Mclaren MP4

[LongLiveTazio]

jackal said:

Have you driven one ?


What performance car gets even remotely close in terms of ride comfort, latitude existent in the suspension settings and hence overall breadth of functionality ?

At the one end its more supple and compliant than a Lotus Evora (which is damm good going). At the other end, posts a 1.16 at Dunsfold. This is no easy achievement IMO.

The original question was about how advanced it is, not how good a car it is. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[jackal]

I think you will herewith discover, that from henceforth, id quod plerumque accidit, that the very reasons why it excels in these here very areas of which I pontificate, is, ipso facto, collectively exhaustively, because of said supposed state of advancement of said motor vehicle, in extenso, veni vidi vici.

[GRBF430F1]

I have driven a 458 and was a little underwhelmed myself with it not really living up to the hype which really surprised me. I haven't driven a 12C but on paper and objectively it seems to be faster and more technologically advanced than the Ferrari. Whether that means its better I may find out later this week when I hope to get my first go in the McLaren

The McLaren does seem to be incredible value for money at the moment and at least £15k more favourable than an equivalent 458. Not sure whether future values will firm up or continue to tumble especially as they ramp up production and bring out a new entry level car

Is it a good time to buy a MP4 12C ?

[s2000db]

I think that Porsche have moved the game on, as indeed every sportscar manufacturer will do as they release new models in 2-3 yrs time.

For example the 991 GT3 or TurboS are now more than a match for the Mac depending on what track you'd like to compare them against ??

[GALLARDOGUY]

LongLiveTazio said:

The only thing from that list they invented was the airbag. Mercedes are very good at making other people's things better and/or marketing them well to make people think they were the first.

As for the McLaren, Dallara have been able to mass produce carbon tubs for years, hence the X-Bow developed with KTM. In one way it's unadventurous as the engine isn't a stressed member. And AFAIK the work was done with a specialist company, not entirely in-house?

The suspension is innovative but has been seen before (i.e. Kinetic). The body is fibreglass. The engine is a monster but more sophisticated than other turbo units? Not really, the GT-R's is amazing, has the racing provenance and it's available for half the price. Gearbox, brakes? Existing tech.

It's very impressive when all put together in one car with such vision but there is nothing truly new and in fact outsourcing is the key way to get costs down. Ferrari have shown with the 458 that materials alone aren't the be-all and end-all...

The 12C's body is fibreglass?

Really?

[bertie]

GALLARDOGUY said:

The 12C's body is fibreglass?

Really?

Yes.

[GRBF430F1]

s2000db said:

I think that Porsche have moved the game on, as indeed every sportscar manufacturer will do as they release new models in 2-3 yrs time.

For example the 991 GT3 or TurboS are now more than a match for the Mac depending on what track you'd like to compare them against ??

I have a 991 GT3 on order because its incredible value for money compared with the performance but its not what I call a WOW car.

Its a porsche and they are fairly common place. Ok it's at the top of the range but in terms of brand and image its not there with, Lambo, Ferrari and McLaren

Eberyone has a double take if you are in a WOW car, no one blinks an eyelid whatever Porsche you have.

In a way I think its better to be at the bottom of a higher brand than at the top of a lower one

[hornbaek]

I think the main problem for McLaren is that it is not a brand at the same level as Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo etc. It might be it for the motor sport enthusiast but those are not (always) the people who make up most of the buyers of supercars.

[isaldiri]

GALLARDOGUY said:

The 12C's body is fibreglass?

Really?

Bonnet and roof apart which are aluminium, yes body panels are grp.

[s2000db]

GRBF430F1 said:

s2000db said:

I think that Porsche have moved the game on, as indeed every sportscar manufacturer will do as they release new models in 2-3 yrs time.

For example the 991 GT3 or TurboS are now more than a match for the Mac depending on what track you'd like to compare them against ??

I have a 991 GT3 on order because its incredible value for money compared with the performance but its not what I call a WOW car.

Its a porsche and they are fairly common place. Ok it's at the top of the range but in terms of brand and image its not there with, Lambo, Ferrari and McLaren

Eberyone has a double take if you are in a WOW car, no one blinks an eyelid whatever Porsche you have.

In a way I think its better to be at the bottom of a higher brand than at the top of a lower one

That's the way I like it, I don't do loud exhausts either, no need for the police to see and hear you coming from miles off lol...

[av185]

Having spent 4 days with a 458 Italia and half a day with a Mclaren my choice would be the 458, no contest.

I found the Macca strangely uninvolving, a feeling not unlike the emotional detachment of the 997 turbo s. Quick cars, but not extensions of ones inner self......

Normally aspirated definitely for me. Hope the new 991 GT3 delivers....

[GRBF430F1]

hornbaek said:

I think the main problem for McLaren is that it is not a brand at the same level as Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo etc. It might be it for the motor sport enthusiast but those are not (always) the people who make up most of the buyers of supercars.

McLaren might not have the history or pedigree as Porsche but it is a supercar.

Personally I classify a 911 as a sportscar not a supercar. In a way a Mc Laren is more exclusive than a ferrari or lambo

[GALLARDOGUY]

isaldiri said:

GALLARDOGUY said:

The 12C's body is fibreglass?

Really?

Bonnet and roof apart which are aluminium, yes body panels are grp.

Makes no odds to me really. Mclaren's fit and finish is beyond reproach and that's more important.

I'm looking at getting a spider sometime in the future or if I make sacrifices elsewhere, an Aventador roadster.

Will see if the drive and sense of occasion merit the extra outlay.

[LukeyLikey]

APOLO1 said:

As per the norm...you are out of the loop....no offence...

As opposed to loop the loop? (No offence either)

[Younez]

s2000db said:

I think that Porsche have moved the game on, as indeed every sportscar manufacturer will do as they release new models in 2-3 yrs time.

For example the 991 GT3 or TurboS are now more than a match for the Mac depending on what track you'd like to compare them against ??

McLaren bought Porsches from RSJ when doing R&D for the MP4.

[SonnyM]

Younez said:

s2000db said:

I think that Porsche have moved the game on, as indeed every sportscar manufacturer will do as they release new models in 2-3 yrs time.

For example the 991 GT3 or TurboS are now more than a match for the Mac depending on what track you'd like to compare them against ??

McLaren bought Porsches from RSJ when doing R&D for the MP4.

And the Cayman was their favourite when I spoke with the engineers at Woking.

[TP321]

The only problem with the 12C is the residuals - 2011 cars are now £130k from a £190k+ list 2 years ago. What i find amazing is that people still bought the Spyder this year at list when it was plainly obvious that the Coupe wasn't holding up (and they paid an extra £20k for the spyder..). I don't know what Mclarens response to this has been (if any), but it doesn't seem to be working. Maybe they have written off the 12C as a lesson learnt (just like the current F1 car) and they are just concentrating on the other new models. Shame.

[GRBF430F1]

TP321 said:

The only problem with the 12C is the residuals - 2011 cars are now £130k from a £190k+ list 2 years ago. What i find amazing is that people still bought the Spyder this year at list when it was plainly obvious that the Coupe wasn't holding up (and they paid an extra £20k for the spyder..). I don't know what Mclarens response to this has been (if any), but it doesn't seem to be working. Maybe they have written off the 12C as a lesson learnt (just like the current F1 car) and they are just concentrating on the other new models. Shame.

I think early cars suffered because of some of the reviews and software issues.

McLaren responded with the free upgrade programme which really has to be seen as a positive. Listening and responding to their customers at considerable expense is not something I have experienced with my 2 Ferraris.

The 2013 upgrades have significantly enhanced the MP4 12C so it may well be that they are a bargain now having taken the major hit on residuals

Is a 458 a better car, maybe, is it a £10k better car possibly not, is it worth £20k more definitely not IMHO and I'm a Ferrari fan through and through ( albeit one now tempted by adding a McLaren to the stable )

[kbf1981]

slf2012 said:

belleair302 said:

carbon fibre has been around for decades

While carbon fibre has been around for decades, it's use in every day cars has been prohibited by the costs involved.

There was an interesting programme about the McLaren on BBC2 last night (should be on the iplayer if you missed it), which stated that the carbon fibre monocoque for the McLaren F1 road car took 4000 hours to manufacture. The MP4/12C monocoque took 4 hours. This related to a cost saving of almost £500k.

In that respect, I believe the 12C is in some ways a game-changer - the first car with a mass-produced (mass-produce-able?) carbon fibre chassis?

Other than that, it also has the torque steer system, which was banned from their F1 cars, and which I don't quite understand!

Alfa 4C? Bigger game changer when it comes to carbon.

In terms of carbon.... is it such a game changer when some manufacturers are doing so well with metal (Porsche)? Is it like the 3G+ vs. 4G debate.

[andrew]

kbf1981 said:

Alfa 4C? Bigger game changer when it comes to carbon.

In terms of carbon.... is it such a game changer when some manufacturers are doing so well with metal (Porsche)? Is it like the 3G+ vs. 4G debate.

i've only driven a couple of cf chassis cars, and they've both had a certain, for want of a better word, numbness to them

is this because cf chassis don't readily transmit certain frequencies of noise and vibration ???