Boxster Spyder

[JeffC]

Mintbird said:

id have the 981 over the 718. from reading between the lines in the reviews, new engine seems massively compromised and strangled, and the sound isnt as nice.

surely it cant be as bad as the old engine, it was massively strangled and compromised, along with the gearing for me it ruined the drive which is what these types of cars should be bought for.

[RSVP911]

Geoff39GL said:

TDT said:

https://youtu.be/wHb3-aNuZzQ

Spyder...

Edited by TDT on Friday 2nd August 13:32

O surprise surprise, not bad cars then, from someone whose opinion we all respect

Thank god for that, mines due soon and I wasn’t going to bother picking it up - I think I may as well now.......

[isaldiri]

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

Geoff39GL said:

O surprise surprise, not bad cars then, from someone whose opinion we all respect

Henry is one of the best Motoring Journalists however I didn't quite take away the same message from the video.

Funny. I think people are, as ever, depending on which side of the argument they are on wrt to said car, reading whatever they wish to read from the review.

[av185]

RSVP911 said:

Thank god for that, mines due soon and I wasn’t going to bother picking it up - I think I may as well now.......

Ha are you having GTS again with classic red interior Richard? And a red roof of course.

[RSVP911]

av185 said:

RSVP911 said:

Thank god for that, mines due soon and I wasn’t going to bother picking it up - I think I may as well now.......

Ha are you having GTS again with classic red interior Richard? And a red roof of course.

I think GTSM is great and is a very sophisticated colour; shows off the Spyders curves very nicely indeed ; but not for me this time (also I hate red roofs btw)

This time I’m going full on : Miami , Platinum wheels with PCCB’s . Inside silver stitch and black brushed metal trim.

I love Miami in real life - impossible to photograph correctly - this GT4 is a reasonable representation of the true colour, but still doesn’t do it justice as it looks a little washed out , but it has the right wheels and ceramics.



This is wrong for colour tone and wheels but gives you an idea :

I think the true colour is a mix between the two images.



I’m actually really looking forward to it no matter what the nay sayers say - to me the 981 was one of the best cars I’d ever owned and the new one will be more of the same. I’m actually really looking forward to understanding the differences between the two in the real world.

I do agree if I had a 981 Spyder I probably wouldn’t pay the extra to upgrade, but if you could choose between the two at list / your own spec I think the vast majority of people would go 718 - no matter what they say on here

Maybe different for the GT4 as the gap between the two versions seems quite small (on paper at least)

Either way I’ve really missed my 981 and I’m really looking forward to the new one .

Edited by RSVP911 on Saturday 3rd August 08:17

[Porsche911R]

RSVP911 said:

I think GTSM is great and is a very sophisticated colour; shows off the Spyders curves very nicely indeed ; but not for me this time (also I hate red roofs btw)

Ozj[/url]

I’m actually really looking forward to it no matter what the nay sayers say - to me the 981 was one of the best cars I’d ever owned and the new one will be more of the same. I’m actually really looking forward to understanding the differences between the two in the real world.

I do agree if I had a 981 Spyder I probably wouldn’t pay the extra to upgrade, but if you could choose between the two at list / your own spec I think the vast majority of people would go 718 - no matter what they say on here]

I agree the new car will be better than the old one in every thing bar the gearing, so if you liked the old one you should love the new one.

I did not like the old one. And the engine was ok imo in the old car, it’s the mapping, gearing, steering, brakes, electrics, etc which ruined it.

£600 remap gets you 410bhp in the old car and removes the torque limi, but that’s not it’s flaw !

the old cars esc and electronics were poor if you did want to drive it a bit faster and the steering was not great.

The new engine looks great, will feel strong on gear change due to the torque band.
Car has no lift so will feel better at speed, , the steering will be better etc etc.

To drive it will be 20% better than the old one imo and on track 40% better.

But 50% less exciting than a 987.

As the review said, if you want this car you have to accept its flaws as no other new cars does what it does.

But current 981 owners are deluded saying this ones not as good.

[RSVP911]

Porsche911R said:

RSVP911 said:

I think GTSM is great and is a very sophisticated colour; shows off the Spyders curves very nicely indeed ; but not for me this time (also I hate red roofs btw)

Ozj[/url]

I’m actually really looking forward to it no matter what the nay sayers say - to me the 981 was one of the best cars I’d ever owned and the new one will be more of the same. I’m actually really looking forward to understanding the differences between the two in the real world.

I do agree if I had a 981 Spyder I probably wouldn’t pay the extra to upgrade, but if you could choose between the two at list / your own spec I think the vast majority of people would go 718 - no matter what they say on here]

I agree the new car will be better than the old one in every thing bar the gearing, so if you liked the old one you should love the new one.

I did not like the old one. And the engine was ok imo in the old car, it’s the mapping, gearing, steering, brakes, electrics, etc which ruined it.

£600 remap gets you 410bhp in the old car and removes the torque limi, but that’s not it’s flaw !

the old cars esc and electronics were poor if you did want to drive it a bit faster and the steering was not great.

The new engine looks great, will feel strong on gear change due to the torque band.
Car has no lift so will feel better at speed, , the steering will be better etc etc.

To drive it will be 20% better than the old one imo and on track 40% better.

But 50% less exciting than a 987.

As the review said, if you want this car you have to accept its flaws as no other new cars does what it does.

But current 981 owners are deluded saying this ones not as good.

I’m just really looking forward to finding out really and hoping it arrives b4 the end of October (to mitigate any potential duty impact)

Let’s see

[Cheib]

RSVP911 said:

I do agree if I had a 981 Spyder I probably wouldn’t pay the extra to upgrade, but if you could choose between the two at list / your own spec I think the vast majority of people would go 718 - no matter what they say on here

Edited by RSVP911 on Saturday 3rd August 08:17

120 % and a great spec ! So good to see these cars being specced in the bolder/brighter colours.

[Kazandy37]

I am going for GTSM, Red Roof with Classic Spyder interior. Trying to decide whether it’s. black or Platinum wheels and whether buckets or 18way. Other than that I can’t wait!! Missed out last time and never wanted to pay overs - great I now have a chance to spec exactly what I want.
October build so likely November delivery - be good though if it comes before 31st Oct!!

[Dave_T]

Well I’m really looking forward to getting my 718 Spyder! I think it will be a great car and loads of fun. The power train seems very well matched for my intended use for the car but I’ll make my own mind up when I drive it.

For what it’s worth I always felt the 981 GT4 engine was lacking, I loved the sound but problematic for track days and you end up looking like a bit of a tool with all the pops and bangs when driving through villages. I sold mine as soon as I’d driven a 991.2 GT3 and have never regretted it, the GT3 is in a different league.

I am really strugggling with the colour choice, have specced Miami Blue and lots of bling at the moment (love the colour now, having not liked it initially), thought I might switch to GTSM with the Spyder interior, but having looked at that combo on 981 cars I think the interior is over fussy and overall its a bit boring. I loved the Racing Yellow on GT4 but want a change from that. May now switch to Guards Red.

[RSVP911]

Dave_T said:

Well I’m really looking forward to getting my 718 Spyder! I think it will be a great car and loads of fun. The power train seems very well matched for my intended use for the car but I’ll make my own mind up when I drive it.

For what it’s worth I always felt the 981 GT4 engine was lacking, I loved the sound but problematic for track days and you end up looking like a bit of a tool with all the pops and bangs when driving through villages. I sold mine as soon as I’d driven a 991.2 GT3 and have never regretted it, the GT3 is in a different league.

I am really strugggling with the colour choice, have specced Miami Blue and lots of bling at the moment (love the colour now, having not liked it initially), thought I might switch to GTSM with the Spyder interior, but having looked at that combo on 981 cars I think the interior is over fussy and overall its a bit boring. I loved the Racing Yellow on GT4 but want a change from that. May now switch to Guards Red.

Yeo, colours always the hard bit - I think it’s a very pretty can and looks good in most of them

[av185]

Agree on the GTS colour but if I was getting a 718 Spyder (which I turned down a slot for a GT4 instead) I would go GTS with non red interior and red roof.

Yes as HC says the gulf between the 981 Spyder and 718 Spyder is obviously greater this time than the GT4 but whether this equates to it being a more usable and fun car remains to be seen as one of the pluses with the 981 Spyder as we have discussed before is that it really had nothing to prove unlike the GT4 which in many ways fell short of its GT status. I actually prefer the fact that the new Spyder appears to have less 'contrived sound' than the 981 which in Sport modes was quite irritating.

[RSVP911]

av185 said:

Agree on the GTS colour but if I was getting a 718 Spyder (which I turned down a slot for a GT4 instead) I would go GTS with non red interior and red roof.

Yes as HC says the gulf between the 981 Spyder and 718 Spyder is obviously greater this time than the GT4 but whether this equates to it being a more usable and fun car remains to be seen as one of the pluses with the 981 Spyder as we have discussed before is that it really had nothing to prove unlike the GT4 which in many ways fell short of its GT status. I actually prefer the fact that the new Spyder appears to have less 'contrived sound' than the 981 which in Sport modes was quite irritating.

Yep agree on the sound point - fatty pops are never a good look - fun for a while and then very iterating - I virtually never put the PSE on in mine. (I realise without PSE on at “x” revs it made no difference either way) I have to say in the HC vids I really like the sound from both the GT4 and Spyder - sounds great to my ear, no idea what all the fuss is about.

I really like the look of the new GT4. Very easy to spec for me ; it would be Yellow / Plat Wheels / PCCB / Yellow stitch and black metal trim and 918 buckets - job done (unless you go black with gold ??)

Edited by RSVP911 on Saturday 3rd August 10:56

[notsomadmick]

This review from Road and Track - curious in some ways - but does make a point re chassis worth noting:

"As such, the Spyder’s sharper-but-harsher chassis makes less sense than the 718 GTS –whether on backroads in Scotland or near Lime Rock, Connecticut. Same goes for the peaky 4.0-liter flat-six, which shines on-track in the GT4, but doesn’t get to breathe and shout much on the road. That much-anticipated engine adds another 204 lbs to the Spyder, too, compared to a stick-shift GTS. That’s weight worth noting."

Full review here:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives...

[av185]

Well if you can get a GT3 to 'breathe and shout' on the road a GT4 should be no problem whatsoever.

[Porsche911R]

av185 said:

Well if you can get a GT3 to 'breathe and shout' on the road a GT4 should be no problem whatsoever.

I change gear in my GT3 in 3rd under a ton , the new 718 red lines at > 116mph.

The thing is you need to rev all these engines esp now Porsche have given you torque way up the range, but it does mean the very same issue as the 981, when 3rd will take the cars past 116 mph. A bit more in the 718 as it revs higher.

So it’s much easier to get a GT3 to shout on the road, A: because it’s much faster you need less room between bends and b: you change gears at lower speeds.

The GT4 needs a long road to wind up in 3rd the very same issue I hated in my 996 GT3.

Where the GT3 punches though the gears in very short lengths of road, so added to that you brake more you change gear more etc etc way more involving even though it’s faster, people seem to miss that you Infact are doing a lot more.

The 981 you seem to leave in 3rd and that’s that, it’s pretty unexciting to drive like the 981 Spyder is. It’s too fast to be fun, but then not fast enough to be fun.....

So you sit at 85mph low down in 3rd on B roads and it takes it all in, on small straight it winds up to 116 odd in 3rd so no need to ever see 4th. And as you don’t really go below 65 odd on B roads you don’t change into 2nd either.

I am sure if people drove these cars they would realise all this .....

But the gearing killed the whole manual 981 range GTS more so and the 718 is no better.

The PDK GT4 will be the box to bring the car alive, or buy a manual GT3.

It’s a shame as for £64k plus options I was hoping my GT4 would be my forever car, but my Cayman R were just way more fun.

GT4 is an entry level track car, nothing more and at that it excels imo, as a road car buy something else more fun.

Edited by Porsche911R on Saturday 3rd August 18:39

[TB303]

Is it really emissions that has driven the decision for Porsche to gear the 987/981/718 long?

For comparison, here is what a Ferrari 458 7 speed DCT does in each gear:

1st: 49 mph
2nd: 68 mph
3rd: 92 mph
4th: 116 mph
5th: 145 mph
6th: 178 mph
7th: 216 mph (theoretical)

Shorter gearing than a 981 PDK even... Shorter gearing than a 360 or 430!

“For emissions reasons” if true must be to keep the car within a preferred co2 band, rather than because they had to.

Maybe they didn’t want to spend on a new gear box, or maybe it’s a case of keeping it below the 911 models again...

911R, which remap is it that will give 410 on a 981 3.8, and does that require sport headers or any other mods?

[isaldiri]

The gt3 redline in 3rd is 110+ mph. If one chooses to change gears well below that, there's nothing to stop someone else doing exactly the same as you in the gt4.

Now obviously the gt3 accelerates faster so you can get to speeds where you will change gear while one wouldn't in the less powerful car but equally that extra power means the gt4 should be accelerate to the next gear change point at least as quickly as a Cayman R.....

[Porsche911R]

isaldiri said:

The gt3 redline in 3rd is 110+ mph. If one chooses to change gears well below that, there's nothing to stop someone else doing exactly the same as you in the gt4.

Now obviously the gt3 accelerates faster so you can get to speeds where you will change gear while one wouldn't in the less powerful car but equally that extra power means the gt4 should be accelerate to the next gear change point at least as quickly as a Cayman R.....

It’s how you use the engine, , I just sold my GTS and that makes power to red line , the GT3 don't, so even driving VERY fast my changes were about 76 in 2nd and 96 in 3rd.

On track the 9k limit gives you options as it don’t really loose power like the 991.1 so mid bend on track you can stay in the same gear and use the 9k if needed, but you don,t have to to hit max power or acceleration in this car. Changing at 8300 to 8500 drops you in a crazy power band. Only time I hit 9k on the road is an over take some times if I can get by without a shift.

In my 991.1 GTS you spin it to red line, but that was PDK so again lower ratio's anyway.
Great engine that but that had to go all the way to the limit, in fact you hit the limiter as it just wants to rev and make power.

As I said, I am gobsmaked the remarks as I drive these cars day to day.

People took the piss 4 years ago when I said you leave the GT4 in 3rd and 4 years later Jurno's and forums now moan you leave it in 3rd, you cannot make it up really.

It,s a fine line what works on the road imo, but the 996 , 997 GT3, GT4 and 981 Spyder all suffer with gearing.

The 458 as listed above is a hoot as you are up and down those paddles it’s fun.
The long gearing is not for emissions Porsche had had this issue since 2001 ! And the co2 is crazy high in the GT4’s. Old and new.

It's the same gearing in the 987 also but the 20” tyre combo just sap the life from the 981's.
I really wanted to fit my R wheels to my 981 Spyder but sadly did not have the time, but imo would be worthwhile.

[Porsche911R]

TB303 said:

Is it really emissions that has driven the decision for Porsche to gear the 987/981/718 long?


911R, which remap is it that will give 410 on a 981 3.8, and does that require sport headers or any other mods?

A Cobb access port gets you over 400bho, a full hardware tune gives you 435 and more torque, try and get a drive in Chris’ yellow GT4, it's really a strong car. And he would take you out no issue at a track day.

It pulls like a train that car, but it also handles on rails and stops on a dime,
It’s amazing what Porsche could do if they wished on the GT4 for no extra cost than the oem car. They really hold the GT4’s back

Hence I said I might even buy another at £65k to mod, but I think I am going for 997.1 GT3 project. Eps does my head for ultimate fun. My 987.2 is still the car for fun it’s so alive.