Roadsters?

[andburg]

starsky67 said:

kambites said:

andburg said:

I just cant get over the supposed figures

1.8t and roughly 2ft longer and 1ft wider than an ND MX5 with the base model and a base power of 231kw (310bhp)

at that size and power it feels like its going to be well wide of the mark

It would be a really odd decision to make it that big and heavy given that it's apparently based on the MG4's platform. I'd have guessed the entry level car would have similar specs to the MG4, so around 1600kg, 200bhp and about the size of a Boxster; with the top spec cars running two motors and around 400bhp. Hopefully the price wont be massively more than a comparable MG4 either, so around the £30-35k mark for the entry level model.

So even at 1600kg, the weight of a BMW 650i (1615kg) with less power (200 vs 367hp) and fewer seats. You can see the problem.

For the next 15-20 years, your best bet if you want a lightweight roadster is to buy a lightweight petrol roadster and keep it in good condition until battery tech improves.

Checks garage..yeah got ine

[otolith]

TheDeuce said:

As I said earlier, the cars can be 'light enough' for the sharper power response, higher power levels and vastly improved weight distribution to offset the weight penalty - at least for driving on the public roads where you can never push to the limit in anycase. On a track, the lightweight ICE car remains superior, especially in fun terms.

Hmm, I’m not really convinced of that. Counteracting mass with more power gives you back the kind of performance you can only really exploit off the public road, but it doesn’t give you the feel that a really light car has, and which you can exploit anywhere. I think that’s just going to be history until the energy and power densities of batteries improve sufficiently (which I expect they will).

[kambites]

otolith said:

TheDeuce said:

As I said earlier, the cars can be 'light enough' for the sharper power response, higher power levels and vastly improved weight distribution to offset the weight penalty - at least for driving on the public roads where you can never push to the limit in anycase. On a track, the lightweight ICE car remains superior, especially in fun terms.

Hmm, I’m not really convinced of that. Counteracting mass with more power gives you back the kind of performance you can only really exploit off the public road, but it doesn’t give you the feel that a really light car has, and which you can exploit anywhere. I think that’s just going to be history until the energy and power densities of batteries improve sufficiently (which I expect they will).

It's possible to make a car feel lighter than it is, but only to an extent. A 1700kg car is never going to feel like a 1200kg car, and a 1200kg car is never going to feel like an 800kg car. I think in terms of sales success it's a bit of a moot point though because from my experience, most sports cars never get driven even remotely hard, at least by their first owner.

Personally I can't see myself ever buying a sports car weighing more than about a tonne, but I fully appreciate why people buy things like the Z4, SLC and TT.

Edited by kambites on Friday 14th April 14:59

[PastelNata]

I would like an EV Roadster.

I have a Z4 M40i now and I bought the M40i over the 2.0i for the noise...but I am finding I would prefer no ICE engine noise at all.

I've gone off ICE noises.

Driving through the countryside with only the sound of Nature - just like when I'm cycling - is far more appealing to me now.

[SWoll]

PastelNata said:

I would like an EV Roadster.

I have a Z4 M40i now and I bought the M40i over the 2.0i for the noise...but I am finding I would prefer no ICE engine noise at all.

I've gone off ICE noises.

Driving through the countryside with only the sound of Nature - just like when I'm cycling - is far more appealing to me now.

Assuming you are travelling at more than 15mph in any car all you are going to hear is road noise from the tyres and wind noise from the door mirrors etc. No chance you are going to hear "Nature".

[DonkeyApple]

PastelNata said:

Driving through the countryside with only the sound of Nature - just like when I'm cycling - is far more appealing to me now.

That is an appeal. I suspect the issue with small roadsters is that once you start using them like sports cars the range plummets and the countryside hasn't a huge number of fast chargers yet.

For a trundle round suburbia, nipping into the countryside for lunch and back without giving it too much beans then they'll be perfect but hitting the one road, just going where the mood takes you and having some fun with the pedals? The battery tech isn't there as of yet.

[otolith]

I’m not so sure - isn’t high constant speed the range-killer, rather than repeated strong acceleration and braking?

[starsky67]

otolith said:

I’m not so sure - isn’t high constant speed the range-killer, rather than repeated strong acceleration and braking?

Yes

One shocking thing I found taking my EV6 GT round Brands Hatch was that the economy only dropped from 2.8 m/kWh to 1.4. And that was in the wet which also affects economy. It’s very impressive.

In a petrol car typically I find it goes down 3-4 x

You can see from the video that I’m accelerating hard, but you get most of that back through regen

With sporty driving you don’t usually have sustained high speed.

It’s high speed autobahn type driving (ie faster than UK motorway speeds) that really kill the range, so not really an issue in the U.K.

[TheDeuce]

starsky67 said:

otolith said:

I’m not so sure - isn’t high constant speed the range-killer, rather than repeated strong acceleration and braking?

Yes

One shocking thing I found taking my EV6 GT round Brands Hatch was that the economy only dropped from 2.8 m/kWh to 1.4. And that was in the wet which also affects economy. It’s very impressive.

In a petrol car typically I find it goes down 3-4 x

You can see from the video that I’m accelerating hard, but you get most of that back through regen

With sporty driving you don’t usually have sustained high speed.

It’s high speed autobahn type driving (ie faster than UK motorway speeds) that really kill the range, so not really an issue in the U.K.

Yep, and driven about as 'sportily' as is sensible on the open roads, the drop off is even less. I've long seen that as a big EV pro for the sporty driver - you can enjoy a sporty EV constantly without immediately hitting single digit mpg figures! It's almost like free performance.

I'm sure that will translate very well into lighter weight EV roadsters.

[DonkeyApple]

otolith said:

I’m not so sure - isn’t high constant speed the range-killer, rather than repeated strong acceleration and braking?

Maybe on paper but I absolutely demolished the battery in an i3s just driving it around the local roads in the style of an 80s hot hatch.

An EV doesn't defy Newtonian Laws however much regen it can do to scavenge wasted energy.

A saga style runout from the Home Counties plodding out on the M40 to a nice pub in the Cotswolds isn't going to be any kind of issue, even with a spot of MX5ing down some country lanes (pottering at 30 while pointing at cows). But start slapping the thing down the fun B roads and old A roads to get to the destination, then having a bit of fun when there and it's just not going to work out well.

My neighbour in Hampstead bought a Tesla Roadster when they came out and his plan was to use it for the runs out of London at the weekend. He soon ditched that and went back to his 911 and used the Tesla for the daily commute into the office as that was the task it could do brilliantly, the 12 mile round trip to Broadgate.

We have very clearly moved on significantly in both battery tech and the number of chargers but the fundamental problem hasn't gone away and it bubbles back to the surface with sports cars being used sportingly.

Time will resolve that, you can see formula E can now manage a short race using one car instead of two. We will get smaller, lighter batteries than can be recharged quicker and from a wider network of chargers that restrict one's movements less but I suspect that the new EV Boxster will sell very well but highlight the unspoken truth and horror that we all know which is that very, very few purchasers of sports cars use them for any sporting activity other than plodding out to the countryside to enjoy one's retirement or having to drive out from London for Sunday lunch at mum's or nip to Westfield.

[TheDeuce]

DonkeyApple said:

otolith said:

I’m not so sure - isn’t high constant speed the range-killer, rather than repeated strong acceleration and braking?

Maybe on paper but I absolutely demolished the battery in an i3s just driving it around the local roads in the style of an 80s hot hatch.

An EV doesn't defy Newtonian Laws however much regen it can do to scavenge wasted energy.

A saga style runout from the Home Counties plodding out on the M40 to a nice pub in the Cotswolds isn't going to be any kind of issue, even with a spot of MX5ing down some country lanes (pottering at 30 while pointing at cows). But start slapping the thing down the fun B roads and old A roads to get to the destination, then having a bit of fun when there and it's just not going to work out well.

My neighbour in Hampstead bought a Tesla Roadster when they came out and his plan was to use it for the runs out of London at the weekend. He soon ditched that and went back to his 911 and used the Tesla for the daily commute into the office as that was the task it could do brilliantly, the 12 mile round trip to Broadgate.

We have very clearly moved on significantly in both battery tech and the number of chargers but the fundamental problem hasn't gone away and it bubbles back to the surface with sports cars being used sportingly.

Time will resolve that, you can see formula E can now manage a short race using one car instead of two. We will get smaller, lighter batteries than can be recharged quicker and from a wider network of chargers that restrict one's movements less but I suspect that the new EV Boxster will sell very well but highlight the unspoken truth and horror that we all know which is that very, very few purchasers of sports cars use them for any sporting activity other than plodding out to the countryside to enjoy one's retirement or having to drive out from London for Sunday lunch at mum's or nip to Westfield.

Not sure why the i3 would lose range so rapidly, but of all the EVs I have driven the penalty for very sporty b road driving is minimal - and not eve close to what I was used to with ICE.

This should be great news for roadsters, as the old school roadster fans basically love stirring the gearbox and keeping the engine regs high through the twisty bits - which is great fun and gets the most performance out of the car, but it's also basically the quickest way to burn through fuel as quickly as possible. Obviously the gear stick waggling is unavailable in an EV roadster but the car is always on song and at full power delivery anyway.

Formula e cars are completely different as they're battling high levels of aero drag as they race. Your EV MG roadster bombing down a b road won't be!

[plfrench]

TheDeuce said:

Not sure why the i3 would lose range so rapidly, but of all the EVs I have driven the penalty for very sporty b road driving is minimal - and not eve close to what I was used to with ICE.

This should be great news for roadsters, as the old school roadster fans basically love stirring the gearbox and keeping the engine regs high through the twisty bits - which is great fun and gets the most performance out of the car, but it's also basically the quickest way to burn through fuel as quickly as possible. Obviously the gear stick waggling is unavailable in an EV roadster but the car is always on song and at full power delivery anyway.

Formula e cars are completely different as they're battling high levels of aero drag as they race. Your EV MG roadster bombing down a b road won't be!

Agree, don't tell my missus, but I just nabbed her car (again ) for a tip run. The route consists of a pretty good mix of clear A and B roads. I wasn't hanging around and the penalty was dropping from what would have been high 3s m/kWh to low 3s. If i'd done that in her Golf, a it wouldn't have gone anywhere near as quickly or cornered so well, and b, it would have doubled the fuel consumption easily. Having said that, I probably wouldn't have bothered in the Golf

[DonkeyApple]

I can see that the point is being missed just a little.

[starsky67]

DonkeyApple said:

I can see that the point is being missed just a little.

I’m not sure it is.

A spirited cross country drive in a performance EV can be every bit as enjoyable as in a petrol powered car. Yes I did just write that (and I’ve got a manual 997.1 amongst others in the the garage to compare).

It’s not the same, but the range of positives are large and such that no one should bemoan the eventual inevitable demise of petrol powered cars.

There are going to be some fun EVs to take their place, no doubt about that.

[DonkeyApple]

starsky67 said:

DonkeyApple said:

I can see that the point is being missed just a little.

I’m not sure it is.

A spirited cross country drive in a performance EV can be every bit as enjoyable as in a petrol powered car. Yes I did just write that (and I’ve got a manual 997.1 amongst others in the the garage to compare).

It’s not the same, but the range of positives are large and such that no one should bemoan the eventual inevitable demise of petrol powered cars.

There are going to be some fun EVs to take their place, no doubt about that.

But you have just missed the point. . I've made zero mention of whether one power plant is fun or not.

[TheDeuce]

DonkeyApple said:

starsky67 said:

DonkeyApple said:

I can see that the point is being missed just a little.

I’m not sure it is.

A spirited cross country drive in a performance EV can be every bit as enjoyable as in a petrol powered car. Yes I did just write that (and I’ve got a manual 997.1 amongst others in the the garage to compare).

It’s not the same, but the range of positives are large and such that no one should bemoan the eventual inevitable demise of petrol powered cars.

There are going to be some fun EVs to take their place, no doubt about that.

But you have just missed the point. . I've made zero mention of whether one power plant is fun or not.

Neither have we - we're talking about the fun available being cheaper to enjoy in EV.

What were you thinking we were talking about

[TheDeuce]

MG Roadster 'revealed' :https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=2031021&utm_campaign=enews%2520forum&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Forums%20Send%20Smart%20List

Under two tonnes and 315/545bhp.

Cue some old farts complaining it has too much power and they should have made it lighter

[andburg]

TheDeuce said:

MG Roadster 'revealed' :https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=2031021&utm_campaign=enews%2520forum&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Forums%20Send%20Smart%20List

Under two tonnes and 315/545bhp.

Cue some old farts complaining it has too much power and they should have made it lighter

no need, I've already done that

[SWoll]

I'm still struggling with who this is for (in the UK at least)

£40k+, MG badge and BEV. So you've immediately ruled out anyone who's budget conscious (MX-5 buyer), badge conscious (BMW/MB/Porsche buyer) or an enthusiast (Lotus buyer)?

Maybe I'm missing something but who else is buying roadsters, or more specifically, this car?

[otolith]

SWoll said:

Maybe I'm missing something but who else is buying roadsters, or more specifically, this car?

Anyone who would like both an electric car and a roadster, given that there is literally no other choice?