718 review - test drove today
Discussion
I get the not been thrashed bit, but the warranty piece of mind is purely psychological..
Generally, an older Porsche offsets any maintenance by a lower depreciation and overall ownership cost.
The smartest buy right now is a nearly new 981 GTS. Awesome car, low ownership cost.
But if you have to have a new car.....
Generally, an older Porsche offsets any maintenance by a lower depreciation and overall ownership cost.
The smartest buy right now is a nearly new 981 GTS. Awesome car, low ownership cost.
But if you have to have a new car.....
FrankCayman said:
ORD said:
987 looks better than both of them, anyway. Well, the Cayman does. The 987 Boxster is ugly.
Weird, as I thought my 987 gen 1 Boxster looked loads nicer than my 987 gen 2 Cayman.And my 981 Cayman looks better than both of them.......but then, I may change my opinion as the years go on....I tend to do that!!!
I love the looks of the 981 Cayman and think the 982 looks a little fussy at the rear compared to it. This is of course biased, as I have a 981 . . .
If it were possible to mix and match the best bits of all three iterations we might get a car that suits everyone, but then what would we discuss/argue/fall out/sulk/insult one another over?
JasonSteel said:
that's fair enough. but i can't help asking myself why the total focus on the engine and none - whatsoever - on the chassis?
does an improved chassis, brakes and so on not add something to the drive, and why aren't you all driving Caymans instead of Boxsters anyway? the former has a much more rigid chassis and so from a 'purist' point of view should be chosen over the latter.
on point of principle, isn't the chassis, if anything, more important than the engine? and does a convertible even have a place on the race track?
this isn't aimed at you specifically BTW RSVP911. just genuine curiosity.
I guess different things are important to different people - you're right to mention the chassis though : for me , this combined with a lovely naturally aspirated flat 6 , is what Porsche is and always was , all about . I guess I just think it's such a shame . I imagine I'm not alone , I'm sure the engineers at Porsche hate it more than me - they must be really pissed off that the emissions rules are driving them down this compromised route - it's like making an amazing chef cook with crap ingredients , with one arm tied behind their back. Anyway that's life does an improved chassis, brakes and so on not add something to the drive, and why aren't you all driving Caymans instead of Boxsters anyway? the former has a much more rigid chassis and so from a 'purist' point of view should be chosen over the latter.
on point of principle, isn't the chassis, if anything, more important than the engine? and does a convertible even have a place on the race track?
this isn't aimed at you specifically BTW RSVP911. just genuine curiosity.
Edited by JasonSteel on Wednesday 25th May 14:29
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Ultimately, its the regs. You know they cant sell a lower powered car. It would be suicide.So, they have to up the power and performance by the means available to them. And so you have the 718 with a 4 cylinder turbo engine.
The core buyers are just fine with that.
Two reasons the 718 is more feminine...
1/ It carries it's own ironing board to the rear...
2/ The Beetle has the same ironing board...
I've noticed the publicity photos generally try to disguise the hugeness of the 718's rear sticky-outey spoiler via the camera angle. With no rear light integration from the 981 design it sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Here's a couple of side on views...
1/ It carries it's own ironing board to the rear...
2/ The Beetle has the same ironing board...
I've noticed the publicity photos generally try to disguise the hugeness of the 718's rear sticky-outey spoiler via the camera angle. With no rear light integration from the 981 design it sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Here's a couple of side on views...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Semantics from cmoose? Surely not.I guess its chicken and egg, no? I guess you see the root cause being the customer. I disagree, you flatter the customer way too much. You and me are not the core customer. You know that.
I guess its neither one nor the other, its far more subtle than that. Its er...progress!
An interesting post as always cmoose, but I still think you are not seeing the full picture. Its not driven by customers, lets face it, most are simpletons who have little idea of what they want and are more interested in what they believe they should want. And of course what they think they should be seen in, That should do it.....
Porsche could probably make a 6 hit the numbers but why should they? Its easier and more profitable to meet the regs and develop the POWER with a turbo 4. Porsche are a business and want to sell cars. They are doing that! With bells on.
Porsche could probably make a 6 hit the numbers but why should they? Its easier and more profitable to meet the regs and develop the POWER with a turbo 4. Porsche are a business and want to sell cars. They are doing that! With bells on.
Any company that's not driven by customers won't last very long.
Let's be honest cars in this category are just fashion accessories. None of us need a Porsche, it's just pandering to our egos. Some of us like to think we're enthusiasts and others just posers. Porsche's job is to sort out the Venn diagram to make sure they capture as many from both camps as possible.
Let's be honest cars in this category are just fashion accessories. None of us need a Porsche, it's just pandering to our egos. Some of us like to think we're enthusiasts and others just posers. Porsche's job is to sort out the Venn diagram to make sure they capture as many from both camps as possible.
Sparkyhd said:
Any company that's not driven by customers won't last very long.
Let's be honest cars in this category are just fashion accessories. None of us need a Porsche, it's just pandering to our egos. Some of us like to think we're enthusiasts and others just posers. Porsche's job is to sort out the Venn diagram to make sure they capture as many from both camps as possible.
Yep, totally agree with that.Let's be honest cars in this category are just fashion accessories. None of us need a Porsche, it's just pandering to our egos. Some of us like to think we're enthusiasts and others just posers. Porsche's job is to sort out the Venn diagram to make sure they capture as many from both camps as possible.
Its a business. But.......it used to be a different type of business.....
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I already went round the houses with moose on this a couple of weeks ago on the last page here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...Once you get to the semantics of it, it's essentially Porsche taking a punt on whether customers prefer character, or much more power and lower emissions. Whichever way you cut it, emissions regs are driving it directly or indirectly. IMO:
1) anyone buying a new Cayster or 911 does not give a stuff about emissions within reason so long as they're broadly similar to other offerings and what came before. If you suddenly tried to flog them E60 M5 consumption levels of 15mpg, you'd struggle, but not an upgraded 911 with 420 instead of 400 that does a completely fictitious 1mpg more
2) there has been no game changer that all of a sudden means Porsche cannot sell cars that are somewhat under-powered compared to their rivals. It was ever thus. If you want mega power for <£100K new, Porsche is not the company for you.
Personally I think they jumped ship too early, especially with the Cayster. The 981 got such rave reviews when it came out that there was almost no scope to f*ck up a 981.2 if they followed something along the lines of what I posted further up this page. Then, for the 2019 car (or whenever it's due), add some electric hybrid tech which would reduce emissions, increase performance and allow it to keep its sportcar character. Instead we've got this horrible temporary compromise.
Mario149 said:
I already went round the houses with moose on this a couple of weeks ago on the last page here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Once you get to the semantics of it, it's essentially Porsche taking a punt on whether customers prefer character, or much more power and lower emissions. Whichever way you cut it, emissions regs are driving it directly or indirectly. IMO:
1) anyone buying a new Cayster or 911 does not give a stuff about emissions within reason so long as they're broadly similar to other offerings and what came before. If you suddenly tried to flog them E60 M5 consumption levels of 15mpg, you'd struggle, but not an upgraded 911 with 420 instead of 400 that does a completely fictitious 1mpg more
2) there has been no game changer that all of a sudden means Porsche cannot sell cars that are somewhat under-powered compared to their rivals. It was ever thus. If you want mega power for <£100K new, Porsche is not the company for you.
Personally I think they jumped ship too early, especially with the Cayster. The 981 got such rave reviews when it came out that there was almost no scope to f*ck up a 981.2 if they followed something along the lines of what I posted further up this page. Then, for the 2019 car (or whenever it's due), add some electric hybrid tech which would reduce emissions, increase performance and allow it to keep its sportcar character. Instead we've got this horrible temporary compromise.
I'm not convinced either that they needed more power as such, but having gone the turbo 4 route, knowing it would be controversial, I think they must have felt the needed to offer something in compensation - headline power and performance figures.Once you get to the semantics of it, it's essentially Porsche taking a punt on whether customers prefer character, or much more power and lower emissions. Whichever way you cut it, emissions regs are driving it directly or indirectly. IMO:
1) anyone buying a new Cayster or 911 does not give a stuff about emissions within reason so long as they're broadly similar to other offerings and what came before. If you suddenly tried to flog them E60 M5 consumption levels of 15mpg, you'd struggle, but not an upgraded 911 with 420 instead of 400 that does a completely fictitious 1mpg more
2) there has been no game changer that all of a sudden means Porsche cannot sell cars that are somewhat under-powered compared to their rivals. It was ever thus. If you want mega power for <£100K new, Porsche is not the company for you.
Personally I think they jumped ship too early, especially with the Cayster. The 981 got such rave reviews when it came out that there was almost no scope to f*ck up a 981.2 if they followed something along the lines of what I posted further up this page. Then, for the 2019 car (or whenever it's due), add some electric hybrid tech which would reduce emissions, increase performance and allow it to keep its sportcar character. Instead we've got this horrible temporary compromise.
But I also think that a significant driver in the choice of turbo 4 is to distance the Caysters from the much more profitable 911s. Far too many reviews were saying that it was very difficult to justify a 911 over a 981.
Mosse's point is sound though... Like the V8 M3 plenty of 981 owners moan that they found it difficult to make progress in stop start/slow traffic and accessing the power generally.
Now I'm not going to stir the pot by suggesting who the real enthusiasts are but there plenty here who now love the F4/don't care about the engine... They say it must be better because getting from here to there just got easier... just mash the throttle and off we go. Why would you want to struggle with that F6, putting all that effort to make progress and put up with the noise?
With the F4 it's easier. And l see that word a lot. It's easier to drive, easier to go faster. You don't have to try. Personally the things I've found really rewarding have been difficult to do and the easy things not very rewarding. They just get done.
Porsche have kept their main Boxster customer base happy. 2 of my friends have 987 Boxsters and they have now idea what great cars they have... One of the 2 has a Boxster & an RCZ... he honestly believes his RCZ is the better drivers car! I said there must be something wrong with his Box but he wouldn't have it. They just love that they have a Porsche.
Porsche won't have to 'push' the 718's too hard... It's got more hp/torque, better braking, it's faster than the 981, it's 16secs faster at the 'Ring and of course... It's easier to drive. Go on, just stick your pinky in, give it a try and you'll see what we mean.
Most will be hooked... The more discerning F6 customer prefers to work for his hit the old fashioned way.
Now I'm not going to stir the pot by suggesting who the real enthusiasts are but there plenty here who now love the F4/don't care about the engine... They say it must be better because getting from here to there just got easier... just mash the throttle and off we go. Why would you want to struggle with that F6, putting all that effort to make progress and put up with the noise?
With the F4 it's easier. And l see that word a lot. It's easier to drive, easier to go faster. You don't have to try. Personally the things I've found really rewarding have been difficult to do and the easy things not very rewarding. They just get done.
Porsche have kept their main Boxster customer base happy. 2 of my friends have 987 Boxsters and they have now idea what great cars they have... One of the 2 has a Boxster & an RCZ... he honestly believes his RCZ is the better drivers car! I said there must be something wrong with his Box but he wouldn't have it. They just love that they have a Porsche.
Porsche won't have to 'push' the 718's too hard... It's got more hp/torque, better braking, it's faster than the 981, it's 16secs faster at the 'Ring and of course... It's easier to drive. Go on, just stick your pinky in, give it a try and you'll see what we mean.
Most will be hooked... The more discerning F6 customer prefers to work for his hit the old fashioned way.
Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 26th May 20:43
I don't think its about regs or indeed about customer desires... 99% of customers don't care whats under the bonnet, so Porsche can stick anything they want under there and still sell. For me this is Porsche management making a conscious decision to properly segregate the 718s from the 911s. You want a real Porsche? - you have to buy the expensive 911 now.
cypriot said:
I don't think its about regs or indeed about customer desires... 99% of customers don't care whats under the bonnet, so Porsche can stick anything they want under there and still sell. For me this is Porsche management making a conscious decision to properly segregate the 718s from the 911s. You want a real Porsche? - you have to buy the expensive 911 now.
^ This. The marketing logic is sound, especially as they're branding them 718s now. Two different ranges, two different engines.cypriot said:
I don't think its about regs or indeed about customer desires... 99% of customers don't care whats under the bonnet, so Porsche can stick anything they want under there and still sell. For me this is Porsche management making a conscious decision to properly segregate the 718s from the 911s. You want a real Porsche? - you have to buy the expensive 911 now.
Good point cypriot, probably an element of market re-positioning going on; with other factors mentioned in this thread, thrown in for good measure. I'm not sure what Mr average Cayster buyer wants from this car but just taking a small sample from this forum it is clear that there are a few divided camps: from 'Flat Earther's' like myself, to someone buying a Porsche for the first time, who has no idea about the technical underpinnings and many more besides. Porsche certainly analyse what is the best way to broaden their potential sales spectrum, so the odd beard has no bearing on overall success of this latest generation. If the sales decline, only then will Porsche change their strategy. Problem they now have though, is the shared VAG platforms and with that the senior VAG directors perhaps having a large say in just how free Porsche are to deviate from the groups intended course.
Edited by CarreraLightweightRacing on Thursday 26th May 11:59
cypriot said:
I don't think its about regs or indeed about customer desires... 99% of customers don't care whats under the bonnet, so Porsche can stick anything they want under there and still sell. For me this is Porsche management making a conscious decision to properly segregate the 718s from the 911s. You want a real Porsche? - you have to buy the expensive 911 now.
+ 1cypriot said:
For me this is Porsche management making a conscious decision to properly segregate the 718s from the 911s. You want a real Porsche? - you have to buy the expensive 911 now.
Yep. The 718 project manager explicitly mentioned in an interview that widening the gap between the "entry level and rear engined cars" was one of the main goals of the 718's engine development.Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff