The El Chapo Mclaren F1 - Mr Clarkes F1 LM Harrods 06R
Discussion
shirt said:
Good point. I’m getting bored of seeing silver f1’s every time I leave the house
Nice that you have so many F1's in your driveway, 
If the Harrods car has got 039 as a VIN number against it on the HPi then there are only a few ways for that to have happened (assuming that the VIN of the Harrods car is the original 06R) , the V5 was retained by the original owner with no export marker when it went out of the country and it's being used on the Harrods car, 039 came back in and there are 2 cars with 039 dressed up as the Harrods car (clones of valuable race cars aren't unheard of), someone applied for 039's V5 as they could see it didn't have an export marker on it (but they knew it had gone out of the country) and it got issued as the registered keeper didn't respond to the DVLA letter telling them that someone was applying for it.
All speculation and as said before, only the people that own the cars will know the truth
Edited by mk1coopers on Thursday 14th January 13:39
All of which I had already suggested back on 4th Jan.
Mclaren will have assigned a consecutive series of 17 digit VINs for the planned run of 300 cars long before even the first one was built.
The race cars were taken out of this planned run of road cars, at that stage they may or may not have had that unique number stamped/bonded to the chassis.
The race ID number would be in addition to that VIN, not instead of it, so in this case chassis 6 is extra over to the original VIN for that particular chassis.
Mclaren will be fully aware of which VIN the chassis 6 race car should have, however if chassis 6 race car was road registered without Mclaren input then the owner at the time may not have known what it was if the plate had not been bonded in when first built.
It could not be first registered with DVLA on just that 6 number, as it must have a 17 digit VIN, if one it not listed at first registration then DVLA will allocate its own unique number, starting SABTVRO
Given that the Harrods car, wearing the Mexican cars UK plate has a dvla VIN ending in 039 then it appears to be a ringer, in the sense that it is not correctly road registered as the chassis it actually is. All dvla could do is withdraw the V5 related to that number plate, as its clearly still a genuine F1 GTR and not stolen, so no fraud etc has taken place regarding actual ownership of that car, unless the current owner believed it had been properly road registered and was VIN chassis 39, but who buys a multi million pound car like that without doing the correct background checks etc. Even the engine number would be wrong against that listed on the V5 for chassis 39.
To kit a F1 road car out as a duplicate race spec GTR would be one hell of a task without the factorys input, given they have so many unique components, so I doubt its the Mexican car. In addition the race cars sell for less than the road cars so it would make no sense to build such a replica from one, regardless of the road cars back story.
Clearly those that know.....know, and have done for some time what the actual story is, and their silence is deafening, they quickly jump on any thread that is F1 related whatever forum it may be on, not a peep from them on this thread.
My guess, the Harrods car will drop the Mexican cars UK reg plate and stay just as a race car from now on, or get properly first registered, using the correct VIN for race chassis 6.
It would be interesting to see what VIN the race chassis 10 has allocated to it on the DVLA system, as given its owner there would be no doubt it was done properly and with Mclaren input at the time.
Mclaren will have assigned a consecutive series of 17 digit VINs for the planned run of 300 cars long before even the first one was built.
The race cars were taken out of this planned run of road cars, at that stage they may or may not have had that unique number stamped/bonded to the chassis.
The race ID number would be in addition to that VIN, not instead of it, so in this case chassis 6 is extra over to the original VIN for that particular chassis.
Mclaren will be fully aware of which VIN the chassis 6 race car should have, however if chassis 6 race car was road registered without Mclaren input then the owner at the time may not have known what it was if the plate had not been bonded in when first built.
It could not be first registered with DVLA on just that 6 number, as it must have a 17 digit VIN, if one it not listed at first registration then DVLA will allocate its own unique number, starting SABTVRO
Given that the Harrods car, wearing the Mexican cars UK plate has a dvla VIN ending in 039 then it appears to be a ringer, in the sense that it is not correctly road registered as the chassis it actually is. All dvla could do is withdraw the V5 related to that number plate, as its clearly still a genuine F1 GTR and not stolen, so no fraud etc has taken place regarding actual ownership of that car, unless the current owner believed it had been properly road registered and was VIN chassis 39, but who buys a multi million pound car like that without doing the correct background checks etc. Even the engine number would be wrong against that listed on the V5 for chassis 39.
To kit a F1 road car out as a duplicate race spec GTR would be one hell of a task without the factorys input, given they have so many unique components, so I doubt its the Mexican car. In addition the race cars sell for less than the road cars so it would make no sense to build such a replica from one, regardless of the road cars back story.
Clearly those that know.....know, and have done for some time what the actual story is, and their silence is deafening, they quickly jump on any thread that is F1 related whatever forum it may be on, not a peep from them on this thread.
My guess, the Harrods car will drop the Mexican cars UK reg plate and stay just as a race car from now on, or get properly first registered, using the correct VIN for race chassis 6.
It would be interesting to see what VIN the race chassis 10 has allocated to it on the DVLA system, as given its owner there would be no doubt it was done properly and with Mclaren input at the time.
Edited by PAUL500 on Friday 15th January 23:35
PAUL500 said:
All of which I had already suggested back on 4th Jan.
Yes, we've all made suggestions at various points and times on this thread, most of which have been similar , with the V5 if the registration was withdrawn (even if it is not the 'correct' one for the race car it's 039's) I'm sure the powers that be could make life very difficult if they wanted to, especially as they seem to be much more focused on vehicles that have, how shall we put it, 'discrepancies' that have come to light (which has happened a lot more now the world is so connected)I've seen evidence of people building the same car multiple times using the same chassis (VIN) number in the classic car world who got away with sending them to the 4 corners of the world whilst somehow not having the UK documents issued with an Export marker (before the WWW was in common use), how it was done I don't know.
I know of only one F1 that had the VIN changed as I was responsible for the 'ringing'
It was done to Ron Dennis's 'original' car before it left the chassis production line. He wanted to keep his original VIN which I think from memory was 011 but gave up his build slot to a customer. This explain's why Ron's car is referred to as a later build no.
As it was just too easy to 'ring' Ron's car we devised a more secure way of attaching the VIN to each chassis
If McLaren were to inspect the VIN on an F1 I would hope they could spot if it's been tampered with but I reckon I've got the knowledge and skills to change the VIN in a discrete enough way that would be impossible to tell
It was done to Ron Dennis's 'original' car before it left the chassis production line. He wanted to keep his original VIN which I think from memory was 011 but gave up his build slot to a customer. This explain's why Ron's car is referred to as a later build no.
As it was just too easy to 'ring' Ron's car we devised a more secure way of attaching the VIN to each chassis
If McLaren were to inspect the VIN on an F1 I would hope they could spot if it's been tampered with but I reckon I've got the knowledge and skills to change the VIN in a discrete enough way that would be impossible to tell
So the Harrods car is now on its correct documentation, rather than pretending to be the El Chapo car for all these years.
Naughty naughty. I wonder if the police will be knocking on the door of the previous owner/s
I imagine this correct registration was done as part of the work when it was at Lanzante.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv4t5GbkblQ&t=...
Naughty naughty. I wonder if the police will be knocking on the door of the previous owner/s
I imagine this correct registration was done as part of the work when it was at Lanzante.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv4t5GbkblQ&t=...
Edited by PAUL500 on Wednesday 10th March 17:40
M505 YRN is registered as a GTR, but first registered 1st August 2020, manufactured 1995. First MOT was on 20th March 2020 and no MOT history before that. Am not sure how is was MOTd before it was registered? Or was that MOT actually an IVA type test to register it?
P440 CPJ is registered as an F1 (not GTR), first registered 18 December 1996, manufactured Dec 1996. MOT 8th April 2020 and extensive MOT history before that.
It seems a bit strange that 'both' cars were MOTd in 2020....if they are really the same car?
P440 CPJ is registered as an F1 (not GTR), first registered 18 December 1996, manufactured Dec 1996. MOT 8th April 2020 and extensive MOT history before that.
It seems a bit strange that 'both' cars were MOTd in 2020....if they are really the same car?
Edited by CharlesElliott on Thursday 11th March 07:55
Its only a matter of time before DVLA revoke the V55s of both registrations, and tell the registered keeper/s to submit their car/s for inspection.
Way too much inconsistency and evidence online of the car wearing the wrong plate, and being taxed/insured/ MOT'd for many many years on that plate, when the actual car assigned that number left these shores a long time ago.
Huge can of worms.
Way too much inconsistency and evidence online of the car wearing the wrong plate, and being taxed/insured/ MOT'd for many many years on that plate, when the actual car assigned that number left these shores a long time ago.
Huge can of worms.
simonrockman said:
As I said in my comment to the Shmee/Vinwikki video on this, a drug dealer isn't exactly worried about the legality of a number plate.
It's not the drug dealer who has to worry; it's the owner of the GTR that appears to have been running around on a cloned plate for the last twenty years.Old news of course but I do wonder if the buyer of the unregistered chassis 060 from Hartley Junior will ever get it registered or leave it untouched! I assume the latter...
https://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/car/previously-sold/...
Do we have any idea what that sold for?!
https://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/car/previously-sold/...
Do we have any idea what that sold for?!
So is this the only ID plate on the race cars? If having a road VIN allocated, its then not applied to the car, as it is built as a race car?
Would a road car have its VIN plate in the same location? Doesn't look like it would take much to make a replica road car VIN plate and then swap it for the race one.
Would a road car have its VIN plate in the same location? Doesn't look like it would take much to make a replica road car VIN plate and then swap it for the race one.
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