The new 718 Gt4/Spyder are here!

[Porsche911R]

bigmowley said:

Each to their own boys. We all know what you two like.

I just made a statement of fact from Porsches figures, nothing more.

[gpgts]

bigmowley said:

Each to their own boys. We all know what you two like.

Agree. For those who believe in the art and beauty of driving a true manual, no explanation is necessary, for those who do not, no explanation is possible.

[Twinfan]

It would be interesting to see how my car with its LWFW compares to a PDK version. It certainly feels quicker than it was and revs through the gears better than it did

[Sandy59]

gpgts said:

Agree. For those who believe in the art and beauty of driving a true manual, no explanation is necessary, for those who do not, no explanation is possible.

I like a manual but I think I like PDK just as much, I find I can have great fun in both - maybe something wrong with me

[bigmowley]

av185 said:

As will the parasitic losses of the PDK box and extra 30 kg weight of PDK box on DIN.

Odd thing those parasitic losses! PDK cars all have a better CO2 performance to go along with their superior acceleration figures, just saying

[Taffy66]

bigmowley said:

Odd thing those parasitic losses! PDK cars all have a better CO2 performance to go along with their superior acceleration figures, just saying

Parasitic losses vary considerably between transmissions with dual clutch boxes now extremely efficient at transferring power to the wheels. On the PDKS in the GT3 losses are about 1-2% which translates to 5-10HP at maximum power on 8.5k revs. However as the gearing is lower on the PDK and the absence of an overdrive 7th gear these losses are more than mitigated.
Lowering gearing is a torque multiplier and coupled with no loss of power between shifts makes the PDK faster than the Manual in nearly all situations. The trouble with the PDK in the GT4 is its the normal version with an overdrive 7th gear in complete contrast to the stronger and lighter PDKS in the GT3 where the 7th gear is a true gear.
Another point is that the not inconsiderable 30kg extra weight of the GT4's PDK counts against it before even taking into account the £2k it costs.
It would be a Manual GT4 for me every time however still swayed for the better no cost PDKS on the GT3.

[Melvynr]

av185 said:

Only 5th and 6th are very slightly different.

The first four gears are identical (although 4th is 1.344 in the man and 1.34 in the PDK) and the 5th and 6th gears very similar (1.081 and 0.881 man v 1.11 and 0.96 PDK respectively)

On paper it can say what it wants, the first 4 gears of the manual pulls as high as 10 mph in 4th gear over the pdk, that is longer gearing in my book.

[Porsche911R]

bigmowley said:

Odd thing those parasitic losses! PDK cars all have a better CO2 performance to go along with their superior acceleration figures, just saying

cars are tested in 7th which would be low revs, when you keep saying superior acceleration figures, the PDK is slower 100-200 kph.

so 1 /10th slower in the PDk but then 2 shifts which gains 4/10th over aflat shift so PDK is 0.5 seconds slower in gear which is quite a lot, only the PDK is brining it back and it still loses to the manual.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 24th November 09:51

[bigmowley]

Porsche911R said:

bigmowley said:

Odd thing those parasitic losses! PDK cars all have a better CO2 performance to go along with their superior acceleration figures, just saying

cars are tested in 7th which would be low revs, when you keep saying superior acceleration figures, the PDK is slower 100-200 kph.

so 1 /10th slower in the PDk but then 2 shifts which gains 4/10th over aflat shift so PDK is 0.5 seconds slower in gear which is quite a lot, only the PDK is brining it back and it still loses to the manual.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 24th November 09:51

Where has you disclaimer gone, I was quite enjoying that

Obviously you drive a lot of the time accelerating between 60 and 120 mph in your life. However I spend a lot more time accelerating between 0 and 60 or thereabouts in mine and I will settle for the much quicker time, and more lively feel ta.

As ever each to their own and all that

Ps no smart arse answers on the lower CO2 emissions yet for the “less efficient, heavier” transmission then? Come on

[MannyLon]

bigmowley said:

Where has you disclaimer gone, I was quite enjoying that

Obviously you drive a lot of the time accelerating between 60 and 120 mph in your life. However I spend a lot more time accelerating between 0 and 60 or thereabouts in mine and I will settle for the much quicker time, and more lively feel ta.

As ever each to their own and all that

Ps no smart arse answers on the lower CO2 emissions yet for the “less efficient, heavier” transmission then? Come on

How does an auto box give a "more lively feel"?
Please define "much quicker time"?

[Twinfan]

MannyLon said:

How does an auto box give a "more lively feel"?
Please define "much quicker time"?

Indeed.

The PDK car is quicker 0-62 via launch control and a single gear change and it's one for the pub for the Top Trumps stats lovers. Once rolling I don't think there's much between the cars as evidenced by the manual car being quicker from 100-200kph.

[Romo]

Too much negative debate PDK vs MT going on IMHO.

What I do like, the 7th gear PDK 718 is not as long as the 981 PDK version, I always felt the 981 7th was out of proportion.

So it looks better now.

[av185]

Interesting that Porsche saw fit to charge £2778 for the cage and £2000 for basic PDK despite the £10k price increase of the 718 over the 981 GT4 and despite these options both being free on the GT3 which even has PDK S.

Edited by av185 on Tuesday 24th November 11:36

[MannyLon]

av185 said:

Interesting that Porsche saw fit to charge £2778 for the cage and £2000 for basic PDK despite the £10k price increase of the 718 over the 981 GT4 and despite these options both being free on the GT3 which even has PDK S.

Edited by av185 on Tuesday 24th November 11:36

Porsche, the masters of marketing and money making. As a watch collector they remind me of Rolex..

[bigmowley]

Twinfan said:

Indeed.

The PDK car is quicker 0-62 via launch control and a single gear change and it's one for the pub for the Top Trumps stats lovers. Once rolling I don't think there's much between the cars as evidenced by the manual car being quicker from 100-200kph.

Both cars have 1 gear change to 60mph (0.5sec quicker), its also quicker to 100mph (0.4Sec) and to 125mph (0.4 Sec).
I have not seen the performance data for the in gear performance or any 100 to 200kph times. Not seen a 1/4 mile stat yet.

I have watched 2 admittedly crappy you tube videos, neither from a particularly trustworthy source, both of which remarked on how the car feels more lively as PDK. One is linked a page or so up. I fully expect the car to feel better (to me) with lower gearing, a tiny bit more torque and PDK shift. I am delighted its available and have my money down and will be happy to wave my Manual 718 Spyder bye bye once the new one turns up.

For me the PDK transmission is an excellent bit of engineering and I absolutely love driving it. I nearly always use it in manual mode with the fastest shift pattern enabled. However I like to have the option to pop in into auto super smooth mode for driving through traffic or to simply waft the miles away.

It is horses for courses and I fully appreciate that some people prefer a manual.

What I really want is a GT4 RS with PDK-S but I dont think that is going to happen!

[av185]

MannyLon said:

av185 said:

Interesting that Porsche saw fit to charge £2778 for the cage and £2000 for basic PDK despite the £10k price increase of the 718 over the 981 GT4 and despite these options both being free on the GT3 which even has PDK S.

Edited by av185 on Tuesday 24th November 11:36

Porsche, the masters of marketing and money making. As a watch collector they remind me of Rolex..

Maybe in some aspects but there is no denying they make brilliant GT cars.

[Porsche911R]

bigmowley said:

Porsche911R said:

bigmowley said:

Odd thing those parasitic losses! PDK cars all have a better CO2 performance to go along with their superior acceleration figures, just saying

cars are tested in 7th which would be low revs, when you keep saying superior acceleration figures, the PDK is slower 100-200 kph.

so 1 /10th slower in the PDk but then 2 shifts which gains 4/10th over aflat shift so PDK is 0.5 seconds slower in gear which is quite a lot, only the PDK is brining it back and it still loses to the manual.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 24th November 09:51

Where has you disclaimer gone, I was quite enjoying that

Obviously you drive a lot of the time accelerating between 60 and 120 mph in your life. However I spend a lot more time accelerating between 0 and 60 or thereabouts in mine and I will settle for the much quicker time, and more lively feel ta.

As ever each to their own and all that

Ps no smart arse answers on the lower CO2 emissions yet for the “less efficient, heavier” transmission then? Come on

I do use my disclaimer when it's an opinion in every post now, but that was a statement of fact which don't need it ;-)

I don't launch any car I own or ever will, so yes I am driving 60-124 mph in the main for fun and on any track day I would be in the same ball park.

I am not sure what you are doing to enjoy 0-60 and launch control at WOT. But that part of driving holds no interest to me, but yes that is just my own opinion and how I like to drive. Every one is free to be the traffic light king.

[MannyLon]

All this talk of 0 - 60 times is really a hot hatch debate. If you want straight line speed, the GT4 is probably the wrong car for you as turbos + 4WD are probably better for this.

[Melvynr]

Porsche911R said:

cars are tested in 7th which would be low revs, when you keep saying superior acceleration figures, the PDK is slower 100-200 kph.

so 1 /10th slower in the PDk but then 2 shifts which gains 4/10th over aflat shift so PDK is 0.5 seconds slower in gear which is quite a lot, only the PDK is brining it back and it still loses to the manual.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 24th November 09:51

It may be quicker, but the race is already won from 0-200kpm with pdk, is it not?

[finmac]

For me, the PDK V Manual debate is really simple. I want to drive my car and enjoy as many of the miles as possible. While I came close to buying a 991:1GT3 twice last summer I’m glad I waited for and got a new GT4 instead as while the GT3 CS was a stunning thing the box just ruined it as an experience for me.