964. Time to shake her up a bit.
Discussion
With my GTS gone I am left with the 964 C2 alone as a hooning car. Whilst I am pleased with the way she looks and handles, I do feel she needs tickling up on the performance front. For some context she's running on Bilstein PSS10s, Poweflex bushes and lovely lightweight 17" Fuchs. Geometry has been set by Center Gravity with a ride height of RS +5mm. I've removed the stereo and speakers, spare tyre, jack and whatnot and will remove the rear wiper and motor this winter. Everything else is standard apart from a cat bypass pipe.
I want her to fire out of corners like a bullet, squatting down on her haunches as she goes. I want to pull out of junctions sideways (childish I know but I don't want to go gently into that dark night). I want her to be heard coming down the lovely deserted Welsh roads that are our stamping ground. I want her to be hard and angry and gravel rashy 'cos she'll be the kind of car that wants thrashing every time you get in her.
I guess she'll need harder engine mounts, a stiffer ARB and a strut brace for the front. 310bhp would be good. Can this be done with a chip and some mods to the airbox and exhaust? What about a lightweight flywheel? A LSD is a must, as is a short shift kit. Given that she's on 86k miles with no engine work would it be worth going the whole hog and getting the engine fettled by the likes of Redtek, 9E or Autofarm? And what about brakes, some Pole Positions, RS door cards...
Anyone care to offer advice so that I can start setting up my war chest?
I want her to fire out of corners like a bullet, squatting down on her haunches as she goes. I want to pull out of junctions sideways (childish I know but I don't want to go gently into that dark night). I want her to be heard coming down the lovely deserted Welsh roads that are our stamping ground. I want her to be hard and angry and gravel rashy 'cos she'll be the kind of car that wants thrashing every time you get in her.
I guess she'll need harder engine mounts, a stiffer ARB and a strut brace for the front. 310bhp would be good. Can this be done with a chip and some mods to the airbox and exhaust? What about a lightweight flywheel? A LSD is a must, as is a short shift kit. Given that she's on 86k miles with no engine work would it be worth going the whole hog and getting the engine fettled by the likes of Redtek, 9E or Autofarm? And what about brakes, some Pole Positions, RS door cards...
Anyone care to offer advice so that I can start setting up my war chest?
Porsche911R said:
Sounds fun, lw fly from the RS seems very common.
I always find it disturbing when people talk about their cars as a “her”
I must say I have petrol for blood but a cars a car, not a girl. :-)
Probably my age. Probably not very PC now either. 'It' seems rather impersonal given the emotional investment.I always find it disturbing when people talk about their cars as a “her”
I must say I have petrol for blood but a cars a car, not a girl. :-)
IMI A said:
Worth having a read through this. I always found the stock motor on mine pulled like a train with lots of torque. Certainly felt more than 250bhp. I'd try a remap first and take some weight out. Light weight seats, door cards , rear seat delete, etc. Mine had a LSD optioned so was lucky. Steve Rance is based near you I think - maybe reach out to him as he's gone down this route. Subscribed!
http://porschecarshistory.com/wp-content/old/lib/m...
Thanks IMI A. I did used to be in East Anglia but am now in the borders between England and Wales. Steve Rance's car is certainly an inspiration though. I am really not sure about doing major engine work and suspect, as you suggest, that removing weight will have good effect. The Porsche sports seats are very comfortable though...http://porschecarshistory.com/wp-content/old/lib/m...
The car needs a service too so the ideal would be to give it to someone to do everything at once. Someone mentioned to me that JAZ do something called 'hot sleeving', including exhaust, airbox, mapping, flywheel, diff etc. Would they be a good choice to do the work? On the possible list of candidates, assuming I'm not going down the engine out route, would be; Autofarm, Tuthill, RPM & JAZ. Any advice on who would do a first class job and have a not too eye watering hourly rate?
IMI A said:
All of those indies are top notch. I'd add Tech 9 to the list with them being so near and if you don't mind travelling 9e I've always found open and transparent and very easy to do business with and helpful - 9e did me a massive favour on mechanical repairs after an off on track earlier in the year. Both owners of 9e and Tech 9 have lots of knowledge around 964s too having owned them and I think the Tech 9 owner raced them. Ken/9e at Spa at least a few times a year with a supercharged 964 and a 964 C2. Think he helped Slippy with his 964 too. JZM very good too. All have similar hourly rates but best to find someone you get on with and trust. My 993 goes to Porsche Torque via 911V again very helpful and light on the wallet.
Very useful information IMI A, thank you - I'll start ringing round on Monday. Must say I'm very excited about the whole thing. Hope it delivers on expectation in the end.Jevvy said:
Is the engine using much oil? Does it leak much? If the answer to this is no and no I'd very much encourage you to not open it up and instead spend money on other areas like LW flywheel, engine mounts, remap etc.
Good luck with your project, keep us posted with your plans.
Hmm. That is a good question. It is using some oil, but they do have something of a tendency for this. It doesn't look unusually oily in the engine bay and isn't leaving anything on the garage floor, though I am aware that oil can be collected in the undertray. However at the weekend when I pulled up at a junction I was passed by a small cloud of my own blue smoke, which did smell rather oily. Didn't notice anything after this and the car still pulls strongly (and nothing has come up at service), but it does make me wonder whether the valve guides are on the way out, which would alter the case somewhat. If it does need a top end rebuild then it would make sense to use the opportunity to get some performance gains at the same time. An unjaundiced opinion from an expert needed I think.Good luck with your project, keep us posted with your plans.
Steve Rance said:
I'd keep the engine standard providing the compression test comes back good. These engines offer a poor bhp reward per £ spent. I'd drop the engine, change to a LWF and change the clutch while you are about it. These cars respond well to weight savings and sharper brakes and suspension. My build is on here somewhere. It may prove a useful source of information.
Good luck - and dont forget to keep all of the bits that you remove during the build
Thanks Steve. I will read the thread on your build with interest.Good luck - and dont forget to keep all of the bits that you remove during the build
ras62 said:
Extra power doesn't have to cost a fortune. It's quite common to find pitted cams and rockers when these motors are stripped probably due to modern oil and the low zddp levels. My engine needed two cams and several rockers, two aftermarket cams cost less cost than one new cam from Porsche. Other small mods done during the build added up to a much stonger engine.
Interesting. May I ask who did the work on your car ras62?cornershop said:
Thanks for that. Like the idea of throttle bodies and this seems a good bolt-on alternative to the full set up. Might give Crawford a call.Missed that ras62 but thanks - and thanks for the offer of a drive. Would love to if I'm up your way.
Spoke to Chris at Fenn Lane Motorsport yesterday, who seems to be the nearest of all the suggested specialists. As an earlier poster said he was very knowledgeable and keen not to spend other people's money unnecessarily, a rare and valuable commodity these days. He suggested a compression check and if there is a problem using K-Line bronze liners in the valve guides. Anyone have any view on whether this would be a good solution or would it be better to have the engine out and replace them entirely?
Spoke to Chris at Fenn Lane Motorsport yesterday, who seems to be the nearest of all the suggested specialists. As an earlier poster said he was very knowledgeable and keen not to spend other people's money unnecessarily, a rare and valuable commodity these days. He suggested a compression check and if there is a problem using K-Line bronze liners in the valve guides. Anyone have any view on whether this would be a good solution or would it be better to have the engine out and replace them entirely?
Firstly, thanks Steve for your kind offer. It may be difficult as I'm on the other side of the country, though I do have family in north Essex which is not too far from you.
Also apologies for not replying sooner but I've been suffering from some existential angst about the 964 which has led down a not entirely smooth path...
Buoyed by all the encouragement on this forum I decided the first thing I should do is get the health of the engine checked on the basis of establishing a starting point. So I booked it in with Fenn Lane Motorsport and spent a happy afternoon with Chris Lane discussing all sorts of car related stuff while his engineer did a pressure test and whatnot. Happily the car was deemed strong and Chris's advice was to leave it alone and mod around what we had.
It was rather too easy to get carried away with everything he could do. Throttle bodies, lwf, remap, exhaust, stripping out sound deadening, bucket seats, sunroof delete, removing side impact bars from doors etc. etc. This gave me pause for thought because the danger was that the car would become both too far removed from original and uneconomic when looked at purely in terms of investment (which possibly should not enter into the equation). It may become better but would still never be an RS.
Now I had very fond memories of a Cayman R I had back in 2011 and it occurred to me that this car did pretty much everything I was looking for a modded 964 to do straight out of the box. Relatively light weight (GT3 doors, buckets etc), enough power for road use (330bhp), LSD and so on. Well the long and the short of it is I bought one, somewhat impulsively, and so was back to two cars.
At this point I convinced myself that two cars was too many and that a softening market meant that the 964 should go. And this is where things get a bit sticky. I mentioned to a well respected dealer that I was looking to sell and, after sending photos and some detail, he suggested it might not be the best time (he also had a couple of 964s in already) but that he would bear it in mind if he got any enquires.
Doubts were now surfacing about my decision and with winter approaching I was quite glad that nothing was likely to happen. Needless to say the fates intervened. The dealer had a call from someone looking for a dark colour manual 964 which he was planning to put Fuchs wheels onto. Mine being black and with these already fitted, suddenly the car was provisionally sold. With an increasingly heavy heart I dug out the files of history and gave the old girl a clean prior to the dealer travelling to look at the car. On the brake-drying drive I realised I had made a terrible mistake. The car was manufactured the year my son was born, was my daughter's wedding car and once gone there would be no way I would be able to get another I liked as much. Having agreed verbally to sell decided I could not go through with it.
Pulling out does not cover me in a great light, I know. I would stress that no money had changed hands with me - the car had not even been viewed, nor was anything signed. However two parties were let down and for that I am sorry. But what else could I have done? Gone through with a sale I didn't want just to keep the other parties happy? At the moment I've decided, not for the first time, not to mod the car. The CR will be the b***s out hooner and I'll continue to enjoy the 964 for what it currently offers.
Sorry this is a long and rambling post. Probably I'm looking for some affirmation that I haven't been a total heel. The jury, I suspect, is still out.
Also apologies for not replying sooner but I've been suffering from some existential angst about the 964 which has led down a not entirely smooth path...
Buoyed by all the encouragement on this forum I decided the first thing I should do is get the health of the engine checked on the basis of establishing a starting point. So I booked it in with Fenn Lane Motorsport and spent a happy afternoon with Chris Lane discussing all sorts of car related stuff while his engineer did a pressure test and whatnot. Happily the car was deemed strong and Chris's advice was to leave it alone and mod around what we had.
It was rather too easy to get carried away with everything he could do. Throttle bodies, lwf, remap, exhaust, stripping out sound deadening, bucket seats, sunroof delete, removing side impact bars from doors etc. etc. This gave me pause for thought because the danger was that the car would become both too far removed from original and uneconomic when looked at purely in terms of investment (which possibly should not enter into the equation). It may become better but would still never be an RS.
Now I had very fond memories of a Cayman R I had back in 2011 and it occurred to me that this car did pretty much everything I was looking for a modded 964 to do straight out of the box. Relatively light weight (GT3 doors, buckets etc), enough power for road use (330bhp), LSD and so on. Well the long and the short of it is I bought one, somewhat impulsively, and so was back to two cars.
At this point I convinced myself that two cars was too many and that a softening market meant that the 964 should go. And this is where things get a bit sticky. I mentioned to a well respected dealer that I was looking to sell and, after sending photos and some detail, he suggested it might not be the best time (he also had a couple of 964s in already) but that he would bear it in mind if he got any enquires.
Doubts were now surfacing about my decision and with winter approaching I was quite glad that nothing was likely to happen. Needless to say the fates intervened. The dealer had a call from someone looking for a dark colour manual 964 which he was planning to put Fuchs wheels onto. Mine being black and with these already fitted, suddenly the car was provisionally sold. With an increasingly heavy heart I dug out the files of history and gave the old girl a clean prior to the dealer travelling to look at the car. On the brake-drying drive I realised I had made a terrible mistake. The car was manufactured the year my son was born, was my daughter's wedding car and once gone there would be no way I would be able to get another I liked as much. Having agreed verbally to sell decided I could not go through with it.
Pulling out does not cover me in a great light, I know. I would stress that no money had changed hands with me - the car had not even been viewed, nor was anything signed. However two parties were let down and for that I am sorry. But what else could I have done? Gone through with a sale I didn't want just to keep the other parties happy? At the moment I've decided, not for the first time, not to mod the car. The CR will be the b***s out hooner and I'll continue to enjoy the 964 for what it currently offers.
Sorry this is a long and rambling post. Probably I'm looking for some affirmation that I haven't been a total heel. The jury, I suspect, is still out.
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