The El Chapo Mclaren F1 - Mr Clarkes F1 LM Harrods 06R
Discussion
flemke said:
It's not an LM, it's a GTR - a racing car.
The GTRs did not have odometers as standard, because racing cars do not record mileage but rather the issue is engine running hours. My guess is that at the time of making it road-legal many years ago, they put in a speedometer including odometer, but the new owner (Clark sold it a few years ago) has had that removed for reasons of originality or had the odometer disabled.
That does make sense. Was it sold recently? Last V5c issued few months ago for P440The GTRs did not have odometers as standard, because racing cars do not record mileage but rather the issue is engine running hours. My guess is that at the time of making it road-legal many years ago, they put in a speedometer including odometer, but the new owner (Clark sold it a few years ago) has had that removed for reasons of originality or had the odometer disabled.
HedgeyGedgey said:
flemke said:
It's not an LM, it's a GTR - a racing car.
The GTRs did not have odometers as standard, because racing cars do not record mileage but rather the issue is engine running hours. My guess is that at the time of making it road-legal many years ago, they put in a speedometer including odometer, but the new owner (Clark sold it a few years ago) has had that removed for reasons of originality or had the odometer disabled.
That does make sense. Was it sold recently? Last V5c issued few months ago for P440The GTRs did not have odometers as standard, because racing cars do not record mileage but rather the issue is engine running hours. My guess is that at the time of making it road-legal many years ago, they put in a speedometer including odometer, but the new owner (Clark sold it a few years ago) has had that removed for reasons of originality or had the odometer disabled.
tommobot said:
Can an original cars number plate be transferred to a different vehicle?
I was under the impression that only a personal plate could be swapped / moved from car to car..
Of course it can , unless the V5 states plate is non transferable.I was under the impression that only a personal plate could be swapped / moved from car to car..
One person's normal plate is anothers initials or something .
pincher said:
flemke said:
When a car is registered in UK for the first time, the plate # assigned relates to date of manufacture, regardless of date of first registration.
What? No it isn’t?HedgeyGedgey said:
I know its a useless source. Someone put on the book of faces that Mclaren acquired the vin tags in early 2005 in order to make the Harrods car road legal. The dates do stack up in a sense of when it was parked up and hidden in Mexico and when 06R became road legal
Someone is claiming that 'McLaren' re-used 039's VIN for the Harrods car? Sorry but not plausible. pincher said:
flemke said:
When a car is registered in UK for the first time, the plate # assigned relates to date of manufacture, regardless of date of first registration.
What? No it isn’t?flemke said:
Are you saying that, if in 2020 you import from Germany a car that left the factory in 2005 and has been registered in Germany since 2005, you can get a UK 20 reg plate for it?
That's not going to happen, but you can have a car built earlier registered as later if that was registered late originally. My car was registered in Japan almost a year after manufacture, so the model year was 1 year earlier than the registration plate.
When it was imported to the UK, the DVLA gave it a registration based on the original registration date, not when it left the factory production line.
To my knowledge it's the only pre facelift car with a facelift reg plate in the UK.
Interesting story to this car indeed and hopefully all will get unraveled in the course of time.
Just to add to the debate on year of registration, my Sunbeam Lotus along with approximately 150 others were all registered as Y reg cars in 1983 when infact production finished in 1981. States declared new at date of registration on the V5 but was infact 2 years old. Doesn't usually matter but now the cars are coming up to 40 years old ,date of manufacture will be used to get free road tax.
Just to add to the debate on year of registration, my Sunbeam Lotus along with approximately 150 others were all registered as Y reg cars in 1983 when infact production finished in 1981. States declared new at date of registration on the V5 but was infact 2 years old. Doesn't usually matter but now the cars are coming up to 40 years old ,date of manufacture will be used to get free road tax.
flemke said:
pincher said:
flemke said:
When a car is registered in UK for the first time, the plate # assigned relates to date of manufacture, regardless of date of first registration.
What? No it isn’t?A question of interpretation I guess
2172cc said:
Interesting story to this car indeed and hopefully all will get unraveled in the course of time.
Just to add to the debate on year of registration, my Sunbeam Lotus along with approximately 150 others were all registered as Y reg cars in 1983 when infact production finished in 1981. States declared new at date of registration on the V5 but was infact 2 years old. Doesn't usually matter but now the cars are coming up to 40 years old ,date of manufacture will be used to get free road tax.
New old stock then, plenty of that around most years. Some stuff sits in pounds for years before being sold as new so this can make the car seem newer than it is hence registration numbers don't tell you when a car is made only an indicator in many cases.Just to add to the debate on year of registration, my Sunbeam Lotus along with approximately 150 others were all registered as Y reg cars in 1983 when infact production finished in 1981. States declared new at date of registration on the V5 but was infact 2 years old. Doesn't usually matter but now the cars are coming up to 40 years old ,date of manufacture will be used to get free road tax.
Could it have been that the car went into Mexico on the cloned plates of the Harrods car by the dodgy new owners to avoid taxes on a new example rather than lesser ones of a used example? or even driven across the border on those cloned plates as a visiting car that then vanished having paid no import duties at all, and that the Harrods car is the innocent party.
My understanding was that the GTRs came from the stock of planned road cars so will also have been allocated unique VINs from that sequence so no need for the GTRs to be allocated a made up VIN when road registered.
Ed is canny enough to know that there are enough people out there who have made it there lifes work to track all the F1s, such as Peloton etc and the duplication of the UK reg number on these cars will have been spotted years go, and the reason for such well known in those circles.
This is simply a bit of click bait for his website business, and he has only probably highlighted it only now that he knows there is no chance of securing the purchase of the Mexican car.
My understanding was that the GTRs came from the stock of planned road cars so will also have been allocated unique VINs from that sequence so no need for the GTRs to be allocated a made up VIN when road registered.
Ed is canny enough to know that there are enough people out there who have made it there lifes work to track all the F1s, such as Peloton etc and the duplication of the UK reg number on these cars will have been spotted years go, and the reason for such well known in those circles.
This is simply a bit of click bait for his website business, and he has only probably highlighted it only now that he knows there is no chance of securing the purchase of the Mexican car.
Edited by PAUL500 on Saturday 19th December 10:43
PAUL500 said:
Could it have been that the car went into Mexico on the cloned plates of the Harrods car by the dodgy new owners to avoid taxes on a new example rather than lesser ones of a used example? or even driven across the border on those cloned plates as a visiting car that then vanished having paid no import duties at all, and that the Harrods car is the innocent party.
The Harrod's car, as far as the DVLA is concerned, has the VIN of the 039, not the other way around. The DVLA history also shows a colour change from brown to yellow IIRC. I think it is fairly satisfactory that 039 was issued with the plate that the Harrods car now wears. It is the Harrods car that has the 'problematic' history with the DVLA, it seems.PAUL500 said:
My understanding was that the GTRs came from the stock of planned road cars so will also have been allocated unique VINs from that sequence so no need for the GTRs to be allocated a made up VIN when road registered.
That is a good point and it correct, AIUI.PAUL500 said:
Ed is canny enough to know that there are enough people out there who have made it there lifes work to track all the F1s, such as Peloton etc and the duplication of the UK reg number on these cars will have been spotted years go, and the reason for such well known in those circles.
This is simply a bit of click bait for his website business, and he has only probably highlighted it only now that he knows there is no chance of securing the purchase of the Mexican car.
I think you are correct with this. The video is re-hashed information that can be found with a few evenings of F1 geeking on the car (I know this, because I found most of those facts and rumours a number of years ago, doing that very thing!). The video was done without the help or imput of these key folks that track F1s.This is simply a bit of click bait for his website business, and he has only probably highlighted it only now that he knows there is no chance of securing the purchase of the Mexican car.
Edited by PAUL500 on Saturday 19th December 10:43
My suspicion would be that the plate was switched from 039 onto the Harrods car (06R) for whatever reason in period. I would guess to save on road-conversion/registration. But this could never be corrected as it would draw attention to this point. Except for the VRM used on both cars, I would say they have very little to no connection.
In the UK, and pressumably elsewhere in the world, need to have a unique VIN, as prescribed by ISO 3779.
I am no expert on F1s, but all VINs of GTRs that I know of end in R**. In my mind, there is no reason to think that McLaren would issue a VIN twice, breaking both an international standard and breaking their numbering system.
I am no expert on F1s, but all VINs of GTRs that I know of end in R**. In my mind, there is no reason to think that McLaren would issue a VIN twice, breaking both an international standard and breaking their numbering system.
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