Possible 987 Cayman S purchase - advice and help please
Discussion
Hi all, I am looking at purchchasing my first Porsche. I gave done quite a bit of research in the past but there isn't a great deal of information on the Cayman, well specifically in the direction I'm looking, so hoping you guys could shed a bit of light...
Firstly, the car I'm looking at has PCCB. It's not an option I've had down as a must have but if they are fitted them I want to take advantage of. However, the costs are scaring me when its replacement time. What's the current state of play.... How !much are replacements (a lot of conflicting info)? Do they have to come from Porsche? What are the best iron alternatives and the costs? Is a refurb system available like the 997 etc?
Secondly, and I appreciate this is difficult but judging from the pictures, what state are the rotors? Are the wear indicators showing through in the areas where circles are appearing?
Thirdly, warranties, are they viable? Who is currently offering the best warrenty? Do they pay on any of the common problems?
Fourthly, The car in question is a 2008 gen1 car. It's on 52k and has full Porsche service history, is there anything I should be checking for or aware of prior to viewing?
Finally, What must be considered as must have options? I appreciate this is a preferance more than anything else but thought i would ask as this car is really well specced, has every option I'm looking for but if not, I would be interested to hear what is essential. Also what would you expect to get for a 25k budget?
Any help is appreciated!
Firstly, the car I'm looking at has PCCB. It's not an option I've had down as a must have but if they are fitted them I want to take advantage of. However, the costs are scaring me when its replacement time. What's the current state of play.... How !much are replacements (a lot of conflicting info)? Do they have to come from Porsche? What are the best iron alternatives and the costs? Is a refurb system available like the 997 etc?
Secondly, and I appreciate this is difficult but judging from the pictures, what state are the rotors? Are the wear indicators showing through in the areas where circles are appearing?
Thirdly, warranties, are they viable? Who is currently offering the best warrenty? Do they pay on any of the common problems?
Fourthly, The car in question is a 2008 gen1 car. It's on 52k and has full Porsche service history, is there anything I should be checking for or aware of prior to viewing?
Finally, What must be considered as must have options? I appreciate this is a preferance more than anything else but thought i would ask as this car is really well specced, has every option I'm looking for but if not, I would be interested to hear what is essential. Also what would you expect to get for a 25k budget?
Any help is appreciated!
Rockster said:
Well, I'm sure I am in the minority but I'd have PCCB's on my "new" Cayman in a heartbeat. ('course I looked at a low miles used 2014, and 2 new 2015's, yesterday and all 3 had the iron brakes... Just my luck.)............
Happy shopping.
Thanks for your feedback, will check out the details on the features regarding the ceramics.Happy shopping.
bcr5784 said:
You'll find PCCBs divides opinions like nothing other than PDK vs manual. The paradox is that on track (where it probably does have braking advantages) the costs of replacements is so high that many prefer steel, and on the road steel disks might have an advantage - except when it comes brake dust is concerned...
Thanks, in an ideal world the PCCB's would be a massive selling point for me (saying that i would probably laid on a beach somewhere if it was an ideal world!). I would prefer to have a car with them, but only if they can be realistically be replaced. I do plan to track the car, 3 or 4 times a year so it will be a factor in speeding up the wear process. From the limited info available it still appears that steel/iron discs are still in excess of £800 a rotor... Ozzie Osmond said:
norscot said:
Think I'd use that budget to look for a gen 2 car without PCCB...
It's all just personal opinion but I have to say, I agree.Happy for any links to any you guys can find, as my results with the usual places; RSJ, Harbour cars, Trader, PH etc all seem unproductive.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Its comfortably south of £25k, that just happens to be my budget. In fairness, i would have agreed initially, but the market has dried up and demand is driving prices north, as above, when looking 18 months ago, the Cayman is the same price now as it was then. The car in question is 'fully loaded' and I am particular about spec as i know what i am looking for. This one in question has the following options:
PASM - Must have
Sports Chrono - Desirable
Sports Exhaust - Desirable
Cruise Control - Must have
Xenons - Desirable
PCM - Must have
Phone Connectivity - Must have
Carbon Buckets - Desirable (Sports seats were a must have)
Aero Pack
PCCB's
Turbo Wheels
6 CD Autochanger
all with a full Porsche service history.
I'm sure the standards are up to the job and I'm sure the PCCB's are even better. I only mention track days as the additional wear is a concern on the ceramics.
Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Fl0pp3r said:
My 10 cents - don't let the PCCBs put you off, they are an excellent option as long as you're not planning to track the car intensively and frequently. I have them on my GT3 and I can definitely feel the benefit in both retardation (no sniggering) and lightness. I was initially concerned at replacement cost, but you now have plenty of options in terms of OEM steel replacements OR you can have them refurbished to a higher than OEM standard by a company like SICOM relatively inexpensively:
http://www.carbonceramicbrake.com/porsche.html
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=150...
From what I can see on the above images, those look to be in fine fettle - the surface appears to be still shiny :-)
Must have options? Maybe PCM, sports exhaust and manual to be honest, but condition is far more important, particularly if the model you're looking at suffers from M96/97 weaknesses. Ask Cmoose he knows his Caymans!
Cheers. 1700 Euros per disc is still more than I am wanting (again, or able) to spend on a consumable such as rotors.http://www.carbonceramicbrake.com/porsche.html
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=150...
From what I can see on the above images, those look to be in fine fettle - the surface appears to be still shiny :-)
Must have options? Maybe PCM, sports exhaust and manual to be honest, but condition is far more important, particularly if the model you're looking at suffers from M96/97 weaknesses. Ask Cmoose he knows his Caymans!
The thing that sticks in my mind is that whilst its now a £25k~ car, its a £50/60k car that needs maintaining and to do this adequately would have to exclude PCCB's.
Glad you think the rotors are in good condition. I have asked the garage to get back to me ref the details on the brakes and if any of the history show replacements. If they are recent this maybe enough to sway in this direction.
I didn't list manual as the required spec as its sacrilege to have anything but in a Cayman!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks for your thoughts. Just in answer to your points..PCM is required as I'm led to believe that you cant have any phone function without it? A dated 4 letter/Number postcode Nav is not the priority when google maps is a lot better alternative.
As stated, I wasn't looking for PCCB's, just happened to come up and I'm a little concerned about subsequent costs, vs the additional performance if any.
FSH is a bonus, but, again any car can have issues regardless of age. Hence why i asked about warranties and if they are worthwhile for the Caymans and if so, who to look to in particular. What makes the Gen2 cars that much more reliable? What issues have been fixed?
If Gen2 is what most would consider a better buy, thats a direction i would be looking to take. It just seems there arent any Gen2 cars around, nevermind with some of the spec i am looking for. Which, i would be willing to compromise on for the right car/deal.
I would have the bores checked on the car, appreciate your thoughts on that. Do they suffer like the early 997's? Would a borescope be covered in a specialists pre-purchase inspection?
I've come here to ask for advice and fully prepared to listen to it. I appreciate all feedback. I've come from outside of the Porsche world and the sports car scene having just sold my Megane track toy and a 3 series oil burner to free up the funds to buy a new car. I haven't decided that a Cayman (or this car) is the direction I am definitely going to go in.
If anyone has any cars on their radar that are gen2 if this is the better car, sub £25k that are manual and come with PASM as a minimum then I am all ears.
Thanks again
Trev450 said:
Tubes89 said:
I'm sure the standards are up to the job and I'm sure the PCCB's are even better. I only mention track days as the additional wear is a concern on the ceramics.
Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Just one of many sources: http://www.porscheshop.co.uk/acatalog/porsche_caym...Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Fl0pp3r said:
PCCB performance on track is not in doubt, they provide tangible benefits but longevity is obvious reduced if you track A LOT, that's the point. If you're using your car on road primarily with a few TD's per year - PCCB's have the potential to outlast steel by quite a margin; if you change the pads on time the discs can last the life of the vehicle or certainly your ownership thereof.
Don't think you'll be getting into a gen2 Cayman for £25k, will you?
Personally I don't, but others seem to think so.Don't think you'll be getting into a gen2 Cayman for £25k, will you?
Trev450 said:
Tubes89 said:
Trev450 said:
Tubes89 said:
I'm sure the standards are up to the job and I'm sure the PCCB's are even better. I only mention track days as the additional wear is a concern on the ceramics.
Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Just one of many sources: http://www.porscheshop.co.uk/acatalog/porsche_caym...Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Try speaking with Ian at http://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/ There's not much he can't do when it comes to brakes.
So I went up to look at the car at the weekend, more so out of curiosity than anything as I also planned to go have a look at a M135i and a M235i as a comparison (completely different cars I know).
Having got there, the car was better in the flesh than the pictures let on. After a good prod round and a drive out I was really impressed, the car wdrove really well and I liked it. We decided to talk figures and they offered more for my e92 oil burner than I expected so it led to deeper conversations, as contrary to opinions in here, in the current market i dont think the cars a bad price after what we discussed.
Now the brakes didn't scare me, they seemed in great condition and I was really impressed at the pedal feel (though admittedly it's been two years since i drove a regular Cayman).
However, it's the borescoring issue and whilst they were offering a 1 year warranty I told them that I would want the car inspected. The dealer got a bit defensive and I'm not sure if it was because he was convinced i was going to buy it and was disappointed by my stance or whether his reaction was worried about I might find. Being stubborn as I am I shut down the conversation pretty much there and then and left.
So the question is.... Is a PPI worth while? And who to go to? The car is in Carlisle and everyone wants the car taking to them. The dealer won't budge unless I put down a non refundable deposit which is understabdable. I'm still not 100% sure if it's the right thing but I have an itch to scratch.
Having got there, the car was better in the flesh than the pictures let on. After a good prod round and a drive out I was really impressed, the car wdrove really well and I liked it. We decided to talk figures and they offered more for my e92 oil burner than I expected so it led to deeper conversations, as contrary to opinions in here, in the current market i dont think the cars a bad price after what we discussed.
Now the brakes didn't scare me, they seemed in great condition and I was really impressed at the pedal feel (though admittedly it's been two years since i drove a regular Cayman).
However, it's the borescoring issue and whilst they were offering a 1 year warranty I told them that I would want the car inspected. The dealer got a bit defensive and I'm not sure if it was because he was convinced i was going to buy it and was disappointed by my stance or whether his reaction was worried about I might find. Being stubborn as I am I shut down the conversation pretty much there and then and left.
So the question is.... Is a PPI worth while? And who to go to? The car is in Carlisle and everyone wants the car taking to them. The dealer won't budge unless I put down a non refundable deposit which is understabdable. I'm still not 100% sure if it's the right thing but I have an itch to scratch.
Edited by Tubes89 on Monday 3rd August 22:14
Cheers gents.
Hartech are going to be calling back ref warrenty today, as even an untrained eye like mine looking through the T&Cs I was aware that it wasn't going to cover the common issues.
I wouldn't get too caught up in the price the car is for sale. Though it's still north of £20k
I've hunted high and low for the last week all over trader, piston heads, specialist dealer pages and it appears that the car is priced well given it spec, age and mileage. I would love someone to prove me wrong (because it will save me money!!) but it appears to be accurate. You cant get a gen2 car for sub 28k, if you want to pay less than early twenties it's going to have been to the moon and back or it's an early car at base spec (which is naturally going to be worth less to trade it). It's as surprising for me that cars I was looking at 18 months ago are the same price today.
Hartech are going to be calling back ref warrenty today, as even an untrained eye like mine looking through the T&Cs I was aware that it wasn't going to cover the common issues.
I wouldn't get too caught up in the price the car is for sale. Though it's still north of £20k
I've hunted high and low for the last week all over trader, piston heads, specialist dealer pages and it appears that the car is priced well given it spec, age and mileage. I would love someone to prove me wrong (because it will save me money!!) but it appears to be accurate. You cant get a gen2 car for sub 28k, if you want to pay less than early twenties it's going to have been to the moon and back or it's an early car at base spec (which is naturally going to be worth less to trade it). It's as surprising for me that cars I was looking at 18 months ago are the same price today.
Edited by Tubes89 on Tuesday 4th August 06:25
Hartech have left me a message. Need to call them back.
Still browsing everywhere but cant find anything, not that I am in a particular rush, just be nice to see some god weather still.
Booked to go see an e92 M3 & 235i on Saturday (even though both outside of my budget, some employee discount can be had and passed on) so who knows. Cayman still a strong contender!
Still browsing everywhere but cant find anything, not that I am in a particular rush, just be nice to see some god weather still.
Booked to go see an e92 M3 & 235i on Saturday (even though both outside of my budget, some employee discount can be had and passed on) so who knows. Cayman still a strong contender!
Well thought I would just update the thread....
Didn't end up test driving the M3 but did drive the M235i at that point. Was set on a Cayman. Ended up getting dragged abroad with work so put everything on hold.
Recently test drove a lot of cars not really knowing what I wanted.... S3, RS3, m135, a45 amg, S5, Z4M coupe, Megane 275 trophy and then lastly an e92 M3 and that was the one.... I knew instantly I wanted one (even though Iwas convinced it was going to be a Porsche).
So I set out on a hunt for one, found a couple locally and began to choose my desired spec and colour combo etc. Resulted in a long drive down to London one Sunday with a hangover looking at a Monte Carlo edition car. Got there and it was a state, rough part of London and didn't appear to be a dealer though they are listed with 30-40 cars for sale... Quick look on trader and I found a car listed that morning, had the perfect spec, age and milage though the colour in the pictures didn't look great but decided to head in the direction of Southampton. Got there and I knew this was the car. Blew my budget by 2k but worth while and I haven't stopped smiling.
I know its not quite the drivers car and never on a million years did i forsee driving a auto but it ticks all boxes, pace, looks, performance, comfort and ability to go round track rather quickly!
Will deffo have a Porsche at some point but not just yet....
Pics (love how much the colour changes in different light)
![](http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t450/Tobyswain/Car%202/IMAG0017_3_zpspmybu6kr.jpg[/IMG]</a> <a href="http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/Tobyswain/media/Car%202/IMG-20150906-WA0040_zpsk2ozgzls.jpg.html" Target="_blank">[IMG]http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t450/Tobyswain/Car%202/IMG-20150906-WA0040_zpsk2ozgzls.jpg)
Didn't end up test driving the M3 but did drive the M235i at that point. Was set on a Cayman. Ended up getting dragged abroad with work so put everything on hold.
Recently test drove a lot of cars not really knowing what I wanted.... S3, RS3, m135, a45 amg, S5, Z4M coupe, Megane 275 trophy and then lastly an e92 M3 and that was the one.... I knew instantly I wanted one (even though Iwas convinced it was going to be a Porsche).
So I set out on a hunt for one, found a couple locally and began to choose my desired spec and colour combo etc. Resulted in a long drive down to London one Sunday with a hangover looking at a Monte Carlo edition car. Got there and it was a state, rough part of London and didn't appear to be a dealer though they are listed with 30-40 cars for sale... Quick look on trader and I found a car listed that morning, had the perfect spec, age and milage though the colour in the pictures didn't look great but decided to head in the direction of Southampton. Got there and I knew this was the car. Blew my budget by 2k but worth while and I haven't stopped smiling.
I know its not quite the drivers car and never on a million years did i forsee driving a auto but it ticks all boxes, pace, looks, performance, comfort and ability to go round track rather quickly!
Will deffo have a Porsche at some point but not just yet....
Pics (love how much the colour changes in different light)
Edited by Tubes89 on Saturday 26th September 22:33
Well it's escalated in here gents!
Ref the new vs old. I bought the best I could afford, would I purchase the new m3. I'm not sure , I haven't driven it. What I can say is the gearbox is supreme and whilst it doesn't have the same positive feeling as the DCT it certainly is efficient. Engine wise, I've driven the baby version in the 135i and the 235i and found it to be a positive experience. Sound wise though they aren't in the same league as the s50 engine in the e9X series. They need the M Performance exhaust.
On track at Cadwell tomorrow as had a phone call from the TDO and offered me a price I couldn't refuse as opposed to just being a passenger!
Ref the new vs old. I bought the best I could afford, would I purchase the new m3. I'm not sure , I haven't driven it. What I can say is the gearbox is supreme and whilst it doesn't have the same positive feeling as the DCT it certainly is efficient. Engine wise, I've driven the baby version in the 135i and the 235i and found it to be a positive experience. Sound wise though they aren't in the same league as the s50 engine in the e9X series. They need the M Performance exhaust.
On track at Cadwell tomorrow as had a phone call from the TDO and offered me a price I couldn't refuse as opposed to just being a passenger!
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