GT4 RS breaks cover then...
Discussion
johnycarrera said:
Can’t find anything other than shorter ratios of the box too, nothing about a faster change, wider front and rear track with different rear geo is the most likely cause of a faster turn in (with Cup2R tyres) as opposed to any rack changes
https://press.porsche.com/prod/presse_pag/PressRes...article said:
Like every modern RS variant, the new 718 Cayman GT4 RS will be offered exclusively with the seven-speed dual-clutch transmission (PDK): It changes gears with lightning-quick speeds and contributes to the high degree of performance that the car offers. Using shift paddles mounted on the steering wheel, drivers can change gears manually as they choose without taking their hands off the wheel. Alternatively, they can also change gears manually using the newly designed shift lever in the center console.
The Sport-PDK features shorter gearing than what is found in a PDK-equipped 718 Cayman GT4, and contributes to the impressive acceleration. The 718 Cayman GT4 RS accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 3.2 seconds – half a second quicker than the 414 hp 718 Cayman GT4 with PDK. Top track speed is 196 mph (GT4 with PDK: 187 mph), which the GT4 RS reaches in seventh gear.
I think Sport-PDK, or sPDK, is different to the regular PDK found in the GT4 and is more similar to that found in the GT3. The GT4 gets the same PDK as a GTS I think.The Sport-PDK features shorter gearing than what is found in a PDK-equipped 718 Cayman GT4, and contributes to the impressive acceleration. The 718 Cayman GT4 RS accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 3.2 seconds – half a second quicker than the 414 hp 718 Cayman GT4 with PDK. Top track speed is 196 mph (GT4 with PDK: 187 mph), which the GT4 RS reaches in seventh gear.
article said:
Enhancements to the suspension also contribute to the even higher level of performance. Ball joints connect the suspension to the body and contribute to an even higher level of precision and responsiveness. The adjustable and track-focused suspension received an RS-specific damper setup as well as revised spring and anti-roll bar rates.
Solid bushes, as I read elsewhere.Twinfan said:
johnycarrera said:
It'll be interesting to see what people think of the RS after the initial honeymoon period is over. I can see some people finding it tiring and a bit too manic for anything other than a full-on track session after a good nights sleep!
Over 3.5K miles in now, with another 500-600 to be added over the next week or so.For me its getting better and better.
It is the epitome of Jekyl and Hyde!
With the exhaust and PDK-S off, it is perfect as a daily driver. The sound it makes is perfectly acceptable whilist driving the car around town or on motorway runs. The gear shifts are also perfectly acceptable whilist driving normally.
Press the magic buttons and the car is transformed into an angry beast. The sound it makes then, is intoxicating as you start going over 5K and the instanteous gear changes as you slam on the brakes are glorious.
The ride has now improved greatly with the warmer weather compared to when i was driving it around during the winter months, with the temp hovering around zero. A big part of this was the tyres i guess. Yes hitting big potholes/ poorly surfaced roads does feel slightly unconfortable, but that is not the cars fault....its the crappy roads.
I couldnt be happier with what Porsche have delivered!
rkwm1 said:
Over 3.5K miles in now, with another 500-600 to be added over the next week or so.
For me its getting better and better.
It is the epitome of Jekyl and Hyde!
With the exhaust and PDK-S off, it is perfect as a daily driver. The sound it makes is perfectly acceptable whilist driving the car around town or on motorway runs. The gear shifts are also perfectly acceptable whilist driving normally.
Press the magic buttons and the car is transformed into an angry beast. The sound it makes then, is intoxicating as you start going over 5K and the instanteous gear changes as you slam on the brakes are glorious.
The ride has now improved greatly with the warmer weather compared to when i was driving it around during the winter months, with the temp hovering around zero. A big part of this was the tyres i guess. Yes hitting big potholes/ poorly surfaced roads does feel slightly unconfortable, but that is not the cars fault....its the crappy roads.
I couldnt be happier with what Porsche have delivered!
It could be tyre pressures, but also damper oil temps. Most people don’t realise that damper fluid needs to warm up just like any other fluid in a car and that damper performance does change with temperature. Or at least that is my understanding. For me its getting better and better.
It is the epitome of Jekyl and Hyde!
With the exhaust and PDK-S off, it is perfect as a daily driver. The sound it makes is perfectly acceptable whilist driving the car around town or on motorway runs. The gear shifts are also perfectly acceptable whilist driving normally.
Press the magic buttons and the car is transformed into an angry beast. The sound it makes then, is intoxicating as you start going over 5K and the instanteous gear changes as you slam on the brakes are glorious.
The ride has now improved greatly with the warmer weather compared to when i was driving it around during the winter months, with the temp hovering around zero. A big part of this was the tyres i guess. Yes hitting big potholes/ poorly surfaced roads does feel slightly unconfortable, but that is not the cars fault....its the crappy roads.
I couldnt be happier with what Porsche have delivered!
jackwood said:
It could be tyre pressures, but also damper oil temps. Most people don’t realise that damper fluid needs to warm up just like any other fluid in a car and that damper performance does change with temperature. Or at least that is my understanding.
Yep, that's been my finding with my GT4. From stone cold, it's quite noticeable after a while when the engine oil, gearbox oil and damper oil has all started working properly and all the rough edges smooth off. Being a GT car you notice it more due to the more responsive chassis, sprightlier engine, less sound deadening etc.I really like that about the car, it makes it feel organic and alive
[quote=Twinfan PDKS STUFF .
[/quote]
No…. It’s PDK-S in the GT4 which is different than the non GT models, I did read the Porsche blurb which doesn’t say anything about faster shift speed. It only differentiates between auto and manual modes.
[/quote]
No…. It’s PDK-S in the GT4 which is different than the non GT models, I did read the Porsche blurb which doesn’t say anything about faster shift speed. It only differentiates between auto and manual modes.
Edited by johnycarrera on Tuesday 23 May 15:52
However I’m fairly sure it’s only software at this stage, other than the ratios….
On the subject of PDK my last GTS in sport plus gave you an unsettling thump through the drive train which was defo software, better to drive in sport mode which appeared to change as fast but without the thump which was better balanced mid corner.
PDKS or Sport PDK in my GT4 just changes really fast there’s no thump in regular or S mode (likely for stability)
Really just wondered if somehow they’d given the RS an even faster shift speed, the regular GT4 is lightning fast changes not sure it could be any more instant…
On the subject of PDK my last GTS in sport plus gave you an unsettling thump through the drive train which was defo software, better to drive in sport mode which appeared to change as fast but without the thump which was better balanced mid corner.
PDKS or Sport PDK in my GT4 just changes really fast there’s no thump in regular or S mode (likely for stability)
Really just wondered if somehow they’d given the RS an even faster shift speed, the regular GT4 is lightning fast changes not sure it could be any more instant…
Edited by johnycarrera on Tuesday 23 May 16:03
But that's what I'm saying, it has the full fat PDK electronics. I remember some chat back when PDK was introduced on the GTS/GT4/Spyder that it wasn't the GT3 software system. The same setup was shared across the three cars and obviously the GTS wouldn't get the GT car software.
The GT4RS appears to get the full package - short ratios and the latest and best software.
Sport-PDK, or PDK-S, is not the same as hitting the PDK Sport button in the GTS, GT4 or Spyder.
The GT4RS appears to get the full package - short ratios and the latest and best software.
Sport-PDK, or PDK-S, is not the same as hitting the PDK Sport button in the GTS, GT4 or Spyder.
jackwood said:
rkwm1 said:
Over 3.5K miles in now, with another 500-600 to be added over the next week or so.
For me its getting better and better.
It is the epitome of Jekyl and Hyde!
With the exhaust and PDK-S off, it is perfect as a daily driver. The sound it makes is perfectly acceptable whilist driving the car around town or on motorway runs. The gear shifts are also perfectly acceptable whilist driving normally.
Press the magic buttons and the car is transformed into an angry beast. The sound it makes then, is intoxicating as you start going over 5K and the instanteous gear changes as you slam on the brakes are glorious.
The ride has now improved greatly with the warmer weather compared to when i was driving it around during the winter months, with the temp hovering around zero. A big part of this was the tyres i guess. Yes hitting big potholes/ poorly surfaced roads does feel slightly unconfortable, but that is not the cars fault....its the crappy roads.
I couldnt be happier with what Porsche have delivered!
It could be tyre pressures, but also damper oil temps. Most people don’t realise that damper fluid needs to warm up just like any other fluid in a car and that damper performance does change with temperature. Or at least that is my understanding. For me its getting better and better.
It is the epitome of Jekyl and Hyde!
With the exhaust and PDK-S off, it is perfect as a daily driver. The sound it makes is perfectly acceptable whilist driving the car around town or on motorway runs. The gear shifts are also perfectly acceptable whilist driving normally.
Press the magic buttons and the car is transformed into an angry beast. The sound it makes then, is intoxicating as you start going over 5K and the instanteous gear changes as you slam on the brakes are glorious.
The ride has now improved greatly with the warmer weather compared to when i was driving it around during the winter months, with the temp hovering around zero. A big part of this was the tyres i guess. Yes hitting big potholes/ poorly surfaced roads does feel slightly unconfortable, but that is not the cars fault....its the crappy roads.
I couldnt be happier with what Porsche have delivered!
Twinfan said:
But that's what I'm saying, it has the full fat PDK electronics. I remember some chat back when PDK was introduced on the GTS/GT4/Spyder that it wasn't the GT3 software system. The same setup was shared across the three cars and obviously the GTS wouldn't get the GT car software.
The GT4RS appears to get the full package - short ratios and the latest and best software.
Sport-PDK, or PDK-S, is not the same as hitting the PDK Sport button in the GTS, GT4 or Spyder.
I remember the very chat, it was on here and completely baseless, championed by the…. Ahem manual guys The GT4RS appears to get the full package - short ratios and the latest and best software.
Sport-PDK, or PDK-S, is not the same as hitting the PDK Sport button in the GTS, GT4 or Spyder.
The GT4 doesn’t have a sport or sport plus just two PDK modes same as the GT3
johnycarrera said:
I remember the very chat, it was on here and completely baseless, championed by the…. Ahem manual guys
The GT4 doesn’t have a sport or sport plus just two PDK modes same as the GT3
Having had a 991.2 GT3RS and now a GT4 PDK I can assure you that the gearbox behavior is not the same. The difference isn’t huge, but it is significant ( even if you discount that top speed is reached in 6th gear on the GT4)The GT4 doesn’t have a sport or sport plus just two PDK modes same as the GT3
jackwood said:
It could be tyre pressures, but also damper oil temps. Most people don’t realise that damper fluid needs to warm up just like any other fluid in a car and that damper performance does change with temperature. Or at least that is my understanding.
Yes damper temp definitely makes a difference when starting off from cold. However even once warm the ride was still pretty stiff during the winter months when going over quite bad surfaces, so put that down to tyres.I found 992 GT3T, to be even worse regards dampers warming up in winter months.
Twinfan said:
But that's what I'm saying, it has the full fat PDK electronics. I remember some chat back when PDK was introduced on the GTS/GT4/Spyder that it wasn't the GT3 software system. The same setup was shared across the three cars and obviously the GTS wouldn't get the GT car software.
The GT4RS appears to get the full package - short ratios and the latest and best software.
Sport-PDK, or PDK-S, is not the same as hitting the PDK Sport button in the GTS, GT4 or Spyder.
I read somewhere it is the PDK-S from the 991 GT3RS. The GT4RS appears to get the full package - short ratios and the latest and best software.
Sport-PDK, or PDK-S, is not the same as hitting the PDK Sport button in the GTS, GT4 or Spyder.
rkwm1 said:
I read somewhere it is the PDK-S from the 991 GT3RS.
I don't think it can be as simple as that or you'd have 7 reverse gears and 1 forwards 
I suspect it's a re-worked version of it though, with the appropriate software
Which suggests the same could be done with the manual 'box from the GT3...
The 7-speed PDK used in the GT4 RS is enhanced significantly:
- 1st to 7th gear and constant axle ratio from 991.2 GT3 RS PDK
- Bevel gear with GT4RS-specific design made of high-grade motorsport material
- Limited slip differential from the 991.2 GT3 MT locking values (30% traction / 37% overrun)
- Pressurised oiling of the main shaft bearings via an external oiling line
- Dual mass flywheel from the 982 GT4 Clubsport
- Hydraulic ventilation system analogous to 982 GT4 Clubsport
- PDK control unit and software from 991.2 GT3RS with GT4RS specific application
- Gearshift lever design analogous to 992 GT3
- Gearshift lever actuation from 991.2 GT3RS
- GT4RS-specific selector cable with higher temperature-resistant end piece material
- 1st to 7th gear and constant axle ratio from 991.2 GT3 RS PDK
- Bevel gear with GT4RS-specific design made of high-grade motorsport material
- Limited slip differential from the 991.2 GT3 MT locking values (30% traction / 37% overrun)
- Pressurised oiling of the main shaft bearings via an external oiling line
- Dual mass flywheel from the 982 GT4 Clubsport
- Hydraulic ventilation system analogous to 982 GT4 Clubsport
- PDK control unit and software from 991.2 GT3RS with GT4RS specific application
- Gearshift lever design analogous to 992 GT3
- Gearshift lever actuation from 991.2 GT3RS
- GT4RS-specific selector cable with higher temperature-resistant end piece material
mep59 said:
Having had a 991.2 GT3RS and now a GT4 PDK I can assure you that the gearbox behavior is not the same. The difference isn’t huge, but it is significant ( even if you discount that top speed is reached in 6th gear on the GT4)
What significant (but not huge) behaviour exactly? Genuinely interested as to me it feels the same as the non RS GT3s I’ve driven with regards to shift speed and seamless-ness/ lack of inertia thump of the changes (I’ve not driven the 3RS or 4RS)
Escy said:
I bet the GT4 manual box bolts straight up
Possibly. The official line is that it doesn’t operate properly @ 9k rpm. Let’s not forget… GT4 Manual is many generations old and is actually has its roots as an old Audi diesel gearbox. Lol.
It is also officially torque limited to 420NM.
On face of it doesn’t seem like it would be a big amount of effort to make it work…there is probably a bit more to it.
Was out in a 4RS today @ Zandvoort. Honestly… as much fun as I had in my manual GT4…. I don’t know that I’d miss manual change very much at all with the 4RS engine and PDK. It’s so sharp, and just gives you more options.
That said, the satisfaction of being ‘quick’ whilst managing all of the workload in a manual is something to savour, and really sticks with you.
Edited by TDT on Wednesday 24th May 04:52
My problem with automatics is the satisfaction. Your gran would get the same straight line performance out of it as you, there's no skill, you just put your foot to the floor. The traction control and gearbox do all the work.
The gearbox is impressive from a technological standpoint but not rewarding as a driving tool and surely that's what it's all about? I guess the rest of the package makes up for it.
I wouldn't change the manual gearbox in my car to shave a second off the 1/4 mile time or a couple off a lap time. Getting the gear changes bang on adds to the adrenaline.
The rev limit could be an issue. You'd certainly need to change the ratios / final drive. I doubt the torque limit rating would be a problem. My gearbox is a 987 3.2, I don't know what it's rated for but it won't be more than the GT4's 420nm. I made 730nm last time on the dyno.
The gearbox is impressive from a technological standpoint but not rewarding as a driving tool and surely that's what it's all about? I guess the rest of the package makes up for it.
I wouldn't change the manual gearbox in my car to shave a second off the 1/4 mile time or a couple off a lap time. Getting the gear changes bang on adds to the adrenaline.
The rev limit could be an issue. You'd certainly need to change the ratios / final drive. I doubt the torque limit rating would be a problem. My gearbox is a 987 3.2, I don't know what it's rated for but it won't be more than the GT4's 420nm. I made 730nm last time on the dyno.
I chose a PDK CR before the GT4 and loved it.
However, the manual gearbox in the GT4 was also a lot of fun and a little more tactile and positive on the road. What I then disliked about the PDK on the 991.2 GT3 was the way in which when you accelerated hard in a low gear it was then very slow to change up once the desired speed was reached ... I needed to think about it in a way that the manual had again become something which ran in the sub-conscious ! So quite possibly it is a question of using both the manual and automatic functions of the PDK as I used to in the CR ...I used to drive to work in auto and back in manual !
As for the manual gearbox, I was told (that caveat again) that it was good for 550Nm but I am aware that some pinion gears in the differential have suffered some failures and possibly this is the reason for the bevel gear being upgraded in the GT4RS (if this is the same as the pinion !).
The solution to the pinion failure on heavily used track cars (particularly if an upgraded LSD is fitted) is according to RPM Technik to change the oil more regularly ... with the engine oil. Heat accelerates the degradation of the oil ...
I did change my gearbox oil as part of my running-in service at 1500 miles but then never changed it again up to 29,000 miles and when I changed my final drive ratio I did discover that the case hardening of the pinion was just starting to fail, so maybe this is the limiting factor to the max torque on the GT4 gearbox ... hopefully the new one from RPM Technik will now with due care last the life of the car.
It is worth mentioning that Porsche currently will not supply replacement pinions or pinion shaft bearings and require the fitment of a new gearbox ... the replacement ring gear and pinion from RPM Technik is a much more fun and cheaper solution ... and they also can supply pinion bearings should the original be damaged in exchanging the pinion.
Good old Porsche !
However, the manual gearbox in the GT4 was also a lot of fun and a little more tactile and positive on the road. What I then disliked about the PDK on the 991.2 GT3 was the way in which when you accelerated hard in a low gear it was then very slow to change up once the desired speed was reached ... I needed to think about it in a way that the manual had again become something which ran in the sub-conscious ! So quite possibly it is a question of using both the manual and automatic functions of the PDK as I used to in the CR ...I used to drive to work in auto and back in manual !
As for the manual gearbox, I was told (that caveat again) that it was good for 550Nm but I am aware that some pinion gears in the differential have suffered some failures and possibly this is the reason for the bevel gear being upgraded in the GT4RS (if this is the same as the pinion !).
The solution to the pinion failure on heavily used track cars (particularly if an upgraded LSD is fitted) is according to RPM Technik to change the oil more regularly ... with the engine oil. Heat accelerates the degradation of the oil ...
I did change my gearbox oil as part of my running-in service at 1500 miles but then never changed it again up to 29,000 miles and when I changed my final drive ratio I did discover that the case hardening of the pinion was just starting to fail, so maybe this is the limiting factor to the max torque on the GT4 gearbox ... hopefully the new one from RPM Technik will now with due care last the life of the car.
It is worth mentioning that Porsche currently will not supply replacement pinions or pinion shaft bearings and require the fitment of a new gearbox ... the replacement ring gear and pinion from RPM Technik is a much more fun and cheaper solution ... and they also can supply pinion bearings should the original be damaged in exchanging the pinion.
Good old Porsche !
Edited by ChrisW. on Wednesday 24th May 07:57
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