Resto/Mod Backdating costs...

[Ranger 6]

Slippydiff said:

julian987R said:

This is definitely Porsche 911 restomodding done right

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/evomax-chal...

If anyone thinks this ^ is “restomodding done right”, I’d suggest a visit to Specsavers is in order, and pronto ...

[Cheib]

Yellow491 said:

Cheib said:

BertBert said:

GTRene said:

just came across this one, maybe already posted (Ifso I forgot) but nice, its RHD so more fot you UK readers.
Looks very good me thinks, almost new and almost 120k.











https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1427140

Hateful. 3.0 SC at an inflated price with wheels and tyres that are absurdly huge. What is wrong with people?

Agree about the wheels….I think one of the great things about the early 911’s is that the wheels/tyres always tell you something about the engine sitting int he back of the car. Porsche literally put just enough rubber on the car to do the job….and in some cases you could say not enough. I look at this car and think it’s going to have probably pretty awful steering and probably not be that exciting to drive.

How do you work out the steering will be awful from some pics.
A st with 8&9 set up properly is a joy to behold.

911 ST was sub 900 kg with somewhere between 225 and 250 bhp wasn’t it ? My guess is this car is north of 1100 kg with similar power. In my opinion this car doesn’t need tyres that wide or wheels that heavy to deal with the power. It’s also got modern semi slick tyres on it so would have a lot more grip than an ST would have on the modern version of a period correct tyre.

That’s my view anyway…but I haven;t driven an ST or this car so it is all a guess.

[julian987R]

Ranger 6 said:

Slippydiff said:

julian987R said:

This is definitely Porsche 911 restomodding done right

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/evomax-chal...

If anyone thinks this ^ is “restomodding done right”, I’d suggest a visit to Specsavers is in order, and pronto ...

Their Targa I agree is poor. i didn't post the Targa for that reason, but the Coupe is nice. Its nowhere near Singer's league but nice though....but not the Targa!

[julian987R]

Slippydiff said:

julian987R said:

perhaps, but I wonder what is hiding behind the posh leather frunk liner in a Singer.

Here you go, from 12 mins 12 secs on :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQ4hQSusjE

And all of it executed properly and to the high standard you’d expect from Singer

I know, 100% agree....but there must be space for a few other companies surely, or is the vibe I am picking up here that its a Singer or just don't bother. Is there no room for others?

[belfry]

I quite fancy some led headlights like these for my 1987 930. They seem to be on many 911 restomods, but are they MOT compliant? I understood that aftermarket headlights were now a MOT fail?

https://www.stuttgart-classica.co.uk/bodyexterior/...

[Slippydiff]

julian987R said:

I know, 100% agree....but there must be space for a few other companies surely, or is the vibe I am picking up here that its a Singer or just don't bother. Is there no room for others?

Whilst the Singer’s aesthetics are divisive, the standard of their builds, be that the fit and finish (their panel gap and flush is superior to every other car manufacturer bar none) is pretty much peerless.
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and on that basis, plenty of companies out there clearly think Singer is the gold standard.
Rob Dickinson has said he finds it somewhat frustrating that so many companies have sprung up trying to replicate Singer’s products, primarily because it shows a lack of originality on their part.

There are a couple of companies out there doing 964/993 to early 911 longhood restomods which are pretty good, but neither of them have gone to lengths Singer have to ensure the details are as well engineered and trimmed.

Ruf’s offerings are very special, though having spent many hours studying the guts of their CTR3, I’m not convinced they’re engineered to the same standards as the Californian company.

[Mumsn3t]

Why is this debate/discussion not considering cost? I'm sure everyone is aware how much singers cost. With that much money for a build, scales of economy is the only prohibiting factor. I imagine the majority of the builds posted above are a tiny fraction of the cost.
You get what you pay for apparently.

Personally I'd rather spend 20% of a singer and get a vast proportion of the experience. But that's just me.

[Slippydiff]

Mumsn3t said:

Why is this debate/discussion not considering cost? I'm sure everyone is aware how much singers cost. With that much money for a build, scales of economy is the only prohibiting factor. I imagine the majority of the builds posted above are a tiny fraction of the cost.
You get what you pay for apparently.

Personally I'd rather spend 20% of a singer and get a vast proportion of the experience. But that's just me.

I suspect the average Singer purchaser already has a large collection featuring many exotic cars, and whilst the Singer is no doubt excellent to drive dynamically, most are considered little more than Faberge eggs to their owners. Hence the low mileage most of cars display when they have appeared on the open market.

[Mumsn3t]

Slippydiff said:

I suspect the average Singer purchaser already has a large collection featuring many exotic cars, and whilst the Singer is no doubt excellent to drive dynamically, most are considered little more than Faberge eggs to their owners. Hence the low mileage most of cars display when they have appeared on the open market.

I agree, but I don't think we can compare them to the 'average' build. If they were like for like cost wise, then yes. I Know someone who has one, hasn't turned a wheel in 2years. I'm currently at the Ring with my build. I know which I'd prefer.

[MrVert]

I’d agree with that, mine was well under £100k when it was built (by Tutthill a few years ago) which meant I could use it properly, including tracking it a few times. I’d hate going through a full build process to then not use it to its potential.

The problem now is that to get a decent one built, you’re into £150k - £200k territory and at that level I think there’s better cars out there. 997.2 GT3 would be where my money’s going this year for way less money and all the thrills you can get from a 911…

Having said that, if set up properly with a strong drivetrain, they’re huge fun to hustle along the back roads.

[Slippydiff]

MrVert said:

I’d agree with that, mine was well under £100k when it was built (by Tutthill a few years ago) which meant I could use it properly, including tracking it a few times. I’d hate going through a full build process to then not use it to its potential.

The problem now is that to get a decent one built, you’re into £150k - £200k territory and at that level I think there’s better cars out there. 997.2 GT3 would be where my money’s going this year for way less money and all the thrills you can get from a 911…

Having said that, if set up properly with a strong drivetrain, they’re huge fun to hustle along the back roads.

All true, but if you want an aircooled 911 with all its character, tactility and engagement, no modern watercooled GT Porsche will provide them ...
It’s the same with the E30 M3, an E46 is afar, far superior car from pretty much every perspective, but it’s not an E30 M3 ...

I’m pretty sure I could commission a 964 RS’seque build for £150K that would be quicker and chassis wise dynamically superior to a Singer, but it wouldn’t be a Singer, and I’m doubtful there’d be a load of individuals forming a queue around the block prepared to wait 2+ years to buy it or a clone of it. Nor would they be willing to pay £150K for it.

I’m guessing that a huge part of the appeal of Singer ownership is the process of liaising with Singer’s personnel to specify the trim, the exterior paint colour, chassis and engine specification and a thousand other details to ensure your car is built to your own individual specification.
As I understand it, once your car is in build, you’re updated weekly ? with images and information/queries on build specifications, and once you’ve taken delivery, you become part of a very elite club.

And yet having had such a car tailored and built to your own very individual specification, many remain undriven by their owners, and are then subsequently sold, all of which takes us full circle to the conclusion that for many, the “journey” of the build process is more alluring than the “holiday” of actual ownership.

[Yellow491]

Slippydiff said:

MrVert said:

I’d agree with that, mine was well under £100k when it was built (by Tutthill a few years ago) which meant I could use it properly, including tracking it a few times. I’d hate going through a full build process to then not use it to its potential.

The problem now is that to get a decent one built, you’re into £150k - £200k territory and at that level I think there’s better cars out there. 997.2 GT3 would be where my money’s going this year for way less money and all the thrills you can get from a 911…

Having said that, if set up properly with a strong drivetrain, they’re huge fun to hustle along the back roads.

All true, but if you want an aircooled 911 with all its character, tactility and engagement, no modern watercooled GT Porsche will provide them ...
It’s the same with the E30 M3, an E46 is afar, far superior car from pretty much every perspective, but it’s not an E30 M3 ...

I’m pretty sure I could commission a 964 RS’seque build for £150K that would be quicker and chassis wise dynamically superior to a Singer, but it wouldn’t be a Singer, and I’m doubtful there’d be a load of individuals forming a queue around the block prepared to wait 2+ years to buy it or a clone of it. Nor would they be willing to pay £150K for it.

I’m guessing that a huge part of the appeal of Singer ownership is the process of liaising with Singer’s personnel to specify the trim, the exterior paint colour, chassis and engine specification and a thousand other details to ensure your car is built to your own individual specification.
As I understand it, once your car is in build, you’re updated weekly ? with images and information/queries on build specifications, and once you’ve taken delivery, you become part of a very elite club.

And yet having had such a car tailored and built to your own very individual specification, many remain undriven by their owners, and are then subsequently sold, all of which takes us full circle to the conclusion that for many, the “journey” of the build process is more alluring than the “holiday” of actual ownership.

Wait until you see my tailormade 650kg/230bhp beauty slippy,oil air cooled butzi special with fia papers.;)

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

Wait until you see my tailormade 650kg/230bhp beauty slippy,oil air cooled butzi special with fia papers.;)

Look forward to it Paul, are you at Prescott next weekend ?

[Yellow491]

Slippydiff said:

Yellow491 said:

Wait until you see my tailormade 650kg/230bhp beauty slippy,oil air cooled butzi special with fia papers.;)

Look forward to it Paul, are you at Prescott next weekend ?

Yes,you coming along,can get you a wrist band if you want

[ditchvisitor]

Paul’s is bloody marvellous!!

Quite taken by mine after putting some miles on it.. 950kgs, 350bhp at the wheels and decent suspension and brakes, quiet and refined it ain’t, goes like stink!!!

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

Yes,you coming along,can get you a wrist band if you want

Yep, will be there on Sunday

[Yellow491]

ditchvisitor said:

Paul’s is bloody marvellous!!

Quite taken by mine after putting some miles on it.. 950kgs, 350bhp at the wheels and decent suspension and brakes, quiet and refined it ain’t, goes like stink!!!

Nearly as much fun as a Heli ditch
Join slippy at prescott if you want a run out.

[belfry]

belfry said:

I quite fancy some led headlights like these for my 1987 930. They seem to be on many 911 restomods, but are they MOT compliant? I understood that aftermarket headlights were now a MOT fail?

https://www.stuttgart-classica.co.uk/bodyexterior/...

Bump
Has anyone on here got these type of headlights and have you had issues at MOT time please?
Many thanks
Belfry

[Filibuster]

belfry said:

belfry said:

I quite fancy some led headlights like these for my 1987 930. They seem to be on many 911 restomods, but are they MOT compliant? I understood that aftermarket headlights were now a MOT fail?

https://www.stuttgart-classica.co.uk/bodyexterior/...

Bump
Has anyone on here got these type of headlights and have you had issues at MOT time please?
Many thanks
Belfry

Do they have an „E“ mark? Can‘t see one and the site doesn‘t state…

[belfry]

I’m not sure what an E Mark is. I can ask the manufacturer. Carbone in Poland also make something similar. I see these lights on loads of backdated 911. I guess Singer is a manufacturer so they wouldn’t be “aftermarket “ but I was worried about whether I can fit them in the UK and still pass my MOT.