718 review - test drove today

[mogli882]

bcr5784 said:

My comments (as I always try to make clear) relate to the base 718 NOT the S. There are good reasons (larger capacity/less boost/variable geometry turbo) why the S ought to suffer less from lag. I haven't driven the 718S and until I have won't form a view. My interest in the base car stems from the fact that it is just as fast as the 981S and might have made a sensible move at modest cost. Unfortunately lag and (to a lesser extent noise) rule it out for me.

Interesting, I have driven both the base and S versions, did them back to back for about 40 mins. There is definitely some lag in the base, but I didn't think it was that bad. There was some slight hesitation in the S too just not as much.

The base car imo is a better option than the base 981, having driven one multiple times I found that really suffered with a lack of punch at low revs.

I guess it depends on what you're used to and or expectations, if you can get past the noise imo its a good cost effective option, as you say on paper its quicker than the outgoing 981s.

[ORD]

Who cares that it's faster? Where do you drive? If you're driving a 981 S and needing more power, you'll be in jail soon.

[JasonSteel]

ORD said:

Who cares that it's faster?

this isn't aimed at you specifically but your quote summed things up nicely.

i certainly don't (care if it's faster), but i don't understand why it doesn't matter that it's faster or quicker, and it doesn't matter that it handles better, but a small delay in getting full power down - and that's only if you happen to be in the wrong gear and suddenly need full power - is such a big deal.

double standards?

so a 718 won't feel 'special' trundling along?

Edited by JasonSteel on Saturday 2nd July 11:17

[ORD]

JasonSteel said:

ORD said:

Who cares that it's faster?

this isn't aimed at you specifically but your quote summed things up nicely.

i certainly don't (care if it's faster), but i don't understand why it doesn't matter that it's faster and it doesn't matter that it handles better, but a small delay in getting full power down - and that's only if you happen to be in the wrong gear and suddenly need full power - is such a big deal.

double standards?

so a 718 won't feel 'special' trundling along?

You're missing the point. More power would make no difference to my enjoyment of a Cayman. Worse throttle response would.

And a 4 pot Cayman is not special. At all.

[JasonSteel]

ORD said:

You're missing the point. More power would make no difference to my enjoyment of a Cayman. Worse throttle response would.

when you're trundling along, worse throttle response would ruin your enjoyment?

[ORD]

JasonSteel said:

ORD said:

You're missing the point. More power would make no difference to my enjoyment of a Cayman. Worse throttle response would.

when you're trundling along, worse throttle response would ruin your enjoyment?

Yes. Any gear, any time, any place, bad throttle response ruins a supposedly sporty car.

[JasonSteel]

ORD said:

Yes. Any gear, any time, any place, bad throttle response ruins a supposedly sporty car.

like i said before then, double standards.

you enjoy your wonderfully responsive car that you have, and i'll try to enjoy my non responsive, ruined, non sporty, and totally unspecial 718CS when it arrives.

[Sustenpass]

Where are the double standards? He, like some others including me, really don't like dulled throttle response and it's a big deal to them.

If you're happy with the car, why care what others think?

[JasonSteel]

Sustenpass said:

Where are the double standards?

718 chassis is improved - doesn't matter
718 handling is improved - doesn't matter
718 brakes are upgraded - doesn't matter
718 std spec is superior - doesn't matter
718 is faster - doesn't matter
718 is quicker - doesn't matter
718 matches current GT4 around the ring - doesn't matter
+ others that don't come to mind right now.

718 throttle response is different - car loses all responsiveness, sportiness and special qualities.

Sustenpass said:

He, like some others including me, really don't like dulled throttle response and it's a big deal to them.

that's fine. i'm not saying the different throttle response is an improvement. just saying that if you're low down enough in the revs for the delay to be an issue, you're not in the right gear. i thought the F6 engine was supposed to be thrashed at high revs? why are you all suddenly driving at 1500RPM?

and what happens if you put your foot down in 6th @2k RPM in a 981? does the car respond instantly and propel itself forwards?

Sustenpass said:

If you're happy with the car, why care what others think?

just taking part in the discussion while i wait for it to arrive.

[ORD]

I don't think you understand the meaning of the phrase 'double standards'.
There is no hypocrisy in caring about some things much more than others.

[JasonSteel]

ORD said:

I don't think you understand the meaning of the phrase 'double standards'.
There is no hypocrisy in caring about some things much more than others.

i think i understand it just fine, and i'm certainly not calling anyone a hypocrite - maybe you need to check your understanding of the terms?

i think it best we leave it at:

JasonSteel said:

you enjoy your wonderfully responsive car, and i'll try to enjoy my non responsive, ruined, non sporty, and totally unspecial 718CS when it arrives.

[HighwayStar]

JasonSteel said:

ORD said:

I don't think you understand the meaning of the phrase 'double standards'.
There is no hypocrisy in caring about some things much more than others.

i think i understand it just fine, and i'm certainly not calling anyone a hypocrite - maybe you need to check your understanding of the terms?

i think it best we leave it at:

JasonSteel said:

you enjoy your wonderfully responsive car, and i'll try to enjoy my non responsive, ruined, non sporty, and totally unspecial 718CS when it arrives.

Jason, I I totally get what Ord & Sustenpass are saying...

What car are you coming from... were you the guy who way back in this threat said you don't care about the engine sound and currently drive a Golf until your Boxster lands? Apologies if you're not, I'm not going to read all the way back to clarify

[JasonSteel]

HighwayStar said:

were you the guy who way back in this threat said you don't care about the engine sound and currently drive a Golf until your Boxster lands? Apologies if you're not, I'm not going to read all the way back to clarify

yes i am that guy.

i doubt i said i don't care about the sound though. can't be bothered to go back either but in any case, i think that at road speeds and while driving (i.e. from inside the car), the difference between old and new car is borderline acceptable.

outside the car though, or at higher revs it's a different story and i'm gutted that my car won't have the same noise.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Well, let me tell you - a 6 pot Boxster is not a "fast" car by modern standards. It lacks torque and that makes it slow to respond to the throttle unless you change down or buy a PDK. i.e. you get immediate throttle response but not enough response to make the car fly unless the revs are right up the range.

The 6-pot and 4-pot are very different engines and with the go faster button on the 4-pot they drive very differently. IMO the 6-pot is "a nice engine to rev" and the 4-pot is simply "an engine".

Nonetheless I remain confident that 718 is the quicker car.

[Krobar]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Well, let me tell you - a 6 pot Boxster is not a "fast" car by modern standards. It lacks torque and that makes it slow to respond to the throttle unless you change down or buy a PDK. i.e. you get immediate throttle response but not enough response to make the car fly unless the revs are right up the range.

The 6-pot and 4-pot are very different engines and with the go faster button on the 4-pot they drive very differently. IMO the 6-pot is "a nice engine to rev" and the 4-pot is simply "an engine".

Nonetheless I remain confident that 718 is the quicker car.

No doubt its quicker. Then again on average a Focus RS is probably quicker than a 718 so if that was the most important attribute you would not be buying a Porsche.

My own view on this and the reason why I picked a Cayman over the Golf R at the time came down to 2 factors, mid engine handling/oddity/noise and a much revvier more rewarding engine. One of those 2 factors is now gone. Along with it now using nearly the same nav/audio the Porsches seem to be gradually getting closer and closer to their VW cousins.

[HighwayStar]

JasonSteel said:

HighwayStar said:

were you the guy who way back in this threat said you don't care about the engine sound and currently drive a Golf until your Boxster lands? Apologies if you're not, I'm not going to read all the way back to clarify

yes i am that guy.

i doubt i said i don't care about the sound though. can't be bothered to go back either but in any case, i think that at road speeds and while driving (i.e. from inside the car), the difference between old and new car is borderline acceptable.

outside the car though, or at higher revs it's a different story and i'm gutted that my car won't have the same noise.

Ok, I haven't driven the 718 but I have other turbos and ambling around town and stop/start traffic there's nothing. No aural pleasure as you trundle around. The 981 has that just on start up. My neighbour loves it. The NA engine has bags of character the new one doesn't. I don't have to be 'on it' to get that warm fuzzy feeling from it but it's all part of the driving experience.
It's ok not to get it or not even care but... It's the sort of thing that matters to some Cayster owners,
More than low down torque, being quicker than a GT4 or simply just quicker.
The 718 is clearly not a rubbish car, just to some it's all that and less.

[JasonSteel]

HighwayStar said:

It's ok not to get it or not even care but... It's the sort of thing that matters to some Cayster owners,
More than low down torque, being quicker than a GT4 or simply just quicker.
The 718 is clearly not a rubbish car, just to some it's all that and less.

i do get it and fully appreciate what you're saying but earlier we were discussing specifically the delayed throttle response from the turbo. we weren't discussing noise or other aspects of the engine.

so i was just pointing out that when driving enthusiastically, turbo lag isn't an issue as revs will be higher. and it doesn't matter when trundling along either because you're just trundling along.

the 981 isn't great at low revs either, which is one of the reasons why i used the term 'double standards'.

[ORD]

It's all subjective. Most people aren't bothered by the slushy pedal of a highly blown 4 pot.
Most people want PDK.
Different strokes for different folks.

But a 4-pot Cayman is a very different proposition from one with a 911 engine, that's for sure. I think it's gone from being one of the best value for money cars around to a bit of a rip off.

[Carl_Manchester]

JasonSteel said:

Sustenpass said:

Where are the double standards?

718 chassis is improved - doesn't matter
718 handling is improved - doesn't matter
718 brakes are upgraded - doesn't matter
718 std spec is superior - doesn't matter
718 is faster - doesn't matter
718 is quicker - doesn't matter
718 matches current GT4 around the ring - doesn't matter
+ others that don't come to mind right now.

718 throttle response is different - car loses all responsiveness, sportiness and special qualities.

I think the apathy is down to the fact that the Boxster was almost perfect. You had to jump to the 458 Sp in order to beat the experience and even then, the Boxster had better daily usability. It was consistently, the best reviewed car in the world with the exception of the 458 coupe.

Fast forward back into 2016 and you would need to be seriously convinced by the 718s engine to lay down £70k for one, many remain unconvinced no matter how improved the rest of the car is.

I can't see anyway out of this for Porsche until they offer a F6 engine as a 718 GTS. If they offer a F4 as part of the GTS package thats the 718 concept dead for me personally.

[HighwayStar]

JasonSteel said:

HighwayStar said:

It's ok not to get it or not even care but... It's the sort of thing that matters to some Cayster owners,
More than low down torque, being quicker than a GT4 or simply just quicker.
The 718 is clearly not a rubbish car, just to some it's all that and less.

i do get it and fully appreciate what you're saying but earlier we were discussing specifically the delayed throttle response from the turbo. we weren't discussing noise or other aspects of the engine.

so i was just pointing out that when driving enthusiastically, turbo lag isn't an issue as revs will be higher. and it doesn't matter when trundling along either because you're just trundling along.

the 981 isn't great at low revs either, which is one of the reasons why i used the term 'double standards'.

Turbo lag does matter when you're trundling but waiting to get on it... An overtake or especially that moment from standstill, coming out of a side road or to turn right. That initial delay when you summond the horse's and whoa, nothing... ah, here we go. Now that is frustrating.

Edited by HighwayStar on Sunday 3rd July 23:06