Hybrid vs Petrol question
Discussion
Looking to buy my first hybrid, a Toyota Estima. It’s a 2.4l petrol hybrid and it looks like the technology is previous generation Toyota so a bit out of date. The alternative is a non hybrid 2.4l petrol version. Majority of driving will be short local runs by my wife doing school runs and her business , with the odd pilgrimage from London to Aberdeen to see the mother in law. In short, is the hybrid likely to be worth it? Premium over non hybrid model is not much but being a Japanese import history is going to be difficult to come by and if it goes wrong it’s going to cost c. £1,800 to fix. Thanks
buggalugs said:
Short local runs is where you see the biggest benefit from hybrid
This. I'm fairly new to hybrid ownership. I would say ~95% + of our journeys are within a single charge range. We've done longer journeys too and over 4.5k miles we're getting 62mpg. I don't think I've put any fuel in it for 6 weeks. It's new so it's under warranty. You have to weigh up whether the higher purchase price - savings on fuel will realise you an overall saving during your planned ownership.
Welshbeef said:
Also unless it’s buying Tesla’s the visits from London to deepest darkest Scotland are not really going to be doable on one or two charges
True, but don't you just buy a Tesla?
ZesPak said:
Welshbeef said:
Also unless it’s buying Tesla’s the visits from London to deepest darkest Scotland are not really going to be doable on one or two charges
True, but don't you just buy a Tesla?Back to the original question.
Can't comment on those exact models but we had a BMW i8 for a year which is a hybrid. On anything less than 20 miles, starting with a full battery, the economy was 80mpg+. but when you factor in the eletricity cost, which is easily forgotten, it worked out more like the same cost as doing 50 mpg. Stil not bad but be careful when looking at the figures that all costs are taken care of. That said, during covid we can the i8 for 4 months without visiting a petrol station, it was just a waste of a car that wasn't meant to be driven like that.
Heres Johnny said:
Even the more vocal pro Tesla from a year ago,typically just after they got their first Tesla, are now looking to move away.
I assume that's aimed at me? Purely a cost based decision as mentioned, had they not increased by around 75% in the past 2 years I'd definitely be swapping for another.
SWoll said:
Heres Johnny said:
Even the more vocal pro Tesla from a year ago,typically just after they got their first Tesla, are now looking to move away.
I assume that's aimed at me? Purely a cost based decision as mentioned, had they not increased by around 75% in the past 2 years I'd definitely be swapping for another.
There are a fair few on TMC, the facebook owners group etc all doing the same. It's a combination of the Tesla novelty wearing off, lack of choice from Tesla (ie just the Model 3 now, no real idea when the MY, MS or MX will be availble here), finding out they weren't using the superchargers so that USP wasn't a real one, and the competition deliving an increasing number of alternative options that are better in the areas that mattered. A year ago the same people were saying they could never see themselves buying anything but a Tesla, and now are.
Heres Johnny said:
There are a fair few on TMC, the facebook owners group etc all doing the same. It's a combination of the Tesla novelty wearing off, lack of choice from Tesla (ie just the Model 3 now, no real idea when the MY, MS or MX will be availble here), finding out they weren't using the superchargers so that USP wasn't a real one, and the competition deliving an increasing number of alternative options that are better in the areas that mattered. A year ago the same people were saying they could never see themselves buying anything but a Tesla, and now are.
There's definitely a honeymoon period with many products. I'm still not over mine after more than 2 years though. Having just done a 5500km trip in it, I like it even more.The thing is that Tesla doesn't have brand loyalty yet. No people who grew up with a Tesla from their parents, have wanted a Tesla since they were boys or just had one after the other for the past 15 years. I see this with me and many of my friends, those who grew up with BMW/Mercedes/... at home often have a loyalty towards that brand.
What I'm saying is that all the "vocal pro" or "fanboys" have been created with their current products. Not with some romanticised image of the brand.
Just to put this in perspective: Two people, guy A has leased 3 consecutive Audi's in the past 12 years, guy B BMW's (for example).
Guy A buys an E-tron and tells you it's the best car ever made.
Guy B buys a Tesla and tells you it's the best car ever made.
Which one of these will most likely be more biased?
It's just as easy to put that Tesla owners aren't tied to a brand. Otherwise they wouldn't have gotten a Tesla in the first place.
Variety is the spice of life.
Heres Johnny said:
Carly Simon wrote a song about Warren Beatty once
There are a fair few on TMC, the facebook owners group etc all doing the same. It's a combination of the Tesla novelty wearing off, lack of choice from Tesla (ie just the Model 3 now, no real idea when the MY, MS or MX will be availble here), finding out they weren't using the superchargers so that USP wasn't a real one, and the competition deliving an increasing number of alternative options that are better in the areas that mattered. A year ago the same people were saying they could never see themselves buying anything but a Tesla, and now are.
Nobody does it better? There are a fair few on TMC, the facebook owners group etc all doing the same. It's a combination of the Tesla novelty wearing off, lack of choice from Tesla (ie just the Model 3 now, no real idea when the MY, MS or MX will be availble here), finding out they weren't using the superchargers so that USP wasn't a real one, and the competition deliving an increasing number of alternative options that are better in the areas that mattered. A year ago the same people were saying they could never see themselves buying anything but a Tesla, and now are.
100% see your point, and for S/X buyers alternatives like the Taycan CT, Audi GT would certainly be something to consider. I will say that nothing really takes my fancy in the Model 3 space despite 2 years of catch up, although the soon to be released i4 M50 definitely looks worth a look and I'm sure that will change over time.
I think most will agree that hybrid is a stop-gap solution. Waiting for the infrastructure, mindset and manufacturers to be ready for BEV.
https://www.electrive.com/2021/09/07/daimler-is-do...
https://www.electrive.com/2021/09/07/daimler-is-do...
ZesPak said:
I think most will agree that hybrid is a stop-gap solution. Waiting for the infrastructure, mindset and manufacturers to be ready for BEV.
https://www.electrive.com/2021/09/07/daimler-is-do...
its simple in my mind you either go BEV or you don't, no way i would want to be financial liability for a modern hybrid out of warranty https://www.electrive.com/2021/09/07/daimler-is-do...
Dave Hedgehog said:
its simple in my mind you either go BEV or you don't, no way i would want to be financial liability for a modern hybrid out of warranty
If the hybrid part of the Hybrid fails will if not simply work as a car with an engine carrying round an non working hybrid element? Not great but it prevents it from being a scrap car.
Welshbeef said:
If the hybrid part of the Hybrid fails will if not simply work as a car with an engine carrying round an non working hybrid element?
Not great but it prevents it from being a scrap car.
The problem, a part from packaging, is the complexity. You've got 3 systems, which depending on the car model are more or less important:Not great but it prevents it from being a scrap car.
- The internal combustion, with gearbox, fuel tank and engine
- The EV, mainly batteries and motor(s)
- The system that makes them work together
Some combine the power through one or both axles (bmw 330e iirc). I'd say that a lot of these will fail if any of the 3 components fail. Even in leasing, these have been proven to have a less than stellar reliability record.
However, Toyota of course seems to have them reliable.
I'm not convinced the Hybrid in this particular case is worth it.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/15576/to...
If you still fancy an Estima (and having a strange fondness for JDM vans I quite like them myself) I'd probably just go for a petrol version but the 3500 V6 instead
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/15576/to...
If you still fancy an Estima (and having a strange fondness for JDM vans I quite like them myself) I'd probably just go for a petrol version but the 3500 V6 instead
Welshbeef said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
its simple in my mind you either go BEV or you don't, no way i would want to be financial liability for a modern hybrid out of warranty
If the hybrid part of the Hybrid fails will if not simply work as a car with an engine carrying round an non working hybrid element? Not great but it prevents it from being a scrap car.
Edited by buggalugs on Wednesday 15th September 17:23
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