor steering feel, understeers, long gearing etc etc all things I have been saying since launch !!!! I waiting 2 years for the new 981 and bought a load of s
t inbetween, 1st drive put me off the 981 straight away, the GTS is no better !!Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 2nd December 10:58
heebeegeetee said:
Anyway, I live in the UK, Birmingham in fact, and I'm going to choose what's best for me and not base that choice on a dream world.
I know that a pdk would be better for me most of the time, and a manual better and more involving for much less of a time. It's for me to decide how I want to play this should I be in the position to make that choice.
The other aspect of the choice is how much less of a man would I be in some eyes. This thread really has reminded me of the good old Stones lyrics "But he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke The same cigarettes as me".
(He says, leaving himself open to comments on 'Satisfaction').
1 - You should defintely choose whats best for you. No argument there. I am still not clear on what this 'dream world' is you keep mentioning?I know that a pdk would be better for me most of the time, and a manual better and more involving for much less of a time. It's for me to decide how I want to play this should I be in the position to make that choice.
The other aspect of the choice is how much less of a man would I be in some eyes
. This thread really has reminded me of the good old Stones lyrics "But he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke The same cigarettes as me". (He says, leaving himself open to comments on 'Satisfaction').
Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 2nd December 08:49
2 - Of course its your decision, who has said it is'nt?
3 - Who has said you are 'less of a man'? I dont remember seeing anybody say that?
JeffC said:
well I couldn't give two hoots what Hamilton drives , I have seen and worse heard what he shags and anyone that can put up with that seriously goes down in my estimation
end of the day we are all different and I am in that place in time where I dont want to change gear 90% of the time, Its maybe an age thing, however what i will say is I have been a petrol head since as long as i can remember, driving and maintaining old cars with my dad , owned cars since i was 10, had quads , motorbikes, 4 years racing karts ,done track days for 14 years, raced Caterhams , my current race car is my passion, I have built it into a very quick and competitive car, has the power steering removed, Quaife quick rack, Paddle clutch, plated Diff , straight cut gears blah blah blah Yet I own a Pdk Porsche am I the exception to the rule????? I think you will struggle to find anyone more passionate about cars than I am, I have worked with cars all my life , I just love driving I go out on weekends just to drive, I have driven on a summer evening with the wife over 150 miles down the coast to buy an icecream when I can get one out the freezer at home !
and let the debate continue
If you dont want to change gear 90% of the time, then I its obviously not that important to you and thats totally your choice of course.end of the day we are all different and I am in that place in time where I dont want to change gear 90% of the time, Its maybe an age thing, however what i will say is I have been a petrol head since as long as i can remember, driving and maintaining old cars with my dad , owned cars since i was 10, had quads , motorbikes, 4 years racing karts ,done track days for 14 years, raced Caterhams , my current race car is my passion, I have built it into a very quick and competitive car, has the power steering removed, Quaife quick rack, Paddle clutch, plated Diff , straight cut gears blah blah blah Yet I own a Pdk Porsche am I the exception to the rule????? I think you will struggle to find anyone more passionate about cars than I am, I have worked with cars all my life , I just love driving I go out on weekends just to drive, I have driven on a summer evening with the wife over 150 miles down the coast to buy an icecream when I can get one out the freezer at home !
and let the debate continue
You should get a PDK, that might suit you? Oh you have one? Sorted!
Well I for one have not changed geo on my car, no need it's a road car and will never see track as I know how slow over a lap it would be, I enjoy it for what it is, a nice sporty road car ,I have however spent many years with a data logger chasing 100ths of a second not tenths and can confirm there is far more time to be found in the driver than half a degree of caster!! As an example of that I cold post u a video of my tintop race car which is only a pitiful 200 bhp doing a 1.41 lap of cadwell (it will do a sub 1.40 ) which was quicker than pretty much every car on track and I had wires coming through the tyres they were that canvassed, as said there is far more in seat time than fiddling unless u are looking for 100ths which on the road u not!
Fwiw I have tried to own a car that is good on track and road but there is always a compromise, hence I bought the Boxster and a race car so I have a car that is good at both jobs.
Fwiw I have tried to own a car that is good on track and road but there is always a compromise, hence I bought the Boxster and a race car so I have a car that is good at both jobs.
MY R is only a road car but tyres and a geo transformed it into some thing quite good ;-)
my Cawell time was about 1.50 in my old NA exige. but the guy taking the vid of me was in a 135bhp road car with road tyres !!!
http://youtu.be/Sx1MnJNhOx4?list=UUlaB8y7ruWQ24BwJ...
I am not ready to give in to oem safe geo's just yet ;-) or for that matter switch to a 981 non GT Cayman.
As I said, I am happy with people admitted what they want a car for, it just seems others are not admitting what the car is for/use.
I do find it odd you race and don't find a stock set up Porsche frustrating though.
where for £100 you could have a nice geo on it and transform it even for road use.
my Cawell time was about 1.50 in my old NA exige. but the guy taking the vid of me was in a 135bhp road car with road tyres !!!
http://youtu.be/Sx1MnJNhOx4?list=UUlaB8y7ruWQ24BwJ...
I am not ready to give in to oem safe geo's just yet ;-) or for that matter switch to a 981 non GT Cayman.
As I said, I am happy with people admitted what they want a car for, it just seems others are not admitting what the car is for/use.
I do find it odd you race and don't find a stock set up Porsche frustrating though.
where for £100 you could have a nice geo on it and transform it even for road use.
Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 2nd December 11:47
mollytherocker said:
If you dont want to change gear 90% of the time, then I its obviously not that important to you and thats totally your choice of course.
You should get a PDK, that might suit you? Oh you have one? Sorted!
Nar I bought the pdk cos it's faster.You should get a PDK, that might suit you? Oh you have one? Sorted!
Mrdemon Will have a watch of that vid once I get some wifi.
As said never felt the need to change it , it does what I want, im 44 and on the road most of the time I'm steady away. When u say change geo what have you changed ?
mrdemon said:
MY R is only a road car but tyres and a geo transformed it into some thing quite good ;-)
my Cawell time was about 1.50 in my old NA exige. but the guy taking the vid of me was in a 135bhp road car with road tyres !!!
http://youtu.be/Sx1MnJNhOx4?list=UUlaB8y7ruWQ24BwJ...
Best drivers track in the Uk, really suits light lower powered cars.my Cawell time was about 1.50 in my old NA exige. but the guy taking the vid of me was in a 135bhp road car with road tyres !!!
http://youtu.be/Sx1MnJNhOx4?list=UUlaB8y7ruWQ24BwJ...
Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 2nd December 11:47
this was my last visit there in my 26 year old Honda. was only session where track was clear sadly tyres were shagged by then as you can hear in the vid i was suffering a misfire exiting the corners so was happy with a 1.41 , there is some vids of my r500 and R600 Caterham there too as said best Cicruit !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUd0HWb-DWU&li...
Sorry for the thread drift BTW !
Edited by JeffC on Tuesday 2nd December 12:19
JeffC said:
Nar I bought the pdk cos it's faster.
Mrdemon Will have a watch of that vid once I get some wifi.
As said never felt the need to change it , it does what I want, im 44 and on the road most of the time I'm steady away. When u say change geo what have you changed ?
on the R just front toe and front camber.Mrdemon Will have a watch of that vid once I get some wifi.
As said never felt the need to change it , it does what I want, im 44 and on the road most of the time I'm steady away. When u say change geo what have you changed ?
ni on no front toe and and -1.2 front camber, just stops it understeering so bad, I have also fitted 7mm front only spacers to help turn in, RS 29 pads and PSS tyres.
My spyder runs ajustable LCA with -2 front camber with the option to go -2.5 for track, Race maxx tyres and monoball rear toe links.
JeffC said:
Best drivers track in the Uk, really suits light lower powered cars.
this was my last visit there in my 26 year old Honda. was only session where track was clear sadly tyres were shagged by then as you can hear in the vid i was suffering a misfire exiting the corners so was happy with a 1.41 , there is some vids of my r500 and R600 Caterham there too as said best Cicruit !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUd0HWb-DWU&li...
Sorry for the thread drift BTW !
nice vid ;-)this was my last visit there in my 26 year old Honda. was only session where track was clear sadly tyres were shagged by then as you can hear in the vid i was suffering a misfire exiting the corners so was happy with a 1.41 , there is some vids of my r500 and R600 Caterham there too as said best Cicruit !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUd0HWb-DWU&li...
Sorry for the thread drift BTW !
-1.2 feels a lot better than -0.35 I can asure you of that :-)
look at the new evo vid from 11 in minutes about the GTS on ecoty
Long ratios ruin the car, no feel, understeers, bad in the wet etc etc.
All the things I said when the GTS was launced and drove it lol.
O well people and mags catch on once the hype has passed.
look at the new evo vid from 11 in minutes about the GTS on ecoty
Long ratios ruin the car, no feel, understeers, bad in the wet etc etc.
All the things I said when the GTS was launced and drove it lol.
O well people and mags catch on once the hype has passed.
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