12 GT4's for sale on PistonHeads and growing

[Cheib]

AndrewD said:

Porsche911R said:

nothing is selling 2nd hand in any market atm imo, I am a crazy car buyer and it's been dead for 5 months in most area's for 2nd hand cars.
The market looks a bit on the dead side, same old same old for sale in most brands.

I test drove a 570S 2 weeks ago, could get a nice discount on it, it feels really special and the steering beats any Porker since 2012 !

Many upset Porker owners seem to have jumped ship to macca's and why not, their new car sales are up.

but on the whole car sales down 20% May
8% in June

The boom is about to go boom imo too many cars about and every months loads of PCP hand backs flood the market.

GT market is now flooded with the new GT3's about and with 8 or 9 generations worth of GT cars most people who want a GT car have one from some era. I expect a flood of 2nd hand new GT3's come up for sale straight away.

New RS in due in March, then new GT4 and Spyder too many cars about now. I cannot work out why there are overs any more.

Did any 911R sell 2nd hand ? they have not stopped dropping and as far as I can see 2nd hand sales were bad.
991 RS market seems stuck.
997 GT3 market stuck
981 Spyder market stuck
GT4 market very slow

and now another 600 GT3 about to hit the UK !

I think it's all over.

981 Spyder market stuck?
Mine sold for 12k over list within 48 hours.
I like your "stuck market"

I don't agree with all of what 911R has to say but what I do think is that there is a finite audience for Porsche GT cars in terms of people that actually want to own them and use them as intended at current list prices/second hand market. I reckon a good third to a half of buyers of GT cars buy them because it's free motoring for a year/they like having the latest hot car/they can get one because their great OPC customers and then they move on.

As 911 R says they're are a hell of a lot of GT cars due over the next year or two. I have no idea how many GT/RS cars there are in the UK across 996/7/1 but it's probably somewhere in the order of 5,000 cars ? If you think we're due probably 1500 to 1800 cars across 991.2 GT3, GT3 RS, GT2 RS, GT4 and Spyder it's a lot of cars in that context.

[Koln-RS]

There's no comparison with the current market, and what happened in 1989/90 - That was a crazy 2-3 years of sky rocketing prices, followed by a freefall decline as we hit recession.

These days the market is a bit more sophisticated, and supported by wealthy collectors and genuine enthusiasts. 'Speculators' are probably in the minority.

I agree there will inevitably be a correction and the market has flattened for the last two years, but there are still plenty of keen buyers. Having a collection of one or more interesting cars is now a hobby.

So long as there is petrol at the pumps, the 'blue chip' collectables will always be in demand even if prices ease. And the near new enthusiast cars, such as the current Porsche GTs, will be sought after by those who want to own and use some of the world's finest examples.

Something like the 911R might be in for a big correction, against the eye-watering prices that were being asked, and lots of 'mutton dressed as lamb' will find their true value. But, if I was buying a GT3 or a GT4, I'd want to enjoy it now and wouldn't lose sleep over price movements - life's too short.

[AndrewD]

The problem with 911R's analysis (600 new GT3's coming etc) is that it ignores demand, and only considers supply.

Cars are selling, I just proved that with my 981 Spyder, unless of course mine was the only one that sold well over list almost immediately.

[Slippydiff]

AndrewD said:

The problem with 911R's analysis (600 new GT3's coming etc) is that it ignores demand, and only considers supply.

Cars are selling, I just proved that with my 981 Spyder, unless of course mine was the only one that sold well over list almost immediately.

But by the same token "One swallow does not a summer make". Brilliant for you that yours sold so quickly and at a premium Andrew, but not necessarily indicative of the general market.

[Geneve]

The market may have slowed but it's still healthy.

Yes, people are selling cars, but they're also buying them.

[Fokker]

As the article link above says "No-one is predicting a market collapse this time saying prices were inflated before because the cars were bought with borrowed money but today it is mainly cleared funds".

Clearer funds makes a big difference.

There are still plenty of people out there making vast amounts of money that they want to spend on shiny new sports cars.

[Porsche911R]

AndrewD said:

981 Spyder market stuck?
Mine sold for 12k over list within 48 hours.
I like your "stuck market"

What was list, I speced a Spyder for £66k so £12k over list is not today's £90k prices is it ?

All these cars are still selling over list, I could sell my car for £10k over list, but it's not the £30k over list I got offered 2 years ago.

Any car sells if it looks loads cheaper than any other for sale at the time. And for all org owners there is still money in all the new cars.

But imo there are not enough drivers for 6000 GT products. Collectors are not buying £230k 991 RS's they are good clients buying at list price.

I doubt you have paid overs for any of your cars.

There seems to be this £200k figure banded about for a 991.2 GT3, is there really a booming buyers market for a £200k basic GT3 ? I don't see it , not with the RS out in early 2018.

In the past collectors only want RS products, I just don't get the overs market for a GT3 or GT4 when Porsche keep churning them out.

[Akajak]

AndrewD said:

The problem with 911R's analysis (600 new GT3's coming etc) is that it ignores demand, and only considers supply.

Cars are selling, I just proved that with my 981 Spyder, unless of course mine was the only one that sold well over list almost immediately.

if you don't mind me asking what mileage did yours have when you sold?

[GT4P]

Cheib said:

As 911 R says they're are a hell of a lot of GT cars due over the next year or two. I have no idea how many GT/RS cars there are in the UK across 996/7/1 but it's probably somewhere in the order of 5,000 cars ? If you think we're due probably 1500 to 1800 cars across 991.2 GT3, GT3 RS, GT2 RS, GT4 and Spyder it's a lot of cars in that context.

With respect I think your numbers are way out, in the last 10 years I would say there are about a 1000 worthy cars in the cayster range that are manual (CR,Spyder and Gt4) In the 997range I would quess at a 1000 gt2/3rs cars all of which are manual and circa 600 991.1gt3/RS but these are all pdk!
So 2000 manual cars over 10 years to the UK not a lot really, yes more to come but how many manual 991.2 gt3 and is not the 991.2 gt3rs going to be pdk only!

[cc3]

Nobody of course knows when the next correction will come but it will happen. Central banks around the world have created asset bubbles in lots of areas due to quantitative easing and sooner or later will have to raise interest rates. It only needs a shock or panic in one asset class to trigger a collapse. Could be something different this time such as Bitcoin. Yes still plenty of people earning lots of cash but that is always the same leading up to a crash. The majority don't see it coming until it hits them

There are some wise old investors out there who have been quietly selling assets and increasing their holding of cash ahead of the summer break Will be interesting to see how it all plays out

https://www.ftadviser.com/Articles/2017/06/05/FTA-...

[GT4P]

Porsche911R said:

But imo there are not enough drivers for 6000 GT products

.

But there are not 6000 GT products in the Uk

[breadvan]

Slippydiff said:

AndrewD said:

The problem with 911R's analysis (600 new GT3's coming etc) is that it ignores demand, and only considers supply.

Cars are selling, I just proved that with my 981 Spyder, unless of course mine was the only one that sold well over list almost immediately.

But by the same token "One swallow does not a summer make". Brilliant for you that yours sold so quickly and at a premium Andrew, but not necessarily indicative of the general market.

Umm, did you not see my post 3 hours ago Slippy?

[Porsche911R]

GT4P said:

With respect I think your numbers are way out, in the last 10 years I would say there are about a 1000 worthy cars in the cayster range that are manual (CR,Spyder and Gt4) In the 997range I would quess at a 1000 gt2/3rs cars all of which are manual and circa 600 991.1gt3/RS but these are all pdk!
So 2000 manual cars over 10 years to the UK not a lot really, yes more to come but how many manual 991.2 gt3 and is not the 991.2 gt3rs going to be pdk only!

Most people are specking PDK GT3 and have said if a GT4 is PDK they would go PDK.
Manual market is tiny imo esp in modern cars as if you want a manual you may as well buy a car which feels loads better in all areas, a drivers car is not about being manual.

They could not sell GT3 in the past, I sold my minter for £38k

I don't see a big new car manual market either.

[rkwm1]

Fokker said:

As the article link above says "No-one is predicting a market collapse this time saying prices were inflated before because the cars were bought with borrowed money but today it is mainly cleared funds".

Clearer funds makes a big difference.

There are still plenty of people out there making vast amounts of money that they want to spend on shiny new sports cars.

Just because cash has been paid to purchase the car, it doesn't mean that some sort of finance has not been taken. I know at least 3 people who have remortgaged their houses to buy nice cars. It is one of the options i considered when i bought my car.

It would be very interesting to know how many GT4's, GT3 RS and now GT3's have/will be purchased on PCP.

As 911R has mentioned PCP cars are been returned in vast amounts at the moment from people buying 2/3 years ago.

[GT4P]

I do believe the modern GT product is more useable than previous models hence appeal to a wider market and not just track rats! The GT cars are more appealing as a weekend toy over a regular P.car even if it never sees a track hence demand for such cars especially while they are NA f6 will remain strong

[Porsche911R]

GT4P said:

I do believe the modern GT product is more useable than previous models hence appeal to a wider market and not just track rats! The GT cars are more appealing as a weekend toy over a regular P.car even if it never sees a track hence demand for such cars especially while they are NA f6 will remain strong

The very same buyer wants PDK.

[AndrewD]

Porsche911R said:

What was list, I speced a Spyder for £66k so £12k over list is not today's £90k prices is it ?

All these cars are still selling over list, I could sell my car for £10k over list, but it's not the £30k over list I got offered 2 years ago.

Any car sells if it looks loads cheaper than any other for sale at the time. And for all org owners there is still money in all the new cars.

But imo there are not enough drivers for 6000 GT products. Collectors are not buying £230k 991 RS's they are good clients buying at list price.

I doubt you have paid overs for any of your cars.

There seems to be this £200k figure banded about for a 991.2 GT3, is there really a booming buyers market for a £200k basic GT3 ? I don't see it , not with the RS out in early 2018.

In the past collectors only want RS products, I just don't get the overs market for a GT3 or GT4 when Porsche keep churning them out.

My Spyder was 75k list so it sold for close to the 90k you mentioned.

I bought a 997 4.0RS about two months ago and a 996RS about 6-7 months ago, both above their original list price. There you go, two more GT cars bought above list

Why do people pay overs for GT3/4? Not much else in the price range even with premiums. Either for people looking to drive them or for people who (yuck) treat them as investments.

It is what it is.

Edited by AndrewD on Monday 17th July 23:02

[Cheib]

GT4P said:

Cheib said:

As 911 R says they're are a hell of a lot of GT cars due over the next year or two. I have no idea how many GT/RS cars there are in the UK across 996/7/1 but it's probably somewhere in the order of 5,000 cars ? If you think we're due probably 1500 to 1800 cars across 991.2 GT3, GT3 RS, GT2 RS, GT4 and Spyder it's a lot of cars in that context.

With respect I think your numbers are way out, in the last 10 years I would say there are about a 1000 worthy cars in the cayster range that are manual (CR,Spyder and Gt4) In the 997range I would quess at a 1000 gt2/3rs cars all of which are manual and circa 600 991.1gt3/RS but these are all pdk!
So 2000 manual cars over 10 years to the UK not a lot really, yes more to come but how many manual 991.2 gt3 and is not the 991.2 gt3rs going to be pdk only!

If we take your numbers for Cayster and 997 that's 2000 cars. Then add maybe 400 996 ? And then 800 991.1 across GT3 and RS. So we're at 3200 cars so I was very high.

That makes the amount of cars due in the next couple of years a big number in % terms then!

400 GT3
300 GT3 RS
100 GT2 RS
600 GT4
200 Spyders

[Fokker]

Cheib said:

GT4P said:

Cheib said:

As 911 R says they're are a hell of a lot of GT cars due over the next year or two. I have no idea how many GT/RS cars there are in the UK across 996/7/1 but it's probably somewhere in the order of 5,000 cars ? If you think we're due probably 1500 to 1800 cars across 991.2 GT3, GT3 RS, GT2 RS, GT4 and Spyder it's a lot of cars in that context.

With respect I think your numbers are way out, in the last 10 years I would say there are about a 1000 worthy cars in the cayster range that are manual (CR,Spyder and Gt4) In the 997range I would quess at a 1000 gt2/3rs cars all of which are manual and circa 600 991.1gt3/RS but these are all pdk!
So 2000 manual cars over 10 years to the UK not a lot really, yes more to come but how many manual 991.2 gt3 and is not the 991.2 gt3rs going to be pdk only!

If we take your numbers for Cayster and 997 that's 2000 cars. Then add maybe 400 996 ? And then 800 991.1 across GT3 and RS. So we're at 3200 cars so I was very high.

That makes the amount of cars due in the next couple of years a big number in % terms then!

400 GT3
300 GT3 RS
100 GT2 RS
600 GT4
200 Spyders

That's only 20 cars per dealer per year though.

[Bedlamater]

If those really are the numbers I'd say right now a Spyder vs a GT4 is the one to have, just as much if not more fun, much rarer, and the one most likely to give it's owner free motoring over the next few years, even if over list now... I just can't find one with the right spec!

Cheib said:

If we take your numbers for Cayster and 997 that's 2000 cars. Then add maybe 400 996 ? And then 800 991.1 across GT3 and RS. So we're at 3200 cars so I was very high.

That makes the amount of cars due in the next couple of years a big number in % terms then!

400 GT3
300 GT3 RS
100 GT2 RS
600 GT4
200 Spyders