The new 718 Gt4/Spyder are here!

[Melvynr]

A belter , is it a PTS colour as reminds me of BM San Marino Blue.

[Romo]

Gentian Blue pops in the sun :-)

[TDT]

Just back to the harness topic, I was looking at a 991.2 GT3 CS today and this had the post-2017 black schroth harnesses.
These actually look like an in-between size vs the previous style Wide harnesses and narrow HANs/FHR specific… so makes sense to me now as to why new cars are only supplied with the one style set.

So should be no issue at all for with or without HANs/FHR although as previously mentioned: If you’re not going to use a HANs/FHR, would recommend you don’t use a harness purely on the grounds of safety, but everyone can make their choice.

[TimRV57]

TDT said:

Just back to the harness topic, I was looking at a 991.2 GT3 CS today and this had the post-2017 black schroth harnesses.
These actually look like an in-between size vs the previous style Wide harnesses and narrow HANs/FHR specific… so makes sense to me now as to why new cars are only supplied with the one style set.

So should be no issue at all for with or without HANs/FHR although as previously mentioned: If you’re not going to use a HANs/FHR, would recommend you don’t use a harness purely on the grounds of safety, but everyone can make their choice.

Thanks to you and ChrisW earlier for input on that. Makes sense.

Massively off topic and I am not personally informed on this, but F1 a few years ago had no HANS and super stiff carbon tubs and still had full harnesses - so I wonder if this risk is over done? But I will still get Hans when my car (finally) gets released...

[bigmowley]

stef1808 said:

I’m thinking of getting a spyder (if I can)

My last modern Porsche was 991 GT3 which I didn’t get on with as I found it too easy todrive - the limit of the car was so high I could never get near it and so it felt uninvolving for me - like the car drove it self

Will I have the same issue with the spyder being mid engine?

The 997 gt3/2 is the perfect handling but all the creeks from he dash, roll cage etc is starting to get annoying

Hard question to answer but probably yes. I also had a 991.1 GT3 but I never suffered from your problem the limits are extremely high and quite correctly you will not get anywhere near them on the road. I tracked mine so the limits were enjoyed in full. On the road I don’t get even close to the limits in my 718 Spyder but it’s very enjoyable to drive with the top down. I am a mid engined Porsche fan boy mind you.
Just fix the 997 creaks it’s a much more tactile car.

[Twinfan]

TimRV57 said:

Massively off topic and I am not personally informed on this, but F1 a few years ago had no HANS and super stiff carbon tubs and still had full harnesses - so I wonder if this risk is over done? But I will still get Hans when my car (finally) gets released...

I think there's a huge risk of looking a bit daft bimbling around wearing HANS at a track day. I certainly won't be using one but I will be using my harnesses.

Each to their own as they say!

[ChrisW.]

On track I do wear full harnesses but only use my HANS when intending to really press-on.

Particularly with a passenger in the car, reciprocity in terms of protection is only fair.

Aside from this there are airbags to minimise the risk of a snapped neck should the worst happen ...

[Evo9lution]

TDT said:

Just back to the harness topic, I was looking at a 991.2 GT3 CS today and this had the post-2017 black schroth harnesses.
These actually look like an in-between size vs the previous style Wide harnesses and narrow HANs/FHR specific… so makes sense to me now as to why new cars are only supplied with the one style set.

So should be no issue at all for with or without HANs/FHR although as previously mentioned: If you’re not going to use a HANs/FHR, would recommend you don’t use a harness purely on the grounds of safety, but everyone can make their choice.

Thanks for confirming. I didn't think that the harnesses were that wide so when it was mentioned that they would not be suitable for HANS/Simpson I was a bit taken aback. Glad to know as I believe that if you have harnesses you should really use a HANS/Simpson.

Twinfan said:

I think there's a huge risk of looking a bit daft bimbling around wearing HANS at a track day. I certainly won't be using one but I will be using my harnesses.

Each to their own as they say!

Obviously I hope that it never comes to it but, if I had a big shunt, I would be glad that I looked OTT wearing a HANS/Simpson tbh. A bit like cycling wearing a helmet ... I used to scoff when young but when you are older you realise how much damage can be caused (and not always your fault) so don't really care about how you look any longer!

But, as you say, ultimately everyone has to make their own decision (though, I'd tend to take it off when out of the car and not wear it bimbling around the garage all day )

[isaldiri]

TimRV57 said:

Massively off topic and I am not personally informed on this, but F1 a few years ago had no HANS and super stiff carbon tubs and still had full harnesses - so I wonder if this risk is over done? But I will still get Hans when my car (finally) gets released...

It depends I suppose. If it was purely in terms of risk, I don't think there's any doubt now a well fitting HANs will be safer and by a good degree. F1 had required it way back in 2003 so a little bit further than 'a few years ago' and arguably had the medical side of things been known earlier it would have been required earlier. For racing it's a no brainer imo.

I admit though for trackdays I simply can't be bothered despite knowing full well it is safer as I don't find it particularly comfortable (not helped by my lack of usage) and it is a considered risk I think is acceptable.

[Cheib]

Just got an email from 000 magazine (great publication for those of you that haven’t come across it). There’s a new Spyder edition coming !

How good do they look ! Brewster Green for me please.

[Taffy66]

Very, very nice indeed especially in Brewster Green and vcery tasteful which makes a nice change. A new Porsche which really appeals to me.

[TDT]

Evo9lution said:

Twinfan said:

I think there's a huge risk of looking a bit daft bimbling around wearing HANS at a track day. I certainly won't be using one but I will be using my harnesses.

Each to their own as they say!

Obviously I hope that it never comes to it but, if I had a big shunt, I would be glad that I looked OTT wearing a HANS/Simpson tbh. A bit like cycling wearing a helmet ... I used to scoff when young but when you are older you realise how much damage can be caused (and not always your fault) so don't really care about how you look any longer!

But, as you say, ultimately everyone has to make their own decision (though, I'd tend to take it off when out of the car and not wear it bimbling around the garage all day )

Exactly.... it’s not a fashion show or pageant.
But anyway... each to their own and best wishes to all.

[Twinfan]

I was referring to bimbling around on track, not out of the car. It's a track day not a race...

[mobil1]

Cheib said:

Just got an email from 000 magazine (great publication for those of you that haven’t come across it). There’s a new Spyder edition coming !

How good do they look ! Brewster Green for me please.

They look fantastic! Any idea when they are available to order?

[TDT]

Twinfan said:

I was referring to bimbling around on track, not out of the car. It's a track day not a race...

It not racing, but I guess like everything in life... Levels....

[Rojibo]

I suppose this is as good of a place as any to ask the question, I've heard lots of times that harness without HANS and impact means a potential to snap your neck on impact. Obviously not great, and the reason that racing drivers wear a HANS device is to prevent this, but those cars don't have airbags. In a car with airbags, are you not offered better protection?

I can see the argument for both, I just think if it was such a risk wouldn't the manufacturer be making a bigger deal out of it? (I'm off to read my Schroth Harness manual...)

[Twinfan]

Rojibo said:

I suppose this is as good of a place as any to ask the question, I've heard lots of times that harness without HANS and impact means a potential to snap your neck on impact. Obviously not great, and the reason that racing drivers wear a HANS device is to prevent this, but those cars don't have airbags. In a car with airbags, are you not offered better protection?

I can see the argument for both, I just think if it was such a risk wouldn't the manufacturer be making a bigger deal out of it? (I'm off to read my Schroth Harness manual...)

Good question. This is my logic too...

[isaldiri]

Rojibo said:

I suppose this is as good of a place as any to ask the question, I've heard lots of times that harness without HANS and impact means a potential to snap your neck on impact. Obviously not great, and the reason that racing drivers wear a HANS device is to prevent this, but those cars don't have airbags. In a car with airbags, are you not offered better protection?

I can see the argument for both, I just think if it was such a risk wouldn't the manufacturer be making a bigger deal out of it? (I'm off to read my Schroth Harness manual...)

The issue as per what I can understand from the medical stuff is that your harnesses hold your body in place to a far greater degree than your helmeted head when there is a very large deceleration. That differential is the problem.

Airbags help and would offer more protection than not being there at all I'd guess but they are designed to work with seatbelts which will allow for much more movement. So the benefit of hans still is applicable even if say less critical than in a race car without airbags.

[Goldjono]

Not long to wait now.

[TDT]

Twinfan said:

Rojibo said:

I suppose this is as good of a place as any to ask the question, I've heard lots of times that harness without HANS and impact means a potential to snap your neck on impact. Obviously not great, and the reason that racing drivers wear a HANS device is to prevent this, but those cars don't have airbags. In a car with airbags, are you not offered better protection?

I can see the argument for both, I just think if it was such a risk wouldn't the manufacturer be making a bigger deal out of it? (I'm off to read my Schroth Harness manual...)

Good question. This is my logic too...

So your head with a helmet on, is going exert more load on your neck and spinal cord than they are designed for, it’s not all about hitting your head.

With a harness, your body is locked into position - great... but your head + helmet is not locked or in sync with your body... so the momentum acts on this at an accelerated loading.... your body doesn’t move, but you are the like a bobble head + helmet.... this could stretch/break your neck soft tissues, nerves and blood vessels.... .basal skull fracture....not great.

With a HANS/FHR, your head and neck stay aligned, connected and constrained to the movement of your body, therefore your head doesn’t flop around to anywhere near the same extent as No HANS, risk for damage to your neck tissues reduced.

If you’re relying on airbags alone better to not use harnesses... IMO.
Airbags in the cars are designed to work in conjunction with the 3 point harness... in an impact the positioning of the belts allow your body to rotate and moved in a controlled fashion to meet the airbags as they come out to meet you.

Edited by TDT on Thursday 29th April 12:26