The El Chapo Mclaren F1 - Mr Clarkes F1 LM Harrods 06R
Discussion
When the car was new I can see why the colour didn't find favour, now to have one in a (presumably) unique colour that now looks quite interesting would be a bonus, makes a change to see something with a different colour out on the roads these days amongst the sea of Black / Silver / White cars out there.
As to the history of the car(s) in question I'd have absolutely no clue as to what has happened, the Harrods car doesn't have an export marker against it so how it has (allegedly) acquired the details of 039 (unless it is 039 with a conversion into a clone and the real Harrods car is also tucked away) only the owners will really know.
Not McLaren related but there's a car (probably many cars!) out there for sale currently which has a build history that is well known which has gone from being a nice tribute car to the (originally crashed and destroyed) car with the correct number plate (which was re-applied for by the original builder) to the actual car that did X Y and Z in period as the ownership has changed over the years, difference in value is now probably close to £100,000 more than if it didn't have the plate, yet despite people knowing about this it will probably sell and be on display at a show with its 'history' and proud new owner (despite not one part of it having come from the original car)
As to the history of the car(s) in question I'd have absolutely no clue as to what has happened, the Harrods car doesn't have an export marker against it so how it has (allegedly) acquired the details of 039 (unless it is 039 with a conversion into a clone and the real Harrods car is also tucked away) only the owners will really know.
Not McLaren related but there's a car (probably many cars!) out there for sale currently which has a build history that is well known which has gone from being a nice tribute car to the (originally crashed and destroyed) car with the correct number plate (which was re-applied for by the original builder) to the actual car that did X Y and Z in period as the ownership has changed over the years, difference in value is now probably close to £100,000 more than if it didn't have the plate, yet despite people knowing about this it will probably sell and be on display at a show with its 'history' and proud new owner (despite not one part of it having come from the original car)
mk1coopers said:
Not McLaren related but there's a car (probably many cars!) out there for sale currently which has a build history that is well known which has gone from being a nice tribute car to the (originally crashed and destroyed) car with the correct number plate (which was re-applied for by the original builder) to the actual car that did X Y and Z in period as the ownership has changed over the years, difference in value is now probably close to £100,000 more than if it didn't have the plate, yet despite people knowing about this it will probably sell and be on display at a show with its 'history' and proud new owner (despite not one part of it having come from the original car)
with a leaping cat badge perhaps?
The question really is if 06R is VIN less
If so by putting the P plate on the car allows it to assume the identity of 039 and virtually impossible to prove otherwise (especially if you already own 039 and have it hidden away)
0R6 suddenly becomes road legal and needs nothing more than a 'friendly' MoT garage to allow it to be driven on the roads.
If so by putting the P plate on the car allows it to assume the identity of 039 and virtually impossible to prove otherwise (especially if you already own 039 and have it hidden away)
0R6 suddenly becomes road legal and needs nothing more than a 'friendly' MoT garage to allow it to be driven on the roads.
cc8s said:
In the UK, and pressumably elsewhere in the world, need to have a unique VIN, as prescribed by ISO 3779.
I am no expert on F1s, but all VINs of GTRs that I know of end in R**. In my mind, there is no reason to think that McLaren would issue a VIN twice, breaking both an international standard and breaking their numbering system.
Correct. The GTRs had an 'R' in the VIN (not all at the very end, but all in the vehicle identifier section). Also, there was a scheme to the VINs and it would be obvious whether a VIN belonged to a specific GTR or to a specific road car. I am no expert on F1s, but all VINs of GTRs that I know of end in R**. In my mind, there is no reason to think that McLaren would issue a VIN twice, breaking both an international standard and breaking their numbering system.
PuffsBack said:
The question really is if 06R is VIN less
If so by putting the P plate on the car allows it to assume the identity of 039 and virtually impossible to prove otherwise (especially if you already own 039 and have it hidden away)
0R6 suddenly becomes road legal and needs nothing more than a 'friendly' MoT garage to allow it to be driven on the roads.
A risk someone with an old snotter may take, but I doubt an owner who has an F1, whether its actually a GTR or road (who knows, but it is one of them, and not an MR2 in drag) would be driving around in their £20m asset on false plates, risking it being seized just so they can drive it on the road now and again.If so by putting the P plate on the car allows it to assume the identity of 039 and virtually impossible to prove otherwise (especially if you already own 039 and have it hidden away)
0R6 suddenly becomes road legal and needs nothing more than a 'friendly' MoT garage to allow it to be driven on the roads.
Any muppet in a metro might brake test you, not unknown in these circles! along comes pc plod and starts poking about or the insurance assessor from said metro owners claim who wants to find a way out of paying a third parties hefty repair bill, and bingo you are car less and a hell of a lot poorer.
flemke said:
Are you saying that, if in 2020 you import from Germany a car that left the factory in 2005 and has been registered in Germany since 2005, you can get a UK 20 reg plate for it?
It's usually based on when a car was first registered in the other jurisdiction as opposed to when it left the factory. As an example, I moved from Jersey to the UK in 2014 with a 1988 911. The 911 was built in May 1988 and registered in Jersey in September 1988. Having sent a copy of the Jersey registration document to the DVLA, the car was assigned an F plate.
A friend had an XJ220 which was built in the early-mid 90s and registered in Jersey in September 1997. That car subsequently moved to the UK and was registered on an R plate.
CharlesElliott said:
Doesn't the new video suggest that the identity of #39 was deliberately muddled to get the P plate that was on #39 and is now on #06R, even though #06R is a different car?
It accusses David Clark of not following UK registration procedure, which is a ridiculous suggestion. It's clear that the guy doesn't understand that a number plate is only valid on a vehicle when it's registered in the region that issued the plate, when you export the vehicle that registration number returns to the DVLA unless kept on retention for further use on a different UK registered vehicle.The only thing that stays with the car in its life, even when crossing borders, is the VIN number. That's what is used as the unique identity, as anyone who has swapped to a private plate or imported a car knows.
For David to have been given a V5C and for it still to be used on the subsequent V5C changes, the registration number must have been lost to the car abroad at point of export.
The most likely scenario is that the car was exported and the owner abroad failed to register it in the new teritory, passing it off as still a UK registered car. With the owner being the criminal he was, that's hardly unexpected. It's likely why selling it and exporting it outside its current location legally would be a nightmare, as there would be fines and back tax to pay on the original import and subsequent years of use illegally on the roads there.
The only way the Harrods car could have legally used the Mexico cars registration number would have been if the Mexico cars plate had been put on retention prior to it being permanently exported, and only then later transferred onto the Harrods car, and only if that example had been first registered in the UK after the Mexico car.
Once properly exported though, if the above had not been done, the plate simply then stays in limbo with DVLA, they won't re allocate it to another car. If then it did return, the owner could re apply for the same plate.
Given that the Mexico cars plate is nothing special I doubt it was put on retention prior.
Was David Clark involved in the sale of the car into Mexico? it is possible I guess if he knew of the car and what happened to it, he may have used that plate and even possibly applied for the V5 for it, if it was never correctly exported (just shipped out) so was still registered with the DVLA as if it was still in the UK. It is as simple as applying for a new log book in your name, the DVLA contact the currently registered keeper for confirmation and after a month or so if they do not respond they then send off the new V5 to the applicant.
The V5 would still list the Mexico cars VIN and engine number though, so the Harrods car could never have been sold on, using that V5. It is possible he used the Mexico cars VIN simply to use the unregistered race car on the road for a while, rather than following the correct route, then simply sold it on as the race car at a later date, without any claimed UK road registration.
Be interesting to see what plate it re appears with after Lanzante have worked on it. My guess is it will have gone through the correct first registration process by now and the old Mexico plate quietly forgotten about.
Remember the car went to Mexico before the internet was really about, so country to country chats were few and far between. Many a normal car went off abroad, the DVLA never told, and a stolen car later cloned using the above method of securing a V5.
This then only comes to light after the internet developed, when people get chatting and find 2, 3 or even more cars all claim the same ID in various countries. Its rife with race cars as well, especially in the days when carnets were needed.
Once properly exported though, if the above had not been done, the plate simply then stays in limbo with DVLA, they won't re allocate it to another car. If then it did return, the owner could re apply for the same plate.
Given that the Mexico cars plate is nothing special I doubt it was put on retention prior.
Was David Clark involved in the sale of the car into Mexico? it is possible I guess if he knew of the car and what happened to it, he may have used that plate and even possibly applied for the V5 for it, if it was never correctly exported (just shipped out) so was still registered with the DVLA as if it was still in the UK. It is as simple as applying for a new log book in your name, the DVLA contact the currently registered keeper for confirmation and after a month or so if they do not respond they then send off the new V5 to the applicant.
The V5 would still list the Mexico cars VIN and engine number though, so the Harrods car could never have been sold on, using that V5. It is possible he used the Mexico cars VIN simply to use the unregistered race car on the road for a while, rather than following the correct route, then simply sold it on as the race car at a later date, without any claimed UK road registration.
Be interesting to see what plate it re appears with after Lanzante have worked on it. My guess is it will have gone through the correct first registration process by now and the old Mexico plate quietly forgotten about.
Remember the car went to Mexico before the internet was really about, so country to country chats were few and far between. Many a normal car went off abroad, the DVLA never told, and a stolen car later cloned using the above method of securing a V5.
This then only comes to light after the internet developed, when people get chatting and find 2, 3 or even more cars all claim the same ID in various countries. Its rife with race cars as well, especially in the days when carnets were needed.
The registration number is still active on a McLaren, the V5C was re-issued last year and the MOT history shows it has been in constant use in the UK.
Racing cars used to have the chassis plates swapped all the time, but they were never registered on the road car systems, we are talking about something different here.
Racing cars used to have the chassis plates swapped all the time, but they were never registered on the road car systems, we are talking about something different here.
mk1coopers said:
When the car was new I can see why the colour didn't find favour, now to have one in a (presumably) unique colour that now looks quite interesting would be a bonus, makes a change to see something with a different colour out on the roads these days amongst the sea of Black / Silver / White cars out there.
Good point. I’m getting bored of seeing silver f1’s every time I leave the house PAUL500 said:
The only way the Harrods car could have legally used the Mexico cars registration number would have been if the Mexico cars plate had been put on retention prior to it being permanently exported
No idea about how it worked in the 1990s and there is the caveat that before the DVLA was computerised that many human errors did occur (and still do, less frequently), but it isn't possible to do that now.A car has it's first registration and that can't be moved on. It's why if you have a cherished plate to put on a new car they will put an age related plate first that stays assigned to the chassis number throughout it's life-no matter if it's not used.
Otherwise you could buy a cheap 3X3 none dated plate and assign it to a brand new car like ABC 123 or something.
I've owned two cars that had new regs put on them, a Silvertsone Experience Exige that was an 06 year but wasn't road registered until 08 and an M3csl that came from Jersey. Both got their 06 and 53 plates as if they were registered in those years but both had an apendix on the V5 to state they were registered after the year of manufacture.
The M3csl stated it was imported to the UK on a certain date and the Exige had a note to say it wasn't registered on the road before a certain date.
Having looked at many old cars it wasn't unusual to see anomalies over the years however especially from the old manned DVLA days-I can recall more than one air cooled imported 911 that had a registration plate that corresponded to the date it was imported rather than manufactured.
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