981 flat battery - advice sought
Discussion
This might be useful ...
If you have an electric car with a "normal" car ancillary battery, it's worth replacing this early. When they fail nothing works, the car is locked in park so can't be moved ... and my wife was locked in !! Thankfully the window was open so she was able to climb out of the window ....
If you have an electric car with a "normal" car ancillary battery, it's worth replacing this early. When they fail nothing works, the car is locked in park so can't be moved ... and my wife was locked in !! Thankfully the window was open so she was able to climb out of the window ....
ChrisW. said:
If you have an electric car with a "normal" car ancillary battery, it's worth replacing this early. When they fail nothing works, the car is locked in park so can't be moved ... and my wife was locked in !! Thankfully the window was open so she was able to climb out of the window ....
That sounds ridiculous (not you, the design), so what happens in an accident?I know they have Pyro fuses to safeguard the high voltage stuff but what maintains the low voltage side to get someone out if the cable is ripped out of the battery (eg)?
ATM said:
I think it's for emissions. My mate is an accountant and he says his e90 had the best cigarette lighter for charging his vape. When he upgraded to an f30 his vape would take longer to charge. I'm not sure I believe that myself.
I think his point is that modern cars don't run the electrics at as high volts as these older cars.
So if the car can make the alternator run softer or more gentle then it will create less drag and therefore improve emissions. But it will charge the battery less and therefore stop start will activate less. So not sure what's best from an eco perspective. I'd guess less drag when running will always win. Maybe if running along the motorway a gentle charger can give the battery enough juice to support stop start once you come to a stop. Otherwise it seems pointless keeping the battery only partially charged.
But yes that's what I was getting at about connecting the charger to the car rather than battery. If the car sees the charger then maybe it is happier to activate the start stop because it knows [or assumes it knows] how much charge the battery has.
I was reading some posts from people using LiFePo4 batteries on their 981 in USA. It seems some people had problems where the car would start to freak out and I think this was caused by the car charging at 15.2v which is too high for some of the internal circuits of some LiFePo4 and they shut off charging. Therefore the battery will effectively go flat all of a sudden and worst case could leave you stranded or best case could upset some of the cars sensors. I did have a steering support error pop up on my dash which I now think could have been caused by a poor battery.
So the 981 can charge at a range as high as 14.9 to 15.2v. I think I've seen 15 on mine but don't remember the decimal. Will keep an eye on it. I'm still trying to figure out a good way to mount a little LiFePo4 so it can't move around.
That is why he is an accountant!I think his point is that modern cars don't run the electrics at as high volts as these older cars.
So if the car can make the alternator run softer or more gentle then it will create less drag and therefore improve emissions. But it will charge the battery less and therefore stop start will activate less. So not sure what's best from an eco perspective. I'd guess less drag when running will always win. Maybe if running along the motorway a gentle charger can give the battery enough juice to support stop start once you come to a stop. Otherwise it seems pointless keeping the battery only partially charged.
But yes that's what I was getting at about connecting the charger to the car rather than battery. If the car sees the charger then maybe it is happier to activate the start stop because it knows [or assumes it knows] how much charge the battery has.
I was reading some posts from people using LiFePo4 batteries on their 981 in USA. It seems some people had problems where the car would start to freak out and I think this was caused by the car charging at 15.2v which is too high for some of the internal circuits of some LiFePo4 and they shut off charging. Therefore the battery will effectively go flat all of a sudden and worst case could leave you stranded or best case could upset some of the cars sensors. I did have a steering support error pop up on my dash which I now think could have been caused by a poor battery.
So the 981 can charge at a range as high as 14.9 to 15.2v. I think I've seen 15 on mine but don't remember the decimal. Will keep an eye on it. I'm still trying to figure out a good way to mount a little LiFePo4 so it can't move around.
Why not just leave it alone, why do people assume they know more than a two bob outfit like Porsche?
We are talking about cars that have been running perfectly well for 8+ years and untold miles with what they left the factory with before needing just a new battery.
981Boxess said:
That is why he is an accountant!
Why not just leave it alone, why do people assume they know more than a two bob outfit like Porsche?
We are talking about cars that have been running perfectly well for 8+ years and untold miles with what they left the factory with before needing just a new battery.
My problem is I now have more cars than good lead acid batteries. I'm not sure I like the idea of buying more lead acid because they are old and rubbish and need constant charging or juggling or maintenance if you don't use the car/s often. Why not just leave it alone, why do people assume they know more than a two bob outfit like Porsche?
We are talking about cars that have been running perfectly well for 8+ years and untold miles with what they left the factory with before needing just a new battery.
ATM said:
981Boxess said:
That is why he is an accountant!
Why not just leave it alone, why do people assume they know more than a two bob outfit like Porsche?
We are talking about cars that have been running perfectly well for 8+ years and untold miles with what they left the factory with before needing just a new battery.
My problem is I now have more cars than good lead acid batteries. I'm not sure I like the idea of buying more lead acid because they are old and rubbish and need constant charging or juggling or maintenance if you don't use the car/s often. Why not just leave it alone, why do people assume they know more than a two bob outfit like Porsche?
We are talking about cars that have been running perfectly well for 8+ years and untold miles with what they left the factory with before needing just a new battery.
981Boxess said:
ChrisW. said:
If you have an electric car with a "normal" car ancillary battery, it's worth replacing this early. When they fail nothing works, the car is locked in park so can't be moved ... and my wife was locked in !! Thankfully the window was open so she was able to climb out of the window ....
That sounds ridiculous (not you, the design), so what happens in an accident?I know they have Pyro fuses to safeguard the high voltage stuff but what maintains the low voltage side to get someone out if the cable is ripped out of the battery (eg)?
Once removed the old battery did charge and for a month or so appeared to hold a charge, but another month later it was back down to 11.4v so clearly it was faulty.
The Kia dealership were useless ... they asked me to get it towed into them and they would sort it out ... but it was parked underneath an implement shed locked in park and blocking my garage doors !! I do wonder why they didn't suggest exchanging the battery ?
981Boxess said:
ATM said:
981Boxess said:
That is why he is an accountant!
Why not just leave it alone, why do people assume they know more than a two bob outfit like Porsche?
We are talking about cars that have been running perfectly well for 8+ years and untold miles with what they left the factory with before needing just a new battery.
My problem is I now have more cars than good lead acid batteries. I'm not sure I like the idea of buying more lead acid because they are old and rubbish and need constant charging or juggling or maintenance if you don't use the car/s often. Why not just leave it alone, why do people assume they know more than a two bob outfit like Porsche?
We are talking about cars that have been running perfectly well for 8+ years and untold miles with what they left the factory with before needing just a new battery.
ChrisW. said:
981Boxess said:
ATM said:
981Boxess said:
That is why he is an accountant!
Why not just leave it alone, why do people assume they know more than a two bob outfit like Porsche?
We are talking about cars that have been running perfectly well for 8+ years and untold miles with what they left the factory with before needing just a new battery.
My problem is I now have more cars than good lead acid batteries. I'm not sure I like the idea of buying more lead acid because they are old and rubbish and need constant charging or juggling or maintenance if you don't use the car/s often. Why not just leave it alone, why do people assume they know more than a two bob outfit like Porsche?
We are talking about cars that have been running perfectly well for 8+ years and untold miles with what they left the factory with before needing just a new battery.
Back to the 981 and it's charging profile...
I went to the gym earlier and the dash showed 15.1v. I intended to get a pic but I forgot. On the way home i remembered to get a pic but then it showed 14.9v which seemed less pic worthy. So that's it for the day.
ChrisW. said:
The Kia dealership were useless ... they asked me to get it towed into them and they would sort it out ... but it was parked underneath an implement shed locked in park and blocking my garage doors !! I do wonder why they didn't suggest exchanging the battery ?
The age old problem you get good ones and bad ones, then inside them you get good and bad staff, it could easily be described as random at best. I spent decades on both sides of the fence, we did work for dealers in our workshop and dealers have done work for me as an end user. As a customer over the years I have experienced levels of service from small mishaps to losing my car, yes really (not Porsche).I won't name the OPC but one I have used and still use provided me with less than great service which they may have got away with with another customer, bad luck. So I spoke to the service manager for an explanation, who was basically repeating what the tech (?) that had worked on my car told him and I could see he was flying blind, so I ask him straight if he had ever worked on car himself ever - no. Can somebody please explain to me how the person in charge of the running of the workshop could do that properly having no knowledge of working on cars?
So a lengthy explanation of why it is easy to have the level of service you received with your Kia, because the vast majority of dealerships employ people many of whom are average, under the direction of people who sometimes don't know about cars. Then factor in cars are getting more complicated by the day and it isn't hard to see where this could possibly be going wrong.
ATM said:
I realise it's a ridiculous problem to have. But luckily this is PH and therefore I am among friends. No one here would dare suggest something as crazy as having less cars. So I soldier on pursuing my dream of having way more cars than my younger self.
I would rather have one mint car, than two average ones.I would rather have two average cars than three scrappers.
See if you can work out where this is going
981Boxess said:
ATM said:
I realise it's a ridiculous problem to have. But luckily this is PH and therefore I am among friends. No one here would dare suggest something as crazy as having less cars. So I soldier on pursuing my dream of having way more cars than my younger self.
I would rather have one mint car, than two average ones.I would rather have two average cars than three scrappers.
See if you can work out where this is going
ATM said:
I don't think my cars can become scrappers just because they are sharing a battery. It also makes them very hard to steal.
The fact none of them ever work does indeed make them harder to steal, in fact, if you lived in London you are probably one of the few people who could own a Range Rover today 
Thanks ALL!
Here's a process on battery replacement on a Porsche 981 (based on thoughts collected - always consult the manual!)
Always consult the manual as the ultimate (but not always correct) source of truth!
Prerequisites to open the door, lift the bonnet (frunk) and replace the battery:
1) A new battery is needed (obviously).
This looks like a compatible battery (maybe): 58001 Banner Running Bull 80Ah AGM Leisure Battery for £178.29 postage included
Note that A Porsche-approved battery comes at a 2x+ premium and if you want/need to, you can contact your dealership or design911.co.uk for a quote. The Porsche-approved battery on design911 was in excess of £370 without any special discount codes.
2) A power source to open the frunk, which can be either:
a) A jump starter. E.g. something like YABER Jump Starter Power Pack for £45 from Amazon. Compact, weather resistant, can charge USB devices too and has a built in flash light with 3 modes. NOTE although this helps to open the frunk, this might not be able to start the engine (not powerful enough), despite what it says in the listing.
OR
b) Use a new battery with a set of jump leads
3) A ratchet with a 13mm socket and an extension rod AND a screwdriver with a star bit. For example Halfords Essentials 50 Piece Socket Set that has all that is needed (although the extension rod could do with being a bit longer, so if you could get a longer one go for it!).
The process:
1) In order to open the frunk and access the old battery, driver's door needs to be opened first. This can be done by using the emergency key located in the fob. I could access the keyhole by pulling the drivers door handle. Manual says 'turn the key all the way to the left' BUT actually in the UK it should be 'all the way to the right'. Once turned, turn the key back into the original position, pull it off, lift the door handle, the door should open. REMEMBER that the window will not lower itself (due to no power in the car) and thus don't try to close the door without powering it first.
2) Pulled out the fuse box that's located at the bottom right (next to pedals). Some force was needed to pull it out. As per the manual, pulled out the yellow tweezers at the top of the fuse box, and then used those to pull out the red plastic bit just below the tweezers.
3) Per the manual, connected the jump starter RED crocodile clip to the metal of the red plastic bit of the fuse box, and then the BLACK crocodile clip to the door hinge. Some parts of the hinge ARE NOT METAL although looks like metal: it has to connect to metal otherwise the jump starter will not work.
Alternatively, shouldn't be a problem using the new battery for the same, if no jump started was purchased.
4) Once the fuse box was powered, as per the manual, pressed and hold the 'frunk open' key on the fob for SEVERAL SECONDS - the frunk did open! Then immediately disconnected the jump starter from the fuse box (in the correct order as per the manual, very important!!) and closed the fuse box to its original state.
5) Followed this video to remove the old battery and put the new one in using the tools mentioned above.
WARNING - the battery is VERY HEAVY! Over 21kg.
Here's a process on battery replacement on a Porsche 981 (based on thoughts collected - always consult the manual!)
Always consult the manual as the ultimate (but not always correct) source of truth!
Prerequisites to open the door, lift the bonnet (frunk) and replace the battery:
1) A new battery is needed (obviously).
This looks like a compatible battery (maybe): 58001 Banner Running Bull 80Ah AGM Leisure Battery for £178.29 postage included
Note that A Porsche-approved battery comes at a 2x+ premium and if you want/need to, you can contact your dealership or design911.co.uk for a quote. The Porsche-approved battery on design911 was in excess of £370 without any special discount codes.
2) A power source to open the frunk, which can be either:
a) A jump starter. E.g. something like YABER Jump Starter Power Pack for £45 from Amazon. Compact, weather resistant, can charge USB devices too and has a built in flash light with 3 modes. NOTE although this helps to open the frunk, this might not be able to start the engine (not powerful enough), despite what it says in the listing.
OR
b) Use a new battery with a set of jump leads
3) A ratchet with a 13mm socket and an extension rod AND a screwdriver with a star bit. For example Halfords Essentials 50 Piece Socket Set that has all that is needed (although the extension rod could do with being a bit longer, so if you could get a longer one go for it!).
The process:
1) In order to open the frunk and access the old battery, driver's door needs to be opened first. This can be done by using the emergency key located in the fob. I could access the keyhole by pulling the drivers door handle. Manual says 'turn the key all the way to the left' BUT actually in the UK it should be 'all the way to the right'. Once turned, turn the key back into the original position, pull it off, lift the door handle, the door should open. REMEMBER that the window will not lower itself (due to no power in the car) and thus don't try to close the door without powering it first.
2) Pulled out the fuse box that's located at the bottom right (next to pedals). Some force was needed to pull it out. As per the manual, pulled out the yellow tweezers at the top of the fuse box, and then used those to pull out the red plastic bit just below the tweezers.
3) Per the manual, connected the jump starter RED crocodile clip to the metal of the red plastic bit of the fuse box, and then the BLACK crocodile clip to the door hinge. Some parts of the hinge ARE NOT METAL although looks like metal: it has to connect to metal otherwise the jump starter will not work.
Alternatively, shouldn't be a problem using the new battery for the same, if no jump started was purchased.
4) Once the fuse box was powered, as per the manual, pressed and hold the 'frunk open' key on the fob for SEVERAL SECONDS - the frunk did open! Then immediately disconnected the jump starter from the fuse box (in the correct order as per the manual, very important!!) and closed the fuse box to its original state.
5) Followed this video to remove the old battery and put the new one in using the tools mentioned above.
WARNING - the battery is VERY HEAVY! Over 21kg.
Edited by stewieyan on Wednesday 3rd January 17:42
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