Change to News, Politics & Economics posting rights

[anonymous-user]

6pi said:

ambuletz said:

I think being a member for at least 1 year should be sufficient. Plenty of lurkers who have been here years but rarely or sometimes never posted. The long time lurkers who do end up posting turn out to be quite nice/normal people. It's the nasty keyboard warriors who rack up hundreds of posts in a week that are the issue.

Edited by ambuletz on Wednesday 20th April 08:17

This.

What kind of troll would register today with a target of coming back in one year ? I think none, this kind of people want to flood a thread immediately.

Anyway, with my current pace, I'll be back in 90 years to comment in the WW3 thread...

I think the problem with 1 year as the sole criterion is that some of the more determined disrupters set up “sleeper” accounts. I (sort of - it’s admittedly a bit vague now) recall that during the height of covid lockdown when the covid 19 threads were dominating NPE, there were a lot of very vocal posters getting the boot and a lot of new posters appearing from nowhere carpet bombing NPE covid threads. Some of the new posters would be quite old user accounts with maybe a handful of historic posts whose posting history showed that they suddenly went from next-to-no posts to a stackload of NPE posts in the blink of an eye.

Now I may have misread the situation, but my guess is that some of the more determined posters set up a handful of user accounts that they keep in reserve for when they need to get back in quickly. If so, imposing a requirement that means a member has to show a sort of ‘bona fides’ by posting outside NPE in the arguably less contentious areas of PH is a good thing.

As someone else upthread mentioned though, as this is a bit like trying to stem the flow of water, there is a risk that the more determined disrupters will move themselves to another sub-forum such as the Lounge and use that as an alt-NPE.

[carinatauk]

B'stard Child said:

carinatauk said:

1000 posts in a motoring forum is a lot.

I realise that some post a lot in the NP&E forum but I hardly post, unless I have a question or comment, but do take interest in a lot that is posted. It seems that I will be one of those unable to post in NP&E even though I have been a registered member for eons.

carinatauk - 1,308 posts - 228 months

Yep, originally was here for the TVR threads. Tend to read rather than respond. NP&E is a bag full of weird and worrying fruitcakes. Unless there is a reason to post then I don't, a bit like my FB I hardly ever post but it's useful for information at times.

[lizardbrain]

Plymo said:

Surely those with very high post counts (of constant sniping and pile-ons, etc) are the problem, rather than those who mostly read and only contribute when they have something to add to the discussion - and are quite capable of scrolling past the name-calling and other stupidity.

Just a requirement of 6 months would be enough to deter most spam and returned banned members...

(I know this isn't adding much, but it gets my post count up )

I think there are two separate issues being discussed.

1. Sock puppet accounts where people create new accounts just to derail threads and cause disruption.

2. General toxicity that is less disruptive but more normalised.

The changes seem squarely aimed at 1.

It will be an interesting experiment either way to see how the changes impact number 2. I’ve no idea. But if I had to guess, there will be no change and possibly even it might get worse.

Some people are commenting that such high post count posters will also tread more carefully. But they haven’t been banned in 10 years, so not clear why their behaviour would change now?

[Byker28i]

rigga said:

Good, something had to be done regarding the continued returning banned members.

Its a toxic environment at times, and it was a farce, when someone rightly got banned only to join under another username, and continue the bile. Often several easily identifiable time's.

Regarding the post count, yes 1000 seems a high figure, but its either that or 12 months from date of joining, so won't hamper anyone for ever, and there had to be some cut of point.

Its been a long time coming, the volume of threads now no longer needing numbering has helped, as often those taking a break from a thread had to wait till the next volume to join back in, these further steps hopefully will further weed out those that do not play nicely.

Also it including existing members is a bonus, start as you mean to go on.

Well said - returned bannees and multiple accounts have been unregulated by PH for some time now.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Supercilious Sid said:

ARRSE has the very welcome feature of blocking users who you decide are acting like cocks. That also extends to blocking their posts, when quoted by other users.

Bear in mind that here on the Gassing Station there is no link between a post and a reply. A reply quoting a post is just text that you are free to edit as you wish. So there is no mechanism to block quoted replies nor can there be without a massive rewrite of the code.

I'll demonstrate:

Supercilious Sid said:

Hi, I'm Supercilious Sid and CC can make me say whatever she wants just by typing it. I never said this and CC is not quoting me even though it looks like she is.

[The Rotrex Kid]

lizardbrain said:

.

Some people are commenting that such high post count posters will also tread more carefully. But they haven’t been banned in 10 years, so not clear why their behaviour would change now?

To answer that from my perspective.

1. Longer volumes mean thread bans are more effective. No longer can people just wait for a new volume and get back to being an ass (Multiple trump thread volumes for example)

2. Being banned now has more weight. A wait time of 12m/1000 posts means no more VPN, throwaway email and and back to NP&E.

3. Mods are only as good as the reports we get. Too often we get ‘while haven’t the mods done anything/think of the children’ when people haven’t reported any bad behaviour. If you see something objectionable, report it and it will be looked at.

[Byker28i]

Ouroboros said:

Let's be honest you don't miss much. For example Trump thread, trump is bad everyone who disagrees gets banned.
Biden thread, Biden is brilliant, same actions as trump.

I don't really care on both, but threads end up just being ruled by a few who enforce the narrative, so ends up with little actual debate just constantly same message repeated over and over. Better just to steer clear of NPE anyway, the majority of the poster in there don't care about cars.

LOL, only people banned from those threads are those that don't play nicely and break the PH rules, usually from getting insulting and personal. Its only claims from those that are banned that it's simply because of disagreement.

[Byker28i]

carinatauk said:

B'stard Child said:

carinatauk said:

1000 posts in a motoring forum is a lot.

I realise that some post a lot in the NP&E forum but I hardly post, unless I have a question or comment, but do take interest in a lot that is posted. It seems that I will be one of those unable to post in NP&E even though I have been a registered member for eons.

carinatauk - 1,308 posts - 228 months

Yep, originally was here for the TVR threads. Tend to read rather than respond. NP&E is a bag full of weird and worrying fruitcakes. Unless there is a reason to post then I don't, a bit like my FB I hardly ever post but it's useful for information at times.

If we ignore those trolling for fun, there's actually people with some serious expertise that post in other threads, Speed, plod and the law, the Animal threads etc. In NP&E the ukraine thread has some people with good insight on both the politics and weapons systems being used.
Thats before we get to car owners and the advice on specific models etc.
You just sometimes have to wade through the sludge, hopefully this will stop a lot of it.

[anonymous-user]

The NPandE is just a load of people’s thoughts and opinions about politics and the news, it’s always going to be the spiciest part of the site.

If people genuinely get upset by it or by reading others opinions, then just don’t read it. If there’s posts or posters you think are breaking the rules then report them.

Perhaps some of the posters complaining about the way they’ve been treated are actually a bit toxic themselves and are receiving what ted used to call PHs “self moderation” and don’t like it?. . . or you could instead imagine you’re a victim of WhatsApp groups plotting against you, or mod bias or whatever.

I don’t read or post on threads or forums I don’t like or enjoy. PHs has all kinds of forums, just read the ones you enjoy. If you don’t post much then tbh you’re not actually contributing to the forum in the first place.

Moderators constantly ban offenders from the site and now we have a new system for discouraging people setting up new accounts just to argue, let’s support them rather than complaining about it.

The answer is obviously join in more if you want to use the NPandE forum and if you’re not posting and also not enjoying reading that part of PHs then why on earth keeping reading it?

If you do like reading the NPandE and don't post much, presumably you can still read it?

It’s pretty clear what the people who run the forum are trying to do here. Seems like a good idea to me.

[deebs]

One would imagine there is some data behind the requirements.

-how many active accounts are there (logged in within the last whatever months) = x
-how many active accounts are > 12 months = y
-of Y how many have > 1,000 posts = z
-of z what percentage is that of overall users = answer

So long as "answer" is judged to be a high enough % of the overall active accounts it won't matter to the decision that there are some long term users who don't meet the criteria caught up as collateral damage.

They aren't aiming for a perfect solution or situation, just a better one than they have now.

[mattb46]

Im really pissed off at this new rule. How is 1000 posts a measure of someones ability/tendency to post sensibly? I have been really affected by the war in Ukraine and that thread has been my daily go to. I have the odd question/comment but mostly I like to read others thoughts. Its been a brilliant thread with lots of fascinating takes on the war from different perspectives with almost no sniping (that Im aware of). I just dont get PH's decision. My visits to PH are going to dramatically reduce now that I no longer will be able to contribute/ask questions etc

[lizardbrain]

The Rotrex Kid said:

To answer that from my perspective.

1. Longer volumes mean thread bans are more effective. No longer can people just wait for a new volume and get back to being an ass (Multiple trump thread volumes for example)

2. Being banned now has more weight. A wait time of 12m/1000 posts means no more VPN, throwaway email and and back to NP&E.

3. Mods are only as good as the reports we get. Too often we get ‘while haven’t the mods done anything/think of the children’ when people haven’t reported any bad behaviour. If you see something objectionable, report it and it will be looked at.

You are a mod? You are an active poster in many of the NPE thread I post in. Do you agree new accounts < 6 months are quite rare?

[Supercilious Sid]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Supercilious Sid said:

ARRSE has the very welcome feature of blocking users who you decide are acting like cocks. That also extends to blocking their posts, when quoted by other users.

Bear in mind that here on the Gassing Station there is no link between a post and a reply. A reply quoting a post is just text that you are free to edit as you wish.

I'll demonstrate:

Supercilious Sid said:

Hi, I'm Supercilious Sid and CC can make me say whatever she wants just by typing it. I never said this and CC is not quoting me even though it looks like she is.

I agree that is possible and imperfect. But as this is the Website Feedback forum good ideas from other areas can be put forward for possible future incorporation.

[anonymous-user]

mattb46 said:

Im really pissed off at this new rule. How is 1000 posts a measure of someones ability/tendency to post sensibly? I have been really affected by the war in Ukraine and that thread has been my daily go to. I have the odd question/comment but mostly I like to read others thoughts. Its been a brilliant thread with lots of fascinating takes on the war from different perspectives with almost no sniping (that Im aware of). I just dont get PH's decision. My visits to PH are going to dramatically reduce now that I no longer will be able to contribute/ask questions etc

But you can still do what you “do mostly” which is read the thread. It will still be a brilliant read. I’m fact it (and other threads) will be never better as it’s harder for banned posters to rejoin and ruin it.

If you want to be able to post in it more then just join in more outside the NPandE.

PHs relies on people joining in not people just reading it. That’s what makes a thriving community, full of threads you might like reading.

[g4ry13]

Might this policy encourage people to spam on the forum in an effort to bump their post count and gain access to NP&E?

Whilst PistonHeads is not primarily a political forum, neither is it watches, TV, Football, video games, health matters etc. Why draw the line there?

[anonymous-user]

mattb46 said:

Im really pissed off at this new rule. How is 1000 posts a measure of someones ability/tendency to post sensibly? I have been really affected by the war in Ukraine and that thread has been my daily go to. I have the odd question/comment but mostly I like to read others thoughts. Its been a brilliant thread with lots of fascinating takes on the war from different perspectives with almost no sniping (that Im aware of). I just dont get PH's decision. My visits to PH are going to dramatically reduce now that I no longer will be able to contribute/ask questions etc

Sums up my feelings exactly.
I suppose I could post tons of trolling drivel in other topics to get up to the magic 1,000 figure, but why? and why just the News, Politics and Economics posts? Plenty of name calling and angry people in other topics.
At my current rate of posting, it will take me about ten years to qualify. As I am 82, I don't think I will make it!

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 20th April 10:59

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 20th April 11:13

[Byker28i]

lizardbrain said:

You are a mod? You are an active poster in many of the NPE thread I post in. Do you agree new accounts < 6 months are quite rare?

I can only speak from some of the threads I've been involved in, is that we've seen multiple accounts from some posters that were banned, all created at the same time and left to age before being used.
But I'll agree it's the same few people and everyone has to suffer because of it.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

El stovey said:

The NPandE is just a load of people’s thoughts and opinions about politics and the news, it’s always going to be the spiciest part of the site.

If people genuinely get upset by it or by reading others opinions, then just don’t read it. If there’s posts or posters you think are breaking the rules then report them.

Really????

What a load of entitled tosh from someone who has clearly never been the subject of any "-ist" abuse in their life.

[Olivera]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That prolific poster should have been banned years ago for grossly and deliberately misstating other's views, often in an offensive manner. And yes there are a number of other prolific posters that always weigh in with very similar views at almost exactly the same time. Sock-puppets anyone?

[Clockwork Cupcake]

g4ry13 said:

Might this policy encourage people to spam on the forum in an effort to bump their post count and gain access to NP&E?

Oh, without a doubt.

But clearly *something* had to be done. And this is as good a place to start as any.

I'm sure that there is scope for tweakage and that the rules will be refined.