McLaren receives £300m.......
Discussion
As long the companys ongoing daily financial is unclear, the hesitation for buying a car from McLaren will persist.
To renew the interest for the brand, the company needs to make fewer cars, fewer models and get a service to endusers that is outstanding. And at prices that is in Porsche class.. Also, repair / service must be within days.
I think it might be a strong roadmap to reintroduce the 540 at 99k GBP. That would increase interest for the brand. Volume is the key to success now in bad times.
To renew the interest for the brand, the company needs to make fewer cars, fewer models and get a service to endusers that is outstanding. And at prices that is in Porsche class.. Also, repair / service must be within days.
I think it might be a strong roadmap to reintroduce the 540 at 99k GBP. That would increase interest for the brand. Volume is the key to success now in bad times.
MclaesLaren said:
Based on the fact that expensive cars are more difficult to sell in this covid-19 period.
A 540S with 3 year unlimited warranty and price at 99K would make me take a step towards the McLaren dealer.
The 540 is out of production isn't it?A 540S with 3 year unlimited warranty and price at 99K would make me take a step towards the McLaren dealer.
Edited by MclaesLaren on Sunday 17th May 09:58
Or they can stop messing around with List price £250k and then offering £40k discount ..just price it at £210k, undercut Ferrari and Lambo by a very large margin and stop trying as an upstart to compete with companies that have been going for 70 plus years on price and brand awareness.
They screwed it up at the start with the 12C, pricing it more than the 458 when taking into account the 7 year free servicing and 4 year warranty and standard ceramic brakes. Using an uncharismatic turbo engine, they pitched it at first at only just 30bhp more than the N/a ferrari engine (597 v 567 i seem to remember).
Why not just come into the market with a slightly cheaper price overall, and give the engine 650bhp and completely blow the 458 out of the water?? That was where they lost it - gave the Ferrari a lifeline to excel on its vocal engine, prettier looks, and more instant throttle response....and the rest is history unfortunately
They screwed it up at the start with the 12C, pricing it more than the 458 when taking into account the 7 year free servicing and 4 year warranty and standard ceramic brakes. Using an uncharismatic turbo engine, they pitched it at first at only just 30bhp more than the N/a ferrari engine (597 v 567 i seem to remember).
Why not just come into the market with a slightly cheaper price overall, and give the engine 650bhp and completely blow the 458 out of the water?? That was where they lost it - gave the Ferrari a lifeline to excel on its vocal engine, prettier looks, and more instant throttle response....and the rest is history unfortunately
TP321 said:
Or they can stop messing around with List price £250k and then offering £40k discount ..just price it at £210k, undercut Ferrari and Lambo by a very large margin and stop trying as an upstart to compete with companies that have been going for 70 plus years on price and brand awareness.
They screwed it up at the start with the 12C, pricing it more than the 458 when taking into account the 7 year free servicing and 4 year warranty and standard ceramic brakes. Using an uncharismatic turbo engine, they pitched it at first at only just 30bhp more than the N/a ferrari engine (597 v 567 i seem to remember).
Why not just come into the market with a slightly cheaper price overall, and give the engine 650bhp and completely blow the 458 out of the water?? That was where they lost it - gave the Ferrari a lifeline to excel on its vocal engine, prettier looks, and more instant throttle response....and the rest is history unfortunately
Driven by financiers rather than car people?They screwed it up at the start with the 12C, pricing it more than the 458 when taking into account the 7 year free servicing and 4 year warranty and standard ceramic brakes. Using an uncharismatic turbo engine, they pitched it at first at only just 30bhp more than the N/a ferrari engine (597 v 567 i seem to remember).
Why not just come into the market with a slightly cheaper price overall, and give the engine 650bhp and completely blow the 458 out of the water?? That was where they lost it - gave the Ferrari a lifeline to excel on its vocal engine, prettier looks, and more instant throttle response....and the rest is history unfortunately
TP321 said:
Or they can stop messing around with List price £250k and then offering £40k discount ..just price it at £210k, undercut Ferrari and Lambo by a very large margin and stop trying as an upstart to compete with companies that have been going for 70 plus years on price and brand awareness.
Yes everyone knows Mclaren takes the piss with their RRPs which are effectively meaningless the 720S e.g being a prime example this was never a £250k car new even reasonably loaded. The 18 18 5k miles well specced Collecting Cars 720S selling at c£130k with fees further underlines this point.
Lost count the number of e mails I receive regularly from Mc Manchester offering huge discounts ££ off their cars.
TP321 said:
Or they can stop messing around with List price £250k and then offering £40k discount ..just price it at £210k, undercut Ferrari and Lambo by a very large margin and stop trying as an upstart to compete with companies that have been going for 70 plus years on price and brand awareness.
They screwed it up at the start with the 12C, pricing it more than the 458 when taking into account the 7 year free servicing and 4 year warranty and standard ceramic brakes. Using an uncharismatic turbo engine, they pitched it at first at only just 30bhp more than the N/a ferrari engine (597 v 567 i seem to remember).
Why not just come into the market with a slightly cheaper price overall, and give the engine 650bhp and completely blow the 458 out of the water?? That was where they lost it - gave the Ferrari a lifeline to excel on its vocal engine, prettier looks, and more instant throttle response....and the rest is history unfortunately
It is likely that Ferrari offered the 7-year free (limited) servicing not out of the goodness of their hearts, but rather in reaction to the MP4-12C and succeeding McLaren models, which they knew would be strong competition. Indeed to this day Ferrari road car technology still lags behind what McLaren offered nearly a decade ago.They screwed it up at the start with the 12C, pricing it more than the 458 when taking into account the 7 year free servicing and 4 year warranty and standard ceramic brakes. Using an uncharismatic turbo engine, they pitched it at first at only just 30bhp more than the N/a ferrari engine (597 v 567 i seem to remember).
Why not just come into the market with a slightly cheaper price overall, and give the engine 650bhp and completely blow the 458 out of the water?? That was where they lost it - gave the Ferrari a lifeline to excel on its vocal engine, prettier looks, and more instant throttle response....and the rest is history unfortunately
As to your notion that the 458 had 'prettier looks', well...really? I mean, really?
The visual attractiveness of all Ferrari mid-engined cars has been going steadily downhill for 30 years. Ferrari have been scratching around desperately trying to design something that looks distinctive, modern and edgy. They have achieved those objectives, but at the regrettable cost of products that are also butt-ugly - some of the very ugliest cars in production, and, as a group, certainly the ugliest series of sports cars.
flemke said:
It is likely that Ferrari offered the 7-year free (limited) servicing not out of the goodness of their hearts, but rather in reaction to the MP4-12C and succeeding McLaren models, which they knew would be strong competition. Indeed to this day Ferrari road car technology still lags behind what McLaren offered nearly a decade ago.
As to your notion that the 458 had 'prettier looks', well...really? I mean, really?
The visual attractiveness of all Ferrari mid-engined cars has been going steadily downhill for 30 years. Ferrari have been scratching around desperately trying to design something that looks distinctive, modern and edgy. They have achieved those objectives, but at the regrettable cost of products that are also butt-ugly - some of the very ugliest cars in production, and, as a group, certainly the ugliest series of sports cars.
You are probably the only person in the whole universe who thinks the 458 is butt-ugly.! There are reasons why 458s still command high prices over twice as much as MP4-12Cs currently do..Looks,badge appeal,quality,sound,character etc etc.As to your notion that the 458 had 'prettier looks', well...really? I mean, really?
The visual attractiveness of all Ferrari mid-engined cars has been going steadily downhill for 30 years. Ferrari have been scratching around desperately trying to design something that looks distinctive, modern and edgy. They have achieved those objectives, but at the regrettable cost of products that are also butt-ugly - some of the very ugliest cars in production, and, as a group, certainly the ugliest series of sports cars.
Taffy66 said:
flemke said:
It is likely that Ferrari offered the 7-year free (limited) servicing not out of the goodness of their hearts, but rather in reaction to the MP4-12C and succeeding McLaren models, which they knew would be strong competition. Indeed to this day Ferrari road car technology still lags behind what McLaren offered nearly a decade ago.
As to your notion that the 458 had 'prettier looks', well...really? I mean, really?
The visual attractiveness of all Ferrari mid-engined cars has been going steadily downhill for 30 years. Ferrari have been scratching around desperately trying to design something that looks distinctive, modern and edgy. They have achieved those objectives, but at the regrettable cost of products that are also butt-ugly - some of the very ugliest cars in production, and, as a group, certainly the ugliest series of sports cars.
You are probably the only person in the whole universe who thinks the 458 is butt-ugly.! There are reasons why 458s still command high prices over twice as much as MP4-12Cs currently do..Looks,badge appeal,quality,sound,character etc etc.As to your notion that the 458 had 'prettier looks', well...really? I mean, really?
The visual attractiveness of all Ferrari mid-engined cars has been going steadily downhill for 30 years. Ferrari have been scratching around desperately trying to design something that looks distinctive, modern and edgy. They have achieved those objectives, but at the regrettable cost of products that are also butt-ugly - some of the very ugliest cars in production, and, as a group, certainly the ugliest series of sports cars.
It's a matter of opinion but in terms of aesthetics I think the 12C wins hands down, its a timeless design by Frank Stephenson and is faring extremely well against the over fussy 458 (IMHO). Badge - both are esteemed F1 constructors and I don't see any difference. If you mean appeal to certain Gucci loafered, gold Rolex wearing armchair sportsmen then yes they do go for the Ferrari's while a lot of pro racers drive McLarens. Sound, will give you that an NA will always sound better than a turbo but different era cars and that's where the world is taking us. Character, I don't see a winner both have it. etc. etc.????
I would much rather buy a 12C and spend my £30k left over on 6 years of warranty and have total peace of mind. I am glad McLaren prices are lower, it keeps them available for real drivers and not polishers. Buy a 458, keep in your garage, bring it out on bank holidays (sunny ones) and in the winter tell your mates you have a Ferrari and you might drive it to the pub one day. Or buy a 12C and drive it 10k miles a year and enjoy it, after all it can't lose much more money!
Bispal said:
I agree with Flemke, the current Ferrari range are visually unappealing and they have been going down hill, getting bigger & fatter for years. A 458 is not twice the price or a 12C. They are currently around £100k v £70k like for like (if you can find a 458 that's done the mileage of a McLaren).
It's a matter of opinion but in terms of aesthetics I think the 12C wins hands down, its a timeless design by Frank Stephenson and is faring extremely well against the over fussy 458 (IMHO). Badge - both are esteemed F1 constructors and I don't see any difference. If you mean appeal to certain Gucci loafered, gold Rolex wearing armchair sportsmen then yes they do go for the Ferrari's while a lot of pro racers drive McLarens. Sound, will give you that an NA will always sound better than a turbo but different era cars and that's where the world is taking us. Character, I don't see a winner both have it. etc. etc.????
I would much rather buy a 12C and spend my £30k left over on 6 years of warranty and have total peace of mind. I am glad McLaren prices are lower, it keeps them available for real drivers and not polishers. Buy a 458, keep in your garage, bring it out on bank holidays (sunny ones) and in the winter tell your mates you have a Ferrari and you might drive it to the pub one day. Or buy a 12C and drive it 10k miles a year and enjoy it, after all it can't lose much more money!
Design is subjective but I agree, the timeless design of the 12C has aged really well, and will continue to do so. A NA Ferrari V8 is always going to sound glorious but I wouldn't swap a 12C for a 458 despite the residual price difference!It's a matter of opinion but in terms of aesthetics I think the 12C wins hands down, its a timeless design by Frank Stephenson and is faring extremely well against the over fussy 458 (IMHO). Badge - both are esteemed F1 constructors and I don't see any difference. If you mean appeal to certain Gucci loafered, gold Rolex wearing armchair sportsmen then yes they do go for the Ferrari's while a lot of pro racers drive McLarens. Sound, will give you that an NA will always sound better than a turbo but different era cars and that's where the world is taking us. Character, I don't see a winner both have it. etc. etc.????
I would much rather buy a 12C and spend my £30k left over on 6 years of warranty and have total peace of mind. I am glad McLaren prices are lower, it keeps them available for real drivers and not polishers. Buy a 458, keep in your garage, bring it out on bank holidays (sunny ones) and in the winter tell your mates you have a Ferrari and you might drive it to the pub one day. Or buy a 12C and drive it 10k miles a year and enjoy it, after all it can't lose much more money!
Bispal said:
Buy a 458, keep in your garage, bring it out on bank holidays (sunny ones) and in the winter tell your mates you have a Ferrari and you might drive it to the pub one day. Or buy a 12C and drive it 10k miles a year and enjoy it, after all it can't lose much more money!
Not convinced your final sentence holds much water tbh.With 2 year old high spec 5k miles 720S performance hitting c£130ks and falling fast as are 570S this clearly puts pressure on the residuals of older cars such as the 12C.
av185 said:
Not convinced your final sentence holds much water tbh.
With 2 year old high spec 5k miles 720S performance hitting c£130ks and falling fast as are 570S this clearly puts pressure on the residuals of older cars such as the 12C.
I don’t believe that the 720s that sold at auction is in anywhere indicative of real prices.With 2 year old high spec 5k miles 720S performance hitting c£130ks and falling fast as are 570S this clearly puts pressure on the residuals of older cars such as the 12C.
That car was an urgent required sale not for monetary reasons but for space to accommodate a special incoming car.
The car was over £280,000 list although unlikely that was paid as 2 720s purchased at same time.
Only time will tell and markets are fickle but I don’t think we will see any 2018 720s with a high spec getting lower than that this summer
Rocketreid said:
av185 said:
Not convinced your final sentence holds much water tbh.
With 2 year old high spec 5k miles 720S performance hitting c£130ks and falling fast as are 570S this clearly puts pressure on the residuals of older cars such as the 12C.
I don’t believe that the 720s that sold at auction is in anywhere indicative of real prices.With 2 year old high spec 5k miles 720S performance hitting c£130ks and falling fast as are 570S this clearly puts pressure on the residuals of older cars such as the 12C.
That car was an urgent required sale not for monetary reasons but for space to accommodate a special incoming car.
The car was over £280,000 list although unlikely that was paid as 2 720s purchased at same time.
Only time will tell and markets are fickle but I don’t think we will see any 2018 720s with a high spec getting lower than that this summer
That car was nearer £250k list so it was approaching half price not that rrp means much as we all know.
This car was effectively clearly no one off as the similar priced but much newer 2019 low mileage 600LT auctioned simultaneously proves which perhaps of the two was even more of a bargain which now effectively sets the new bar for newish Mclaren residual pricing.
They are undoubtedly great value at this level.
Juno said:
Looks like they might have a route to further cash required
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/149439/mclaren-c...
That’s a proper “last chance” manouver....not good. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/149439/mclaren-c...
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