Discussion
greggy50 said:
Just a base Model 3 in white, I have already driven a Longe Range and was not a big fan due to the styling and interior as I think both are lacking a bit for the price point. The performance itself was fine it was quick like most electric cars but the rest of the package let it down for me.
It will be interesting to see if my view changes with more time behind the wheel, for me personally the P2 range was more than enough and the 0.3 second difference in the 0-60 time was more than worth that trade off for the far superior styling and interior (all personal opinion of course)
Also a Model 3 LR was for some reason another £150 a month over the P2 which seemed strange when they list at the same price pretty much...
M 3 LR is much cheaper on leasing dot com. It will be interesting to see if my view changes with more time behind the wheel, for me personally the P2 range was more than enough and the 0.3 second difference in the 0-60 time was more than worth that trade off for the far superior styling and interior (all personal opinion of course)
Also a Model 3 LR was for some reason another £150 a month over the P2 which seemed strange when they list at the same price pretty much...
Edited by greggy50 on Tuesday 6th October 13:44
greggy50 said:
Also a Model 3 LR was for some reason another £150 a month over the P2 which seemed strange when they list at the same price pretty much...
Cousin of mine works for a leasing firm and they refuse to do Tesla as Tesla flat out refuses (bulk) discounts apparently, might have something to do with that.Indeed, the performance difference will be negligible in those two.
modeller said:
M 3 LR is much cheaper on leasing dot com.
Upgrade costs for me where as follows (from my standard £6.1k before tax allowance). Not sure where I got the £150 figure from (my apologies) it was £65 more for a LR 3 or £235 for a performance. Model 3 Standard - £125.00
Polestar 2 - £140.00
Model 3 LR - £205.00
E-Tron Technik - £275.00
XC40 Electric - £330.00
Model 3 Performance - £375.00
Model X Performance Ludicrious - £1,000 - LOL
greggy50 said:
modeller said:
M 3 LR is much cheaper on leasing dot com.
Upgrade costs for me where as follows (from my standard £6.1k before tax allowance). Not sure where I got the £150 figure from (my apologies) it was £65 more for a LR 3 or £235 for a performance. Model 3 Standard - £125.00
Polestar 2 - £140.00
Model 3 LR - £205.00
E-Tron Technik - £275.00
XC40 Electric - £330.00
Model 3 Performance - £375.00
Model X Performance Ludicrious - £1,000 - LOL
Polestar 2 all day long from that list. No way I'd pay more for an LR unless I was doing regular big mileages where supercharging would be a big plus and also wouldn't pay £235 more for the Performance despite loving ours.
“Failing to meet its target of 275 miles on a charge, the Polestar 2 is the latest European EV to suffer from EPA range shrinkitis.
Despite being rated at up to 292 miles per charge under Europe's WLTP standards, the EPA reports that customers should count on just 233 miles per charge based on its testing. It also rates the car's efficiency at 366 watt-hours per mile (Wh/mi), leaving it again lagging behind the Tesla Model 3.
The Polestar 2 is hardly the first European EV to come across the pond and lose estimated range. The Porsche Taycan, which was rated at 288 miles per charge according to WLTP standards, was rated at less than 200 miles per charge by the EPA.
And although the WLTP's range estimates appear to err on the side of optimism, the EPA appears to be a little harsh, too. More than a few publications ran "I beat the EPA's estimated range in a Taycan" stories after the EPA's figures were released.
One reason for this might be caution on the part of established manufacturers. Although Telsa's Model 3 (depending on trim) has been rated at more than 300 miles of range, most established brands have chosen not to offer drivers the full battery's range, unlike Tesla. This is being done to protect the battery, they say, and extend its life.
That's an important cause, if it's not just an excuse, because as Polestar showed last week, the bulk of an EV's carbon footprint comes from the manufacture of its battery. Indeed, it takes about 30,000 miles of driving on wind power before an EV becomes greener than an internal combustion car. The longer a battery survives, then, the greener the car.
Still, all the math in the world won't protect Polestar from sticker shock if they can't start playing the EPA's game”
Despite being rated at up to 292 miles per charge under Europe's WLTP standards, the EPA reports that customers should count on just 233 miles per charge based on its testing. It also rates the car's efficiency at 366 watt-hours per mile (Wh/mi), leaving it again lagging behind the Tesla Model 3.
The Polestar 2 is hardly the first European EV to come across the pond and lose estimated range. The Porsche Taycan, which was rated at 288 miles per charge according to WLTP standards, was rated at less than 200 miles per charge by the EPA.
And although the WLTP's range estimates appear to err on the side of optimism, the EPA appears to be a little harsh, too. More than a few publications ran "I beat the EPA's estimated range in a Taycan" stories after the EPA's figures were released.
One reason for this might be caution on the part of established manufacturers. Although Telsa's Model 3 (depending on trim) has been rated at more than 300 miles of range, most established brands have chosen not to offer drivers the full battery's range, unlike Tesla. This is being done to protect the battery, they say, and extend its life.
That's an important cause, if it's not just an excuse, because as Polestar showed last week, the bulk of an EV's carbon footprint comes from the manufacture of its battery. Indeed, it takes about 30,000 miles of driving on wind power before an EV becomes greener than an internal combustion car. The longer a battery survives, then, the greener the car.
Still, all the math in the world won't protect Polestar from sticker shock if they can't start playing the EPA's game”
I think the issue is going to be the type of driver who is looking to move to the Polestar 2.
Unlike city cars with < 200 miles of range that may rarely if ever do log trips and spend most of their time at 40mph or below I'd imagine a lot of P2's are replacing company cars like BMW 3 Series/Audi A4/MB C-Class that spend a lot of time pounding around the UK motorway network at 70mph+?
The relatively poor range and requirement to use third party chargers may catch out a few new owners this winter if they're expecting to see the kind of headline range that has been publicised.
I'n the middle of winter, at 95% charge and motorway speeds it's going to be closer to half the number above I'd suggest?
Unlike city cars with < 200 miles of range that may rarely if ever do log trips and spend most of their time at 40mph or below I'd imagine a lot of P2's are replacing company cars like BMW 3 Series/Audi A4/MB C-Class that spend a lot of time pounding around the UK motorway network at 70mph+?
The relatively poor range and requirement to use third party chargers may catch out a few new owners this winter if they're expecting to see the kind of headline range that has been publicised.
I'n the middle of winter, at 95% charge and motorway speeds it's going to be closer to half the number above I'd suggest?
SWoll said:
To anyone trying to choose I'd recommend picking the one that suits your daily needs best and not worrying about range. If you can't help it then head over to A Better Route Planner and do some test trips to places you actually go, see what the difference is between the two. Most of the time it will be negligible.
aestetix1 said:
That photo really sums it up. You can have a low, efficient but slightly awkward car or you can have a much more comfortable but less efficient one.
To anyone trying to choose I'd recommend picking the one that suits your daily needs best and not worrying about range. If you can't help it then head over to A Better Route Planner and do some test trips to places you actually go, see what the difference is between the two. Most of the time it will be negligible.
Not according to a friend who has test driven one. He said the ride was very firm for a daily.To anyone trying to choose I'd recommend picking the one that suits your daily needs best and not worrying about range. If you can't help it then head over to A Better Route Planner and do some test trips to places you actually go, see what the difference is between the two. Most of the time it will be negligible.
Interesting comparison test of the P2PP and M3P from Bjorn on wet weather motorway range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIavEMAdhiY
Conclusion appears to be that in identical conditions the P2PP could manage 141 miles at an average of 70mph and 98kW peak charging speed vs 184 miles and 135kW for the Tesla.
Appears to validate earlier concerns about winter motorway range on the P2 being < 150 miles which I imagine could catch a few owners by surprise?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIavEMAdhiY
Conclusion appears to be that in identical conditions the P2PP could manage 141 miles at an average of 70mph and 98kW peak charging speed vs 184 miles and 135kW for the Tesla.
Appears to validate earlier concerns about winter motorway range on the P2 being < 150 miles which I imagine could catch a few owners by surprise?
SWoll said:
Interesting comparison test of the P2PP and M3P from Bjorn on wet weather motorway range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIavEMAdhiY
Conclusion appears to be that in identical conditions the P2PP could manage 141 miles at an average of 70mph and 98kW peak charging speed vs 184 miles and 135kW for the Tesla.
Appears to validate earlier concerns about winter motorway range on the P2 being < 150 miles which I imagine could catch a few owners by surprise?
My dog turd leasing company (fleet alliance) might have done me a favour. I've just cancelled my order which i'm a bit gutted about. However I've found a lovely 640d which i'm happy about!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIavEMAdhiY
Conclusion appears to be that in identical conditions the P2PP could manage 141 miles at an average of 70mph and 98kW peak charging speed vs 184 miles and 135kW for the Tesla.
Appears to validate earlier concerns about winter motorway range on the P2 being < 150 miles which I imagine could catch a few owners by surprise?
Maybe waiting for the Mk2 will be a good thing.
SWoll said:
Interesting comparison test of the P2PP and M3P from Bjorn on wet weather motorway range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIavEMAdhiY
Conclusion appears to be that in identical conditions the P2PP could manage 141 miles at an average of 70mph and 98kW peak charging speed vs 184 miles and 135kW for the Tesla.
Appears to validate earlier concerns about winter motorway range on the P2 being < 150 miles which I imagine could catch a few owners by surprise?
This is just making the MG estate look like the real winner. Half the price and maybe the same range/better range as the P2? Am I mad to be temped by the MG over a Tesla? The 220mile range on the MG really surprised me. Could I live with public charging for saving £20k...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIavEMAdhiY
Conclusion appears to be that in identical conditions the P2PP could manage 141 miles at an average of 70mph and 98kW peak charging speed vs 184 miles and 135kW for the Tesla.
Appears to validate earlier concerns about winter motorway range on the P2 being < 150 miles which I imagine could catch a few owners by surprise?
It's strange times in EV land.
SWoll said:
Interesting comparison test of the P2PP and M3P from Bjorn on wet weather motorway range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIavEMAdhiY
Conclusion appears to be that in identical conditions the P2PP could manage 141 miles at an average of 70mph and 98kW peak charging speed vs 184 miles and 135kW for the Tesla.
Appears to validate earlier concerns about winter motorway range on the P2 being < 150 miles which I imagine could catch a few owners by surprise?
That is an interesting test I agree. Tests like these reveal one of the issues with re-purposing an ICE car into being an EV. Quite a few aspects are very good, but particularly in terms of efficiency, there is much more work to do.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIavEMAdhiY
Conclusion appears to be that in identical conditions the P2PP could manage 141 miles at an average of 70mph and 98kW peak charging speed vs 184 miles and 135kW for the Tesla.
Appears to validate earlier concerns about winter motorway range on the P2 being < 150 miles which I imagine could catch a few owners by surprise?
However, it is also worth saying that the Tesla managed much less than 200 miles, which isn't great for a main car.
It's understandable still why many people feel the state of EV technology isn't right for them just yet.
EddieSteadyGo said:
That is an interesting test I agree. Tests like these reveal one of the issues with re-purposing an ICE car into being an EV. Quite a few aspects are very good, but particularly in terms of efficiency, there is much more work to do.
However, it is also worth saying that the Tesla managed much less than 200 miles, which isn't great for a main car.
It's understandable still why many people feel the state of EV technology isn't right for them just yet.
The Tesla used for the test was running mudflaps, non standard wheels and tyres and due to significant aount of supercharging has 6% battery degradation so a new standard car should expect a lot closer to 200 according to Bjorn.However, it is also worth saying that the Tesla managed much less than 200 miles, which isn't great for a main car.
It's understandable still why many people feel the state of EV technology isn't right for them just yet.
SWoll said:
Interesting comparison test of the P2PP and M3P from Bjorn on wet weather motorway range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIavEMAdhiY
Conclusion appears to be that in identical conditions the P2PP could manage 141 miles at an average of 70mph and 98kW peak charging speed vs 184 miles and 135kW for the Tesla.
Appears to validate earlier concerns about winter motorway range on the P2 being < 150 miles which I imagine could catch a few owners by surprise?
That's disappointing especially given it wasn't that cold either. Polestar clearly have some work to do on this and the BMS issues.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIavEMAdhiY
Conclusion appears to be that in identical conditions the P2PP could manage 141 miles at an average of 70mph and 98kW peak charging speed vs 184 miles and 135kW for the Tesla.
Appears to validate earlier concerns about winter motorway range on the P2 being < 150 miles which I imagine could catch a few owners by surprise?
SWoll said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
That is an interesting test I agree. Tests like these reveal one of the issues with re-purposing an ICE car into being an EV. Quite a few aspects are very good, but particularly in terms of efficiency, there is much more work to do.
However, it is also worth saying that the Tesla managed much less than 200 miles, which isn't great for a main car.
It's understandable still why many people feel the state of EV technology isn't right for them just yet.
The Tesla used for the test was running mudflaps, non standard wheels and tyres and due to significant aount of supercharging has 6% battery degradation so a new standard car should expect a lot closer to 200 according to Bjorn.However, it is also worth saying that the Tesla managed much less than 200 miles, which isn't great for a main car.
It's understandable still why many people feel the state of EV technology isn't right for them just yet.
But many who buy a new Tesla will want to keep it long term. And it needs to perform over the long term. So doing much less than 200 miles on a full charge at 70mph when it is raining still isn't good, even if it is better than the current EV competition.
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