Are 458 prices on the way up?

[Durzel]

rich12 said:

2013 I think he bought it but still, I agree.

Whoops yes, you're right

[LIVENT]

I must be the only person who does not understand the N/A obsession.

If I was looking for value for money I would have bought a Skoda not a supercar.

If your looking for an investment buy a house not a car.

As for McLaren Vs Ferrari it's a personal choice, I went for a Ferrari, they are all great cars, if we were all the same life would be very boring.

[slarti650]

McLarens are foe the rich. Everybody else can get suckered into Ferrari ownership and worry less about depreciation and running costs. At the same time they can happily not drive it because they're scared of racking up miles.

I had a 12c, now a 650. A 458 or 488 would be a step backwards in car terms so I won't do it. I have a 355 manual GTS foe Ferrari fun - if you're gonna do yesterdays motoring then do it properly.

At some point the Indy network will get wider for McLaren and the nervously poor hoards of Ferrari owners can follow a new crowd.

[RamboLambo]

slarti650 said:

McLarens are foe the rich. Everybody else can get suckered into Ferrari ownership and worry less about depreciation and running costs. At the same time they can happily not drive it because they're scared of racking up miles.

I had a 12c, now a 650. A 458 or 488 would be a step backwards in car terms so I won't do it. I have a 355 manual GTS foe Ferrari fun - if you're gonna do yesterdays motoring then do it properly.

At some point the Indy network will get wider for McLaren and the nervously poor hoards of Ferrari owners can follow a new crowd.

Completely agree with you. McLaren products are superior IMHO especially now the Naturally Aspirated advantage has gone.
Like you I have a Ferrari F355 GTS manual with capristo, 650S spider and Huracan Performante.
3 completely different cars but the best 3 of their generations IMHO

[slarti650]

I’m certain these conversations didn’t exist before finance for super cars came along. Now every man and his dog can take out overly expensive finance with crazy balloons that put a huge mill stone around their neck. What follows is endless drivel about depreciation, future values etc. Why? Because folks that really shouldn’t be in a supercar are deluding themselves into believing they can actually afford them.

I’m not saying every Ferrari driver is an over stretched financial disaster in the making, but the brand sure does attract them.

[Durzel]

Can they? The monthly payments would still be considerable regardless of the interest rate and balloon payments. "Every man and his dog" won't meet the finance criteria.

Also being so loaded that you can buy the cars outright doesn't necessarily mean they're an enthusiast or "worthy" to drive the car, if that's what you're intimating.

I would assume the vast majority of these cars are financed (with the same low interest rates for enthusiast and "fair weather supercar owner") simply because the capital works better elsewhere.

[slarti650]

Apologies for being unclear. Kinda went off on one. Finance isn't a problem if used properly. Whilst my cars are currently owned outright I wouldn't be bothered about borrowing to find a purchase if I needed my cash elsewhere. My point is that cheap and easy finance casts the net wider. IF you pit a 50% balloon on a 100k car then you're only covering payments on 50k which makes it far more attractive to more people. Trouble then is they haven't taken a longer term view and suddenly start worrying a out negative equity and whether they'll be able to get out of the plan. Also a used 100k car still costs the same to run as when it was new so I do believe there are a lot of people that are in supercars when they should be working towards being able to own one without all the extra pressure (which negates the excitement)

[Durzel]

slarti650 said:

Apologies for being unclear. Kinda went off on one. Finance isn't a problem if used properly. Whilst my cars are currently owned outright I wouldn't be bothered about borrowing to find a purchase if I needed my cash elsewhere. My point is that cheap and easy finance casts the net wider. IF you pit a 50% balloon on a 100k car then you're only covering payments on 50k which makes it far more attractive to more people. Trouble then is they haven't taken a longer term view and suddenly start worrying a out negative equity and whether they'll be able to get out of the plan. Also a used 100k car still costs the same to run as when it was new so I do believe there are a lot of people that are in supercars when they should be working towards being able to own one without all the extra pressure (which negates the excitement)

I see your point, and agree.

These are definitely not cars one should overextend themselves to buy. I've said it before and you touched on it there but I can't think of anything worse than owning something like this and being paralysed by thoughts about something going wrong and not being able to afford it, how quickly you'd be able to offload it if you had to, "how much you can afford to lose" when you sell up, or even just how much each mile is costing in depreciation and actual costs. It would in my opinion be a miserable experience having something that should bring you pure joy and instead it being like some kind of anchor around your neck.

That said, the values on things like this have gone pretty bonkers in recent years so I can understand why people are more inquisitive about what the future might hold. It just needs to be measured against making peace internally with losing money on them (both potentially in market movements and guaranteed in dealer buy/sell spread). Any appreciation in value is then a nice cherry on the cake.

[TB303]

I’ve only been monitoring spiders but they seem to be slightly stagnating or maybe ever so slightly falling. A few price reductions here and there. Not a lot seems to be shifting right now, but not sure that’s exclusive to 458s.

The odd private / low spec / high miles car around the 150 mark seems to be selling occasionally, but the good spec 170k plus not.

Can’t see them dropping much personally.

[Roof down]

I really think they are overpriced for many reasons most of which are fairly obvious, Mike

[RSD 25]

I was at a Ferrari meet yesterday & a man who owns both a 458 Italia & a 488 GTB (as well as a Speciale Aperta & a few other Ferrari's) made this interesting prediction.

He said that 458's will some day, be worth MORE then 488's! And he said that the trade in on his 488 GTB is around the same/less then he paid for it (includes options) & want to keep his 458 Italia forever.

Interesting.

[willy wombat]

I've been on my travels and met a man at the French GP who had owned a 458 Berlinetta, two 458 Spiders (consecutively, not both at once) and now owns a 488 Spider which he is thinking of getting rid off to go back to a 458 Spider because he preferred them. I'm not sure that that tells you anything, however.

[_Leg_]

I'm on week 3 of a 5 week tour of Europe which started with 2 weeks in my 458 Spider round Austria with the lads, a quick 2 day nip home to swap to my F12 and do some laundry, back into Europe, picked my wife up from Bergamo airport and I'm half way down Italy at the moment with 2 weeks more in Italy to go before heading home.

The 458 and the F12 are just epic, epic things.

I'm doing my 2nd Lotus club euro trip of the year in September too. Completely different dynamic. All superb.

Cant imagine sitting at home when I'm old smelling of piss saying, 'You remember that year when we saved a few quid by not using the cars'. F*ck that. Spoleto for the Festival tomorrow. Amalfi this weekend for 5 days, Florence, Brescia. And for a brucey bonus, England won. Yay!

Auto Technic Museum on the way through Germany


Somewhere in Switzerland


Alfa Museum - just look at that Disco Volante, I sat staring at it for half an hour when I was there.



Austria

[dalenorth]

Wow, what an awesome trip. I did a tour of Europe in the 458 in May but only had 4 days, better planning next year me thinks!

[willy wombat]

Leg - I can only agree with you. My 458 Spider now has 2,000 more miles on it than it did 2 weeks ago but the fun we had more than compensates for any slight loss of value. As they say, "you can't take it with you".

[Roof down]

_Leg_ said:

I'm on week 3 of a 5 week tour of Europe which started with 2 weeks in my 458 Spider round Austria with the lads, a quick 2 day nip home to swap to my F12 and do some laundry, back into Europe, picked my wife up from Bergamo airport and I'm half way down Italy at the moment with 2 weeks more in Italy to go before heading home.

The 458 and the F12 are just epic, epic things.

I'm doing my 2nd Lotus club euro trip of the year in September too. Completely different dynamic. All superb.

Cant imagine sitting at home when I'm old smelling of piss saying, 'You remember that year when we saved a few quid by not using the cars'. F*ck that. Spoleto for the Festival tomorrow. Amalfi this weekend for 5 days, Florence, Brescia. And for a brucey bonus, England won. Yay!

Auto Technic Museum on the way through Germany


Somewhere in Switzerland


Alfa Museum - just look at that Disco Volante, I sat staring at it for half an hour when I was there.



Austria

Brilliant! Take good care, when I smell of piss I don’t want to many regrets either, use em I say, no pockets in shrouds, Mike

[RamboLambo]

_Leg_ said:

I'm on week 3 of a 5 week tour of Europe which started with 2 weeks in my 458 Spider round Austria with the lads, a quick 2 day nip home to swap to my F12 and do some laundry, back into Europe, picked my wife up from Bergamo airport and I'm half way down Italy at the moment with 2 weeks more in Italy to go before heading home.

The 458 and the F12 are just epic, epic things.

I'm doing my 2nd Lotus club euro trip of the year in September too. Completely different dynamic. All superb.

Cant imagine sitting at home when I'm old smelling of piss saying, 'You remember that year when we saved a few quid by not using the cars'. F*ck that. Spoleto for the Festival tomorrow. Amalfi this weekend for 5 days, Florence, Brescia. And for a brucey bonus, England won. Yay!

Auto Technic Museum on the way through Germany


Somewhere in Switzerland


Alfa Museum - just look at that Disco Volante, I sat staring at it for half an hour when I was there.



Austria

Fair play. I wish more owners had the same attitude rather than purely treat them as some sort of status symbol or investment to look at in the garage.
Far too many low mileage Ferraris around ??

[Durzel]

This isn't the "make me feel more gutted for selling mine" thread, thanks

[_Leg_]

RamboLambo said:

Fair play. I wish more owners had the same attitude rather than purely treat them as some sort of status symbol or investment to look at in the garage.
Far too many low mileage Ferraris around ??

Surely we buy supercars (or hot hatches, classics, vintage, sports cars etc) because of how they make us feel and surely driving them is the best feeling they offer?

If not, collect 1/18th scale models. Just as pretty to look at, much less cost to buy and own. Just sit very, very close to them and you'll barely be able to notice the scale difference. ;-)

Italian roads down the west coast are f*cking awful btw. I've been spoilt with Lombardy (the lakes), Italian Alps and the Mille Miglia route which obviously takes all their budget. The surfaces on most of the west coast roads are like the surface of the moon.

Austria, on the other hand, has superb roads throughout based on the route we took in June. Good job cos the Spider ain't as well dampened as the F12.

Btw Rambo, fancy coming on the lads road trip next year? You might struggle with the Yorkshire accents but you would be welcome.

[MDL111]

Plenty of Ferraris being driven very hard at the Hockenheimring last weekend - double digit numbers each of Speciales and Scuds on track (plus a lot of 488s).. even a couple of TDFs were out there and a 50s race car plus a 250 GTO rep

Babying them maybe a UK disease then - surprising given that it is the home of Motorsport

Edit: to add to the topic - it feels to me that 458 Challenge asking prices have gone up by c. 20k over the last c. 12 months