What they don't tell you about electric cars

[TheDeuce]

flatlandsman said:

I am not an EV driver I cannot live or afford my life with two cars I have to have one and it will never suit the journeys I make or the hobbies I have.

I am not the target market, the target is a more affluent family person who NEEDS two cars, not desires them, who uses this thing to zip around in and does anything longer in a normal car, they have a drive can charge at home and probably work from home.

This a percentage of the population but the lower end is being totally ignored right now in the pursuit of profit, fair enough, make your money from those that have too much, but I can see the writing on the wall, manufacturers have started extending their production of ICE vehicles and in some ways EV will NEVER be a part of some areas of transport

It is somewhat easier to make money by targeting sales at those that have some.

Although I'm confused, you're not in the 'lower end' as you have hobbies that require mileage so significant an EV couldn't manage?

I have an EV, I share it with my wife and it's our only car. We travel all over the UK in it. We absolutely desire to have an EV, it's easier than a petrol car.

[98elise]

flatlandsman said:

I am not an EV driver I cannot live or afford my life with two cars I have to have one and it will never suit the journeys I make or the hobbies I have.

I am not the target market, the target is a more affluent family person who NEEDS two cars, not desires them, who uses this thing to zip around in and does anything longer in a normal car, they have a drive can charge at home and probably work from home.

This a percentage of the population but the lower end is being totally ignored right now in the pursuit of profit, fair enough, make your money from those that have too much, but I can see the writing on the wall, manufacturers have started extending their production of ICE vehicles and in some ways EV will NEVER be a part of some areas of transport

"People at the lower end" don't buy new cars, so how are they being ignored?

There is another thread about how second hand EV's are falling in value. Sounds ideal for "people at the lower end".

[JustGetATesla]

G-wiz said:

Interesting article in Auto Express this week, that half of EV owners have a diesel or electric car as back-up.

Nice.

I not only have an EV I have a YouTube channel dedicated to it. And I have a 2009 Hyundai i30 petrol as a "back-up" - or so various smart-arse comments say.

Or, in reality, we're a 2-adult family about to become a 3-adult family. I run a consultancy business and wifey runs a retail business from our building (former bank and bank house). So neither of us have a commute so no need for 2 cars. Right?

Wrong. I need a car I can dump at the airport (a couple of trips to London a month). Or a car that wifey can use if I am out shooting YouTube videos (and remember folks - any trip in the Tesla with the camera rolling is a business trip...). Or a car that our almost 17 year old can start to drive.

Hence buying an old snotter. It owes me nothing. I can leave it at the airport without a care because it is pre-dented. Because its a bomb-proof chain cam engine I know it will start on the key despite being left for days in -5 and coming back to it encrusted in ice (inside and out). A car that sometimes sits for 2 weeks unused - why on earth would I have a car I had to pay ongoing costs for when that its its use?

[G-wiz]

Can someone clarify if this picture, it's dash of a 2020 Audi SUV, is showing 100% charged battery with 51 miles range? Or am I reading it wrong?
Or is the yellow line showing around 40% charge in the battery?:

[TheDeuce]

G-wiz said:

Can someone clarify if this picture, it's dash of a 2020 Audi SUV, is showing 100% charged battery with 51 miles range? Or am I reading it wrong?
Or is the yellow line showing around 40% charge in the battery?:

The yellow bar shows battery health. As you can see it's only around 40% so the car will soon be worthless and the whole daft EV experiment will end, another 100 years of ICE incoming.

[G-wiz]

TheDeuce said:

The yellow bar shows battery health. As you can see it's only around 40% so the car will soon be worthless and the whole daft EV experiment will end, another 100 years of ICE incoming.

So what you're saying is that this car come out of the factory in 2020 with theoretical 194 mile range (71 kwh battery), but if you charge this to 100% now, 4 years and 57k miles later, the theoretical range of the car is now 77 miles?

[Nomme de Plum]

G-wiz said:

TheDeuce said:

The yellow bar shows battery health. As you can see it's only around 40% so the car will soon be worthless and the whole daft EV experiment will end, another 100 years of ICE incoming.

So what you're saying is that this car come out of the factory in 2020 with theoretical 194 mile range (71 kwh battery), but if you charge this to 100% now, 4 years and 57k miles later, the theoretical range of the car is now 77 miles?

I think he is probably saying that there is a fault with this particular car.

So what is your point?

Maybe this may assist in informing you that ICEs are not all perfect even from new.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-ne...

Maybe you could post similarly sourced data with regard to EVs.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Sunday 25th February 11:56

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Sunday 25th February 11:57

[julians]

G-wiz said:

So what you're saying is that this car come out of the factory in 2020 with theoretical 194 mile range (71 kwh battery), but if you charge this to 100% now, 4 years and 57k miles later, the theoretical range of the car is now 77 miles?

I think your maths is off a little, it's hard to tell the exact percentage in that screenshot, but let's assume it's 40% that makes the range at 100% to be 125 miles, which is about right for a etron 50 on a cold day doing motorway speeds.

Edited by julians on Sunday 25th February 11:59

[TheDeuce]

julians said:

G-wiz said:

So what you're saying is that this car come out of the factory in 2020 with theoretical 194 mile range (71 kwh battery), but if you charge this to 100% now, 4 years and 57k miles later, the theoretical range of the car is now 77 miles?

I think your maths is off a little, it's hard to tell the exact percentage in that screenshot, but let's assume it's 40% that makes the range at 100% to be 125 miles, which is about right for a etron 50 on a cold day - which I assume this is.

Yea the e-tron 50's have very low range, hence their value has plummeted - there's a thread full of people that don't need much range happily taking them as used car bargains though.

I've no idea what that has to do with this thread though

[M4cruiser]

TheDeuce said:

julians said:

G-wiz said:

So what you're saying is that this car come out of the factory in 2020 with theoretical 194 mile range (71 kwh battery), but if you charge this to 100% now, 4 years and 57k miles later, the theoretical range of the car is now 77 miles?

I think your maths is off a little, it's hard to tell the exact percentage in that screenshot, but let's assume it's 40% that makes the range at 100% to be 125 miles, which is about right for a etron 50 on a cold day - which I assume this is.

Yea the e-tron 50's have very low range, hence their value has plummeted - there's a thread full of people that don't need much range happily taking them as used car bargains though.

I've no idea what that has to do with this thread though

Actually it has quite a lot to do with this thread.
The thread was started as a result of a friend's Leaf showing "full health" 12 bars yet having a faulty battery giving a range of only 40 miles. One cell was dud, causing a £2,900 repair bill. That Audi could be in the same situation, but I don't know how to read the dashboard of an E-Audi. And that's part of the problem, many people (including me) have decades of experience listening to a petrol engine (and looking at the warning lights, particularly the oil light) before deciding to buy, but have no idea how to "listen to" a battery.

[TheDeuce]

M4cruiser said:

TheDeuce said:

julians said:

G-wiz said:

So what you're saying is that this car come out of the factory in 2020 with theoretical 194 mile range (71 kwh battery), but if you charge this to 100% now, 4 years and 57k miles later, the theoretical range of the car is now 77 miles?

I think your maths is off a little, it's hard to tell the exact percentage in that screenshot, but let's assume it's 40% that makes the range at 100% to be 125 miles, which is about right for a etron 50 on a cold day - which I assume this is.

Yea the e-tron 50's have very low range, hence their value has plummeted - there's a thread full of people that don't need much range happily taking them as used car bargains though.

I've no idea what that has to do with this thread though

Actually it has quite a lot to do with this thread.
The thread was started as a result of a friend's Leaf showing "full health" 12 bars yet having a faulty battery giving a range of only 40 miles. One cell was dud, causing a £2,900 repair bill. That Audi could be in the same situation, but I don't know how to read the dashboard of an E-Audi. And that's part of the problem, many people (including me) have decades of experience listening to a petrol engine (and looking at the warning lights, particularly the oil light) before deciding to buy, but have no idea how to "listen to" a battery.

You're right. A big part of the problem is people not being willing to learn about and appreciate something that is new.

I don't know how to fix that problem - those afflicted with it seem perfectly happy, in a simple way.

[Nomme de Plum]

M4cruiser said:

Actually it has quite a lot to do with this thread.
The thread was started as a result of a friend's Leaf showing "full health" 12 bars yet having a faulty battery giving a range of only 40 miles. One cell was dud, causing a £2,900 repair bill. That Audi could be in the same situation, but I don't know how to read the dashboard of an E-Audi. And that's part of the problem, many people (including me) have decades of experience listening to a petrol engine (and looking at the warning lights, particularly the oil light) before deciding to buy, but have no idea how to "listen to" a battery.

I'm assuming you are still willing to learn. Surely we don't eschew modern technology just because it is unfamiliar. Presumably you now use a Smartphone and PC.

BTW there are OBD readers now to assist with diagnostics rather than relying on just sound and an oil light.

Battery health is difficult to measure but I've found the onboard display gives a pretty good indication and is borne out by my experience.

[Uncle boshy]

G-wiz said:

Can someone clarify if this picture, it's dash of a 2020 Audi SUV, is showing 100% charged battery with 51 miles range? Or am I reading it wrong?
Or is the yellow line showing around 40% charge in the battery?:

A number of Etrons of that age are subject to a free recall due to fault lg cells, impacted Hyundai and Jaguar as well. I suspect this is from one with a faulty battery.

[M4cruiser]

TheDeuce said:

ou're right. A big part of the problem is people not being willing to learn about and appreciate something that is new.

I don't know how to fix that problem - those afflicted with it seem perfectly happy, in a simple way.

Yes, willing to learn, and most people are. But you can't learn decades of experience in a short time.
With BEVs I'm about where I was when I bought my third ICE car (about 30 years ago), which turned out to be a dud, but afterwards I realised the signs were there, and I learnt from it.

[plfrench]

G-wiz said:

TheDeuce said:

The yellow bar shows battery health. As you can see it's only around 40% so the car will soon be worthless and the whole daft EV experiment will end, another 100 years of ICE incoming.

So what you're saying is that this car come out of the factory in 2020 with theoretical 194 mile range (71 kwh battery), but if you charge this to 100% now, 4 years and 57k miles later, the theoretical range of the car is now 77 miles?

I think The Deuce is joking hence his tongue in cheek comment about the whole EV experiment being over… surely this is showing 100% power available on the main gauge ie not limited as the charge depletes (typically below 20%) or when it is cold. The smaller gauge is a battery charge so showing circa 35%. The estimated range of 51 miles would appear to have been distorted a bit recently with the weird consumption figures shown 0.6miles in 45 mins!

Edited by plfrench on Sunday 25th February 13:23

[PBCD]

TheDeuce said:

I've no idea what that has to do with this thread though

Presumably because "they" don't tell you about it, whoever the hell 'they' are supposed to be?!

[Nomme de Plum]

plfrench said:

G-wiz said:

TheDeuce said:

The yellow bar shows battery health. As you can see it's only around 40% so the car will soon be worthless and the whole daft EV experiment will end, another 100 years of ICE incoming.

So what you're saying is that this car come out of the factory in 2020 with theoretical 194 mile range (71 kwh battery), but if you charge this to 100% now, 4 years and 57k miles later, the theoretical range of the car is now 77 miles?

I think The Deuce is joking hence his tongue in cheek comment about the whole EV experiment being over… surely this is showing 100% power available on the main gauge ie not limited as the charge depletes (typically below 20%) or when it is cold. The smaller guage is a battery charge so showing circa 35%. This would appear to have been distorted a bit recently with the weird consumption figures shown 0.6miles in 45 mins - perhaps that’s dragged the range estimate down a bit too.

A cynical person may think the poster was trying the "What a load of rubbish EVs are" card and searched out this particular car.

In response posters have come up with a number of possibilities but I wonder if Mr Wiz will give us the actual identity of this particular car?

[Megaflow]

M4cruiser said:

TheDeuce said:

julians said:

G-wiz said:

So what you're saying is that this car come out of the factory in 2020 with theoretical 194 mile range (71 kwh battery), but if you charge this to 100% now, 4 years and 57k miles later, the theoretical range of the car is now 77 miles?

I think your maths is off a little, it's hard to tell the exact percentage in that screenshot, but let's assume it's 40% that makes the range at 100% to be 125 miles, which is about right for a etron 50 on a cold day - which I assume this is.

Yea the e-tron 50's have very low range, hence their value has plummeted - there's a thread full of people that don't need much range happily taking them as used car bargains though.

I've no idea what that has to do with this thread though

Actually it has quite a lot to do with this thread.
The thread was started as a result of a friend's Leaf showing "full health" 12 bars yet having a faulty battery giving a range of only 40 miles. One cell was dud, causing a £2,900 repair bill. That Audi could be in the same situation, but I don't know how to read the dashboard of an E-Audi. And that's part of the problem, many people (including me) have decades of experience listening to a petrol engine (and looking at the warning lights, particularly the oil light) before deciding to buy, but have no idea how to "listen to" a battery.

Your friend comprehensively had their trousers taken down if they spent £2900 fixing a leaf battery. You can’t replace the cells, only modules, a second hand module only cost £90 (see link below) and shouldn’t take much more than a few hundred quid in labour to swap.

You can buy an entire battery for £1500!

Being ripped off in car repairs is not the fault of the car or the technology behind it.

https://evshop.eu/en/batteries/321-module-from-nis...

[M4cruiser]

Megaflow said:

a second hand module only cost £90 (see link below) and shouldn’t take much more than a few hundred quid in labour to swap.

You can buy an entire battery for £1500!

Show me where you can buy an entire battery for £1,500. Is that new or used?
Yes the module was replaced, my understanding is that only one cell in the module was dud but you're right the whole module had to be replaced.

Show me a garage that will do the work! He looked around for a HEVRA registered garage and they said what it means is they can do things like brake pipes on an EV, but won't touch the HV systems.

[TheRainMaker]

Answering the topic, the two things which stand out for me were:

1, The range in the winter was far worse than I thought it would be.
2, Charging curves are not linear.