458 thoughts....
Discussion
MisterBigglesworth said:
fridaypassion said:
It can work well if the car appreciates I'm hoping the 458 will go up. The 458 is a pretty safe car to have a lease deal on as at least they aren't depreciating. A similar deal on something like a 488 could have you paying 20k to get out of it or having to top up with cash to refinance.
But you you park 50k and its a rental for 2/3 years. At the end of you px or sell with 50k down you'll always have equity in it. If you had bought a new 720 McLaren/F8 for example you will have lost everything you put into it after 3 years. People would normally in that situation put a lower deposit in and gave a much bigger monthly but I'm not really keen on having a load of outgoings. Stems from being poor when I was young always like to keep sensible!
My thinking also.But you you park 50k and its a rental for 2/3 years. At the end of you px or sell with 50k down you'll always have equity in it. If you had bought a new 720 McLaren/F8 for example you will have lost everything you put into it after 3 years. People would normally in that situation put a lower deposit in and gave a much bigger monthly but I'm not really keen on having a load of outgoings. Stems from being poor when I was young always like to keep sensible!
The missing component in this is tax.
I’m a company director and get the bulk of my earnings as dividends and investment capital gains so I can elect how much to pay myself and when to stay under higher rate tax thresholds, for me to draw 145k out of my company over my usual living costs would trigger an additional 64k tax liability this year making the actual cost to buy cash 209K
By putting in 50k I can defer the 95k capital cost over 4 financial years drawing less than 25k a year saving me a total of 20k in tax after deducting the interest cost.
The bonus is I can then keep the 95k invested for 48 months which will generate a capital gain in excess of the interest and any depreciation so by the time I come to settle I will actually be ahead financially of where I would be if I paid cash up front.
There is no point paying down the balance as the interest saved would be less than the equivalent return i’d get using the money for investing, and keeping the payment down to 497 a month means I can cover the debt servicing from money I already paid tax on so don’t need to draw additional dividends to cover it.
This deal was highly optimised for my specific situation - I have no need to finance and no need to sell the car to settle the balloon, and it has been bought as a long term hold which is why I got a 458 not a 488.
People assume everyone finances just because they can’t afford it, for upper rate tax payers debt is just a tax planning instrument when the interest on the debt is less than the tax liability crystallised to access your cash it makes sense to use debt - especially when your capital is outperforming the interest charged to borrow.
Appreciate this sort of financial alchemy is difficult to understand for those on PAYE where it’s not relevant.
Due to age I have very low fixed outgoings < 36k p.a which keeps me in a low tax bracket whilst my income continues to accrue towards retirement sheltered under corporation tax rates at 19 percent so I can draw it down on retirement as a capital gain rather than paying 50 percent plus tax and N.I as it is generated when I have no need for the cash.
Add in the compound effect of leaving the tax saved to continue to be re-invested and it adds up to a much better financial outcome than if I drew a big salary and paid cash for everything.
People who think they are superior paying cash likely are PAYE employees not business owners or heavily investment driven so don’t understand the fully legal tax planning that HNW’s use to maintain their wealth.
I left school at 15 with nothing, I didn’t get to live in Belgravia & buy a Ferrari by being reckless with money - the 458 is the only debt I have which is more than offset by my liquid net worth, and I would not finance a heavily depreciating asset like a car but feel the 458 spider is a safe long term bet based on historical Ferrari price performance vs inflation - try buying a 355 for 35k today, or a 512TR for 45k...
Yes the key is having the liquidity to sort yourself out if there's an issue. On one cars there's no hardback option so you could end up in bother with some cars although most will be leveling out by 4 years old.
Blue SL my comments were more at the prevailing attitude on PH not you personally. Most people just associate having finance on a car with not being able to afford it which might be true for a guy buying a golf that would never have 30k of cash but I would say most people I know with 458 type cars could buy outright if they wanted to but have valid reasons for using finance. We have quite a little fleet of cars but the none financed ones are worth a lot more than my 458. It's all about balance.
Blue SL my comments were more at the prevailing attitude on PH not you personally. Most people just associate having finance on a car with not being able to afford it which might be true for a guy buying a golf that would never have 30k of cash but I would say most people I know with 458 type cars could buy outright if they wanted to but have valid reasons for using finance. We have quite a little fleet of cars but the none financed ones are worth a lot more than my 458. It's all about balance.
echoing the above BlueSL - wasn't directed at anyone on this thread - anyone who can afford a Ferrari either cash or financed generally got to that position by being financially astute enough to understand when to pay cash or when to finance - it will be different for each of us, if you have a lot of liquid cash then it makes sense to put it into assets like Ferraris that are a proven inflation hedge just as if you are an active investor like me then taking advantage of historically low debt finance to leverage trade positions and arbitrage the returns is a sound way to ensure you keep your capital position growing whilst enjoying the car in the interim.
Nice 5:30 am wakeup call this morning. Car was delivered super early so the delivery driver could get out of London before the traffic hit to try and avoid using what diesel he had.
So excitement of arrival tempered by being half asleep and first drive was 20 yards into the carpark to avoid having to explain to any police what I'm doing in a Ferrari at 5:30am still listed as SORN and uninsured
So excitement of arrival tempered by being half asleep and first drive was 20 yards into the carpark to avoid having to explain to any police what I'm doing in a Ferrari at 5:30am still listed as SORN and uninsured
All a bit hectic yesterday.
Gary at First Point did an exceptional job turning around my insurance from a 10am quote to having the policy issued before EOB. Very good orivate client portfolio policy by AIG that allows me to add more cars, comes with full European breakdown, agreed value, choice of repairer, and full green card plus fully comp cover to drive other cars. Premium was good for the quality of cover and the fact I live in central London. He also bundled in a complimentary Supercar Driver Club membership which was activated yesterday as well and a nice bonus.
Just waiting on the new keeper ref to sort the tax out and need to contact Vodafone to activate the navtrak, will be waiting for MID and tax to be sorted before I go for a drive but will probably take a wonder down to have a better look after work.
Also need to sort my plate onto it as the long date registration looks rubbish.
Hopefully get all the admin done by weekend so I can get a proper drive
Gary at First Point did an exceptional job turning around my insurance from a 10am quote to having the policy issued before EOB. Very good orivate client portfolio policy by AIG that allows me to add more cars, comes with full European breakdown, agreed value, choice of repairer, and full green card plus fully comp cover to drive other cars. Premium was good for the quality of cover and the fact I live in central London. He also bundled in a complimentary Supercar Driver Club membership which was activated yesterday as well and a nice bonus.
Just waiting on the new keeper ref to sort the tax out and need to contact Vodafone to activate the navtrak, will be waiting for MID and tax to be sorted before I go for a drive but will probably take a wonder down to have a better look after work.
Also need to sort my plate onto it as the long date registration looks rubbish.
Hopefully get all the admin done by weekend so I can get a proper drive
Durzel said:
Congratulations, enjoy in good health. 
Thank you! Bit frustrated as the sun is now shining and i’m stuck working, car is also still showing as uninsured and untaxed despite having done both, so don't want the aggro off the ANPR until it updates. Hopefully gets sorted by weekend and weather holds.MisterBigglesworth said:
All a bit hectic yesterday.
Gary at First Point did an exceptional job turning around my insurance from a 10am quote to having the policy issued before EOB. Very good orivate client portfolio policy by AIG that allows me to add more cars, comes with full European breakdown, agreed value, choice of repairer, and full green card plus fully comp cover to drive other cars. Premium was good for the quality of cover and the fact I live in central London. He also bundled in a complimentary Supercar Driver Club membership which was activated yesterday as well and a nice bonus.
Just waiting on the new keeper ref to sort the tax out and need to contact Vodafone to activate the navtrak, will be waiting for MID and tax to be sorted before I go for a drive but will probably take a wonder down to have a better look after work.
Also need to sort my plate onto it as the long date registration looks rubbish.
Hopefully get all the admin done by weekend so I can get a proper drive
You need to join the Drivers Union supercar club also, free to join and a very active Ferrari group within the club.Gary at First Point did an exceptional job turning around my insurance from a 10am quote to having the policy issued before EOB. Very good orivate client portfolio policy by AIG that allows me to add more cars, comes with full European breakdown, agreed value, choice of repairer, and full green card plus fully comp cover to drive other cars. Premium was good for the quality of cover and the fact I live in central London. He also bundled in a complimentary Supercar Driver Club membership which was activated yesterday as well and a nice bonus.
Just waiting on the new keeper ref to sort the tax out and need to contact Vodafone to activate the navtrak, will be waiting for MID and tax to be sorted before I go for a drive but will probably take a wonder down to have a better look after work.
Also need to sort my plate onto it as the long date registration looks rubbish.
Hopefully get all the admin done by weekend so I can get a proper drive
_Leg_ said:
MisterBigglesworth said:
Gary at First Point did an exceptional job turning around my insurance
Car is finally updated as taxed and insured, managed to secure a 5 digit private plate which means I can run a narrower but still legal plate. Just waiting for the V5 to complete the transfer. Then have to update insurance etc which will hopefully update mid by the time next weekend comes.
Car updated as being taxed and insured ready for the weekend, hoping to finish work a little early and go for my first proper drive and get a couple of better photos in daylight
Couple of jobs to sort - i need to get the navtrak activated but got no real paperwork for it so might involve a trip to HR Owen or Joe Macari to figure that out, and I believe the car was last sold in Feb by JCT s should have about 16 months Ferrari warranty on it - but the previous owner and dealer haven’t supplied any paperwork so hoping it’s on the Ferrari network or can get the paperwork from JCT once it’s registered.
Was last serviced in November, but has been n a collection so not driven, so not decided if I should do the service on its birthday or when the MOT is due in Feb since it likely won’t be used much over depths of winter and might be better to get a fresh service before spring.
BarryP said:
You need to join the Drivers Union supercar club also, free to join and a very active Ferrari group within the club.
I just registered but it seems like a ghost town. There are a total of 9 threads on the Ferrari forum, last post two weeks ago. Am I looking in the wrong place?First drive in my car this evening, managed to get as far as embankment before setting off a speed camera. Roof down, race model and under a bridge, worth the points tbh. Wouldn’t mind but 26-27mph in a 20 mph zone on embankment just takes the piss.
Love the car to bits. Thought it had a shocking rattle but then I realised it was the seatbelt against the carbon seat
Interesting experience driving a grigio car vs a Rosso one - the Rosso caused a stir wherever it went, grigio seems to draw less attention. Probably a good thing.
Love the carbon seats, super comfortable, and roof down is just about the best thing ever.
Love the car to bits. Thought it had a shocking rattle but then I realised it was the seatbelt against the carbon seat
Interesting experience driving a grigio car vs a Rosso one - the Rosso caused a stir wherever it went, grigio seems to draw less attention. Probably a good thing.
Love the carbon seats, super comfortable, and roof down is just about the best thing ever.
MisterBigglesworth said:
managed to get as far as embankment before setting off a speed camera.
Oh no, that didn't take long !! I guess one of the advantages of living out in the sticks is I know my "spirited driving" route that is feds-free.Great that you got out in it though. Crappy weather tomorrow, but Sunday is looking good.
andyr said:
MisterBigglesworth said:
managed to get as far as embankment before setting off a speed camera.
Oh no, that didn't take long !! I guess one of the advantages of living out in the sticks is I know my "spirited driving" route that is feds-free.Great that you got out in it though. Crappy weather tomorrow, but Sunday is looking good.
I laughed when it happened as getting points for 26mph in Ferrari is just ridiculous, I could go faster on a pedal bike.
Crappy weather indeed so will be getting all my hires done today and hopefully get out on some decent NSL roads tommorrow.
Will be staying out of sadiqs tax collection fiefdom in future. .
MisterBigglesworth said:
andyr said:
MisterBigglesworth said:
managed to get as far as embankment before setting off a speed camera.
Oh no, that didn't take long !! I guess one of the advantages of living out in the sticks is I know my "spirited driving" route that is feds-free.Great that you got out in it though. Crappy weather tomorrow, but Sunday is looking good.
I laughed when it happened as getting points for 26mph in Ferrari is just ridiculous, I could go faster on a pedal bike.
Crappy weather indeed so will be getting all my hires done today and hopefully get out on some decent NSL roads tommorrow.
Will be staying out of sadiqs tax collection fiefdom in future. .
I do find it seems to slip along largely unnoticed which suits me down to the ground.
MisterBigglesworth said:
No points for more than a decade so hopefully if a NIP is issued i’m getting a speed awareness course, will also invest in a GPS speed camera detector
I laughed when it happened as getting points for 26mph in Ferrari is just ridiculous, I could go faster on a pedal bike.
Crappy weather indeed so will be getting all my hires done today and hopefully get out on some decent NSL roads tommorrow.
Will be staying out of sadiqs tax collection fiefdom in future. .
You’re not wrong - it’s very easy for me to end up breaking the speed limit on a push bike in London! It’s hard to accept these 20 limits on main roads in London.I laughed when it happened as getting points for 26mph in Ferrari is just ridiculous, I could go faster on a pedal bike.
Crappy weather indeed so will be getting all my hires done today and hopefully get out on some decent NSL roads tommorrow.
Will be staying out of sadiqs tax collection fiefdom in future. .
A friend sent this blog post on F8/488/458: http://www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/f8/f8_handover....
He seems a bit critical of the 458’s damping here and some other stuff. Anyone who has driven all 3 comment? I have only tried the 488 spider on track which drove like a big Boxster (in a good way). A friend drove an F8 spider in Switzerland and said it was great but just too fast for the road.
Would have thought a 458 with bumpy road mode on would be quite smooth.
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