The new 718 Gt4/Spyder are here!
Discussion
bigmowley said:
I have not seen the performance data for the in gear performance or any 100 to 200kph times. Not seen a 1/4 mile stat yet.
Quite a lot of data here, and it doesn't seem to be as clear cut as you're saying. Pros and cons to each gearbox, as always:https://zeperfs.com/en/fiche8822-porsche-718-cayma...
https://zeperfs.com/en/fiche7988-porsche-718-cayma...
Gearbox question on 718 GT4 
I only test drove a 981 GT4 and only on the street (not on track). The manual gearbox itself felt awesome; but gearing was indeed long and a shame that you don't use that great gearbox a lot when driving on curvy mountain roads. So in comes the 718 GT4; that you now can order with manual or PDK (sadly not PDK S). Me personally I really like manual gearboxes (have a manual M2 as a daily), but I don't hate DCT/PDK/DKG gearboxes (have DCT Alpine A110 in the garage for fun).
When ordering a 718 GT4 with his main purpose being track duty, would you get a manual or PDK GT4? I was thinking that for track maybe the long (manual) gearing is not that big of an issue because speeds are higher then on the street and there is still the added involvement of the manual shifts. Or would PDK be the preferred choice when it's a mainly track used GT4? Yes; I know gearbox choice is a personal thing...but just curious to hear different opinions from GT4/Spyder owners and future owners.
I only test drove a 981 GT4 and only on the street (not on track). The manual gearbox itself felt awesome; but gearing was indeed long and a shame that you don't use that great gearbox a lot when driving on curvy mountain roads. So in comes the 718 GT4; that you now can order with manual or PDK (sadly not PDK S). Me personally I really like manual gearboxes (have a manual M2 as a daily), but I don't hate DCT/PDK/DKG gearboxes (have DCT Alpine A110 in the garage for fun). When ordering a 718 GT4 with his main purpose being track duty, would you get a manual or PDK GT4? I was thinking that for track maybe the long (manual) gearing is not that big of an issue because speeds are higher then on the street and there is still the added involvement of the manual shifts. Or would PDK be the preferred choice when it's a mainly track used GT4? Yes; I know gearbox choice is a personal thing...but just curious to hear different opinions from GT4/Spyder owners and future owners.
Franzino said:
Gearbox question on 718 GT4 I only test drove a 981 GT4 and only on the street (not on track). The manual gearbox itself felt awesome; but gearing was indeed long and a shame that you don't use that great gearbox a lot when driving on curvy mountain roads. So in comes the 718 GT4; that you now can order with manual or PDK (sadly not PDK S). Me personally I really like manual gearboxes (have a manual M2 as a daily), but I don't hate DCT/PDK/DKG gearboxes (have DCT Alpine A110 in the garage for fun).
When ordering a 718 GT4 with his main purpose being track duty, would you get a manual or PDK GT4? I was thinking that for track maybe the long (manual) gearing is not that big of an issue because speeds are higher then on the street and there is still the added involvement of the manual shifts. Or would PDK be the preferred choice when it's a mainly track used GT4? Yes; I know gearbox choice is a personal thing...but just curious to hear different opinions from GT4/Spyder owners and future owners.
Manual for me, as I love heel and toe, even though I mess it up sometimes. Also, the gearbox has a nice feel to it. I'm sure it'll be very good on longer tracks like the Ring and Spa.. I only test drove a 981 GT4 and only on the street (not on track). The manual gearbox itself felt awesome; but gearing was indeed long and a shame that you don't use that great gearbox a lot when driving on curvy mountain roads. So in comes the 718 GT4; that you now can order with manual or PDK (sadly not PDK S). Me personally I really like manual gearboxes (have a manual M2 as a daily), but I don't hate DCT/PDK/DKG gearboxes (have DCT Alpine A110 in the garage for fun). When ordering a 718 GT4 with his main purpose being track duty, would you get a manual or PDK GT4? I was thinking that for track maybe the long (manual) gearing is not that big of an issue because speeds are higher then on the street and there is still the added involvement of the manual shifts. Or would PDK be the preferred choice when it's a mainly track used GT4? Yes; I know gearbox choice is a personal thing...but just curious to hear different opinions from GT4/Spyder owners and future owners.
Melvynr said:
It may be quicker, but the race is already won from 0-200kpm with pdk, is it not?
On track or any B road you never are at 0 mph ! see your above post of 0-60 runs.Porsche have published the in gear speeds, it's in black and white in gear the manual cars faster even with longer ratio's but that's a given with more weight and parasitic losses the PDK car has.
As always the gearbox is a choice of the buyer nothing more. Even with it's fast shifts which are amazing, it's still not enough to claw back the manuals advantage once moving.
The perfect GT4 for me is one in manual with a short ratio box, but that's not an option or is a £10k spend and no warranty.
I have ruled out the GTS 4.0l atm and not making an order as I know the long ratio's will annoy me and the PDK I'll find dull as dish water.
It's nice we have a choice now but the cars still flawed at these prices in either box. A PDK car should be on paper a faster car every where so imo should have had a BHP tweak to at least match a manual car in gear.
The ave person of course will be a lot faster in a PDK car as they take 0.5 second to swap the cogs and there is a lot more thinking time etc in the manuals to get the best from them and that's why I find that enjoyable, where a PDK does it all for you.
"As always, most of that is all my own personal view and should never be taken as fact or mis quoted, other views will and are available, I am happy to debate as always as long as people and personal comments are not made as that will not be responded too."
Porsche911R said:
cars are tested in 7th which would be low revs, when you keep saying superior acceleration figures, the PDK is slower 100-200 kph.
so 1 /10th slower in the PDk but then 2 shifts which gains 4/10th over aflat shift so PDK is 0.5 seconds slower in gear which is quite a lot, only the PDK is brining it back and it still loses to the manual.
Just don't know where you get your info from.so 1 /10th slower in the PDk but then 2 shifts which gains 4/10th over aflat shift so PDK is 0.5 seconds slower in gear which is quite a lot, only the PDK is brining it back and it still loses to the manual.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 24th November 09:51
PDK 991.2 GT3-----100-200kpm=6.8 secs
0-200kpm=10.748 secs
Manual 991.2 GT3--100-200kpm=7.34 secs
0-200kpm=11.4 secs
Get your stop watch out and do it.
https://youtu.be/O_iZScWF_JA
https://youtu.be/Ia1Lv_kCof
MannyLon said:
Manual for me, as I love heel and toe, even though I mess it up sometimes. Also, the gearbox has a nice feel to it. I'm sure it'll be very good on longer tracks like the Ring and Spa..
The manual box on the 718 GT4 like the 981 GT4 before it and the 991.2 GT3 is certainly one of Porsches best manual gearboxes in terms of action and weighting although the clutch like the GT3 is too light for some including myself however this doesn't detract from the increased interactive manual car experience and some actually prefer a less weighty clutch due to health reasons etc.The tallish gears of the 718 are far less of a problem than the 981 due to the newer cars torque punching at lower revs.
I don't mind PDK on the right car and would probably see it as a bonus for anyone who uses the GT4 more for a daily for commuting and stop start city traffic driving as opposed to fun weekend driving etc.
Melvynr said:
Porsche911R said:
cars are tested in 7th which would be low revs, when you keep saying superior acceleration figures, the PDK is slower 100-200 kph.
so 1 /10th slower in the PDk but then 2 shifts which gains 4/10th over aflat shift so PDK is 0.5 seconds slower in gear which is quite a lot, only the PDK is brining it back and it still loses to the manual.
Just don't know where you get your info from.so 1 /10th slower in the PDk but then 2 shifts which gains 4/10th over aflat shift so PDK is 0.5 seconds slower in gear which is quite a lot, only the PDK is brining it back and it still loses to the manual.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 24th November 09:51
PDK 991.2 GT3-----100-200kpm=6.8 secs
0-200kpm=10.748 secs
Manual 991.2 GT3--100-200kpm=7.34 secs
0-200kpm=11.4 secs
Get your stop watch out and do it.
https://youtu.be/O_iZScWF_JA
https://youtu.be/Ia1Lv_kCof
Think we've covered this before those manual times aren't flatshifting.
And my official GT3 manual gives 11 seconds for the PDK car to 200kmph.
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 24th November 12:57
Melvynr said:
Just don't know where you get your info from.
this is a GT4/Spyder thread and thus I got the info in the posts above which I hope is correct as I did not cross reference it as some one must have found the states from Porsche web site on the new PDK in gear times.this is NOT a GT3 debate or has anything to do with GT3's.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 24th November 13:10
981C said:
Just to stoke the PDK vs. Man debate fire a little further, I've read the PDK differential has a higher locking percentage.
Porsche said "we have fixed the long gearing, buy a PDK"That is the choice today, buy a long geared manual or take a lot of the interaction out and buy the PDK which lets you access that engine better.
One has to say PDK for the win, but I just don't want an Automatic.
The only place a PH driving god with a manual gearbox is quicker than a PDK is in his own mind. PDK can change gear in less than a tenth of a second which is quicker then a manually shifted sequential racer, never mind a road-going "H" gearbox. Not even the additional weight is going to swing that back the other way.
rockin said:
The only place a PH driving god with a manual gearbox is quicker than a PDK is in his own mind. PDK can change gear in less than a tenth of a second which is quicker then a manually shifted sequential racer, never mind a road-going "H" gearbox. Not even the additional weight is going to swing that back the other way.
But what if the manual car is quicker spinning up between gears and gains >0.5 seconds? That's where the parasitic losses come in, so it's not just about the gear change. The shorter gearing of the PDK will even things out in that regard I suspect, so aside from launch starts as I said earlier I would expect the cars to be pretty similar in the real world.Choose the gearbox you like and have fun with the car, whatever your choice
Also on this point:
https://www.porsche.com/international/aboutporsche...
"Compared with the 718 models with the manual transmission, the 309 kW (420 PS) GT models – the 718 Spyder and 718 Cayman GT4 – now accelerate from 0-100 km/h half a second faster, in 3.9 seconds. They reach the 200 km/h mark in 13.4 seconds (0.4 seconds faster)."
So the PDK car loses 0.1 seconds to the manual car between 100km/h and 200km/h, which would back up my thoughts a little don't you think?
Edited by Twinfan on Tuesday 24th November 14:40
Ah, good to see the PDK v Manual Debate has started again.
I did get a bit giddy at the thought of switching my order to PDK, and then I had a bit of a sit down and think about it, and decided that, manual gear boxes simply aren't going to be around forever, as things move to electric cars they're going to become more and more rare. So, decided to stick with my guns and go manwell, and I'm glad I did
Obviously if you're chasing laptimes then the PDK is always going to be quicker, but chasing numbers just gets a bit silly really, especially if you're buying the car for the sheer driving pleasure itself.
I did get a bit giddy at the thought of switching my order to PDK, and then I had a bit of a sit down and think about it, and decided that, manual gear boxes simply aren't going to be around forever, as things move to electric cars they're going to become more and more rare. So, decided to stick with my guns and go manwell, and I'm glad I did
Obviously if you're chasing laptimes then the PDK is always going to be quicker, but chasing numbers just gets a bit silly really, especially if you're buying the car for the sheer driving pleasure itself.
Ironically this “debate” was alluded to yesterday on Jay Leno’s excellent release of his review of his CGT. Totally worth the watch - whatever side of the ledger you fall. He makes this salient point (below) near end of video. He owns a few cars. And I agree no right answer - as it is an individual choice. However, the speed thing to me is irrelevant unless you are racing at the track.
“I know the PDK is faster, but to me there’s nothing like grabbing the shifter, you just feel like you are in such control of the car, it’s doing exactly what you want, even though it’s not faster, I get to pick the gear I’m in, I like that”
https://youtu.be/nWTsDSzbGag
“I know the PDK is faster, but to me there’s nothing like grabbing the shifter, you just feel like you are in such control of the car, it’s doing exactly what you want, even though it’s not faster, I get to pick the gear I’m in, I like that”
https://youtu.be/nWTsDSzbGag
Rojibo said:
Ah, good to see the PDK v Manual Debate has started again.
I did get a bit giddy at the thought of switching my order to PDK, and then I had a bit of a sit down and think about it, and decided that, manual gear boxes simply aren't going to be around forever, as things move to electric cars they're going to become more and more rare. So, decided to stick with my guns and go manwell, and I'm glad I did
Obviously if you're chasing laptimes then the PDK is always going to be quicker, but chasing numbers just gets a bit silly really, especially if you're buying the car for the sheer driving pleasure itself.
Unless you're a SportAuto driver...I did get a bit giddy at the thought of switching my order to PDK, and then I had a bit of a sit down and think about it, and decided that, manual gear boxes simply aren't going to be around forever, as things move to electric cars they're going to become more and more rare. So, decided to stick with my guns and go manwell, and I'm glad I did
Obviously if you're chasing laptimes then the PDK is always going to be quicker, but chasing numbers just gets a bit silly really, especially if you're buying the car for the sheer driving pleasure itself.
I've been enjoying the manual vs PDK debate.
I enjoy a nice drive with a manual transmission and completely understand the appeal for those who enjoy track days. However, being an autocrosser, I truly enjoy a tight technical course or the tight back roads here in the Pacific NW in the States. My focal preference is 5 to 80 MPH. I'm certain that I will never exploit the 180+ MPH potential of my soon to arrive PDK 718 Spyder.
Please pardon if this link has already been discussed. https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/products/2021-p...
Paragraphs 3 and 5 piqued my interest when it was posted. (3) Sport Plus mode is tailored for maximum performance and fully exploits the engine speed range of the naturally aspirated six-cylinder boxer engine. (5) Furthermore, the PDK versions of the 718 Spyder and 718 Cayman GT4 benefit from the enhancements made to their mechanical locking rear differential: it achieves locking values of up to 30 percent in traction and 37 percent in overrun compared to 22 and 27 percent with the six-speed manual transmission. This has a positive effect on the longitudinal and lateral dynamics as well as traction, and increases driving pleasure.
Just my two cents worth and given the USD to GBP exchange probably worth even less.
I enjoy a nice drive with a manual transmission and completely understand the appeal for those who enjoy track days. However, being an autocrosser, I truly enjoy a tight technical course or the tight back roads here in the Pacific NW in the States. My focal preference is 5 to 80 MPH. I'm certain that I will never exploit the 180+ MPH potential of my soon to arrive PDK 718 Spyder.
Please pardon if this link has already been discussed. https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/products/2021-p...
Paragraphs 3 and 5 piqued my interest when it was posted. (3) Sport Plus mode is tailored for maximum performance and fully exploits the engine speed range of the naturally aspirated six-cylinder boxer engine. (5) Furthermore, the PDK versions of the 718 Spyder and 718 Cayman GT4 benefit from the enhancements made to their mechanical locking rear differential: it achieves locking values of up to 30 percent in traction and 37 percent in overrun compared to 22 and 27 percent with the six-speed manual transmission. This has a positive effect on the longitudinal and lateral dynamics as well as traction, and increases driving pleasure.
Just my two cents worth and given the USD to GBP exchange probably worth even less.
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