Mclaren - track day tyre choice
Discussion
isaldiri said:
Tispkj - thread hijack as I didn't want to post on the porsche forum given it's uh not about a porsche.
Re track tyres
You cannot find toyos in the correct rear sizes for the 12c anyway. Cup2s or Trofeo R (make sure it's the 650 approved 99Y load rated trofeo than the 103Y rated one used on the P1) are your best bet and always run the car in track mode suspension. There is not a lot of clearance between the rear diffusor and tyres, especially so if you have the cf diffusor and the 12c doesn't really like square shouldered rear tyres and has been known to either damage the tyre arch linings (expensive) or even the diffusor (very expensive if cf).
If you are prepared to run 10mm spacers at the rear it should definitely be fine for any 305 section trofeo/cup2, possibly even the wider 315 toyo. I will be running cup2s in oem sizes in march without spacers on my car which possibly is a risk but will see how it goes.
Hi Isaldiri thought would start another thread for future searches.Re track tyres
You cannot find toyos in the correct rear sizes for the 12c anyway. Cup2s or Trofeo R (make sure it's the 650 approved 99Y load rated trofeo than the 103Y rated one used on the P1) are your best bet and always run the car in track mode suspension. There is not a lot of clearance between the rear diffusor and tyres, especially so if you have the cf diffusor and the 12c doesn't really like square shouldered rear tyres and has been known to either damage the tyre arch linings (expensive) or even the diffusor (very expensive if cf).
If you are prepared to run 10mm spacers at the rear it should definitely be fine for any 305 section trofeo/cup2, possibly even the wider 315 toyo. I will be running cup2s in oem sizes in march without spacers on my car which possibly is a risk but will see how it goes.
Thanks for your comments, I did notice that Toyo dont currently do a 305 but as you say make a 315, I was hoping that with the new 888R that may change, I did notice that the P1 appears to run my superlight alloys with a 315 section tyre,so considered that as a possiblr option. IMO the 12c badly needs some spacers for looks but didnt want to or know how that may mess up all the electronics on the car ?.
My question over on Porsche forum was more are Toyo really the same price as everything else now ?
I spoke to what appeared to be a couple of knowledgable guys at a recent RMA day who looked like they could peddle (think they were instructors)who just happend to have a 12c with them, I asked what they thought of the car and both said that they were unimpressed last time out with the car on Pirelli rubber but had just fitted MPSC2 and it had transformed the car completly, I will probably go this route unless a set of Toyo's are significantly cheaper.
Thanks Guys, I think the Michelins may well be the way forward basis they are available in the correct size and are a proven product.
I used the Toyo R888 on my GT3 a few moons ago (as most did at the time) and never had any problems, at the time they were almost half price to the MPSC.
I was hoping the new R888R would be available in 305 to try but as I said in the porsche post it appears Toyo are now same money as all the others.
edited to add
Whats the thoughts on tyre age chaps ? as in I dont want something that has been sat on the shelf for 3 years do I ? how old is acceptable ?
I used the Toyo R888 on my GT3 a few moons ago (as most did at the time) and never had any problems, at the time they were almost half price to the MPSC.
I was hoping the new R888R would be available in 305 to try but as I said in the porsche post it appears Toyo are now same money as all the others.
edited to add
Whats the thoughts on tyre age chaps ? as in I dont want something that has been sat on the shelf for 3 years do I ? how old is acceptable ?
Edited by TISPKJ on Tuesday 5th January 13:46
I had a quote on a set of MPSC2 this afternoon, the guy said he quoted for N (Porsche fitment) as they were available both front and rear, whereas Y (Ferrari) are only available in rears.
Do things like N rating really make any odds ? I always thought it was just another of the likes of Porsche ripping you off.
Do things like N rating really make any odds ? I always thought it was just another of the likes of Porsche ripping you off.
Guys, have fitted the tyres and wheels to the car.
They are MPSC2 305-30-20 103y and 235-35-19 91y (basically Porsche NO fitment)
I can't see that they will possibly foul anything to be honest although appreciate that hard track use could expand them a little.
Have not driven yet so will report back as and when.
They are MPSC2 305-30-20 103y and 235-35-19 91y (basically Porsche NO fitment)
I can't see that they will possibly foul anything to be honest although appreciate that hard track use could expand them a little.
Have not driven yet so will report back as and when.
TISPKJ said:
I have today ordered the MPSC2 so will post once on the car in road use, and another when I do a trackday.
So as promised some good news and bad news ....On the road there is no issue with the tyres at all, and on track they stick like you know what !
Now the downside, on the rear they do rub on the inside front edge,(first picture) and mine due to the design of the crappy carpet they call inner wheel arch liners the back on the nearside (second picture).
Like I say this is due to the inner wheel arch protector being distorted slightly so in most cases I would suggest it will be ok, but not on the inner edge.
My guess is that once on track the air pressure is reducing the size of the liners and flexing them such that they rub on the tyres, of course the tyres will also increase slightly in size also.
so for the next trackday I think I will remove the rear inner wheel arches after speaking with McLaren.
sorry just found I cant post pictures from work will do later
isaldiri said:
Tispkj - were you running the car in track suspension mode? Also which track were you at could I ask? Typically the liners are not an issue at tracks without a lot of undulation (ie like Spa/'ring). Brands is the only UK circuit I would have thought might have an issue.
The liners cover quite a few exposed bits and bobs like hoses and wires that you don't want damaged, I don't think it's a good idea to remove them personally.
ah, that's a good point actually and I remember reading it maybe on this thread.The liners cover quite a few exposed bits and bobs like hoses and wires that you don't want damaged, I don't think it's a good idea to remove them personally.
In short No I didn't, I was running the car at Brands Indy circuit and at the noise test they were uming and ahing about if it would be ok to go on track, I promised to keep it in std power setting so as not to open the exhaust valves as I didn't want to get thrown off,(for the record with sports exhaust the car is fine like this, friends commented how quite the car was so once rolling I recon you could get away with sport engine mode) from memory I had the handling in sport, I did put handling in track briefly until I realised the orange light on dash meant traction control was off !!
not wishing to sound like a girl but was my first track day in the 12c and first for 3-4 years so didn't want any dramas, I am booked on the GP circuit in June
Have not removed liners as yet to look whats behind but take your point.
barchetta_boy said:
Slightly off topic but related to your last post: my understanding is that the sports exhaust gets no louder nor quieter in different modes, its just the Intake Sound Generator that changes and lets more noise into the cabin. Is that not correct?
Shame about the tyres, I would love to move off Pirellis onto Pilot Sport Cup 2s or indeed Pilot Super Sports.
Others can confirm but I am fairly sure the exhaust does get louder once powertrain is in sport or track mode, it certainly seems that way with the window open.Shame about the tyres, I would love to move off Pirellis onto Pilot Sport Cup 2s or indeed Pilot Super Sports.
I got shafted by MSV a few years back in a 911 to the tune of £250, a days holiday, and 5 hours travelling and fuel so didn't want to repeat the process.
Part of the issue is that they want around 6k revs for the noise test and you cant get 6k in std mode it has to be sport otherwise it will only rev to something like 4k, at the test it was just over so wanted to play safe and I was not out to break any records just try the car for the first time.
On reflection Im sure sport mode would have been fine, I just didn't want the hassle TBH and the car was so quick anyway didn't need if that makes sense.
Ok so this has been annoying me all afternoon, has to be a reason so popped in the garage when I got home.
The MPSC2 are physically a touch bigger than the pirellis, measurements are as accurate as I can get them.
Pirelli std fitment are 307mm wide x 684mm high
MPSC2 same size are 313mm wide x 695 high
We are only talking a few mm here but seems to make enough of a difference
The MPSC2 are physically a touch bigger than the pirellis, measurements are as accurate as I can get them.
Pirelli std fitment are 307mm wide x 684mm high
MPSC2 same size are 313mm wide x 695 high
We are only talking a few mm here but seems to make enough of a difference
isaldiri said:
Thanks for the update and the measurements. Very useful.
I would suggest keeping an eye on the existing wear on the liners and run the car again on track suspension mode and take a look again after a few laps if there is more wear.
Otherwise using 10mm spacers on the rear would be my suggestion but you will need longer wheel bolts.
I believe you wouldn't need 20mm spacers
personally I wouldn't use a narrower rear.
]
Yeah no point in fitting new liners at this stage, will try track mode as you suggest and see if it makes any odds ( I cant see it making any difference personally as car rides flat anyway)I would suggest keeping an eye on the existing wear on the liners and run the car again on track suspension mode and take a look again after a few laps if there is more wear.
Otherwise using 10mm spacers on the rear would be my suggestion but you will need longer wheel bolts.
I believe you wouldn't need 20mm spacers
personally I wouldn't use a narrower rear.
]
10mm spacers may do the job however looks wise the car could do with a wider stance. ........ any idea where we can get spacers ? ...... I was going to try Hills Engineering if I do have to go down that route
looking at those measurements you wouldn't be using a narrower rear tyre, Michelins 305 is actually a 315, so on that basis we could run a 295 which in reality should be a 305
isaldiri said:
I'll ask a friend where he got the spacers as he has fitted them before.
personally for me track suspension mode made a decent difference. I wore through the rear liners after a day at the ring on sport hajdling mode and since changing to using track (not ideal there tbh) have done 3 days without issue.
But I thought you were not running MPSC on the car yet ?personally for me track suspension mode made a decent difference. I wore through the rear liners after a day at the ring on sport hajdling mode and since changing to using track (not ideal there tbh) have done 3 days without issue.
isaldiri said:
TISPKJ said:
But I thought you were not running MPSC on the car yet ?
Not yet yes. Supersports on my car. It has a considerably squarer shoulder than the pzero and it's not far off a cup2 by my reckoning. I think the same will apply with cups when I do the switch with regards to handling modes.I haven't got a proper quote yet but am told the inner arches are circa £350 a side !
isaldiri said:
TISPKJ said:
10mm spacers may do the job however looks wise the car could do with a wider stance. ........ any idea where we can get spacers ? ...... I was going to try Hills Engineering if I do have to go down that route
About the spacers as mentioned earlier.5x112, 57.1 center bore are the ones you need it seems, in whichever mm preferred. I believe H&R Audi spacers are available in the exact sizes required.
Personally i am still prepared to try the 305 cup2 as standard based on my usage of the supersports. Will see how that goes in june anyway.
......... Your looking at a £700 gambleThanks for that, the spacers would solve most of the rubbing issues but not the rolling radius ones albeit those are minor.
isaldiri said:
TISPKJ said:
Well don't come crying to me etc etc ......... Your looking at a £700 gamble
I did say way earlier in the thread using track mode suspension was necessary too with those tyres.. ......... Your looking at a £700 gamble
Hi Mate, I didn't realise that was you otherwise I would have said hello, I was there also, scrapes in sport mode as well if that helps
inner arches are marked now so will address over winter I expect.
Fantastic levels of grip available from the cups with no drama.
Did the Pirelli man give you a hard time as to why you chose Michelin ?
inner arches are marked now so will address over winter I expect.
Fantastic levels of grip available from the cups with no drama.
Did the Pirelli man give you a hard time as to why you chose Michelin ?
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