EV Charger Cable Protection
Discussion
ruggedscotty said:
open pavement, no means to secure or protect a cable or prevent a trip hazard - fit a cable protector, high viz etc. Are you wanting signs etc to be installed as well ?
I get what you are saying. It just feels instinctively wrong to me. (But...I guess as time passes it will be more common & I'll get used to the idea)Just throwing this out there, having been involved with some public safety stuff at work, although I’m no expert with letters after my name! These are probably the kind of questions legal eagles and/or risk assessors will ask, and I have to ask/answer depending upon what I’m doing:
Do you _have_ to trail the cable across the road? No, you _could_ shuffle cars around. But you’ve chosen not to.
Is it your pavement to drape the cable across? No.
Is a cable trailed across the pavement something that could be reasonably be expected on an urban footpath? Not really. So how do you make it “unexpected” and/or reduce/eliminate the risk?
Does the cover reduce the snagging/tripping risk? Does the yellow bit increase visibility? Yes, thus reducing the likelihood of tripping a little although not the severity/outcome: a trip is a trip.
Is the cover secure? No.
Can it be dislodged or removed accidentally or maliciously? Yes (don’t underestimate bored/stupid teenagers)
It’s a 240v cable draped across a public path: how can you ensure the cable is not tampered with, doesn’t get exposed and damaged etc? How could you demonstrate that you took all reasonable measured to ensure the cable was safe?
Have you records of the above assessments so that should the worst happen, the man/woman in the curly wig can see you’ve taken all reasonably practicable measures to reduce the risk to the public?
If a tradesmen (window cleaner, tyre fitter etc) were to drape a cable across the path like that, they too would cover it, plus they’d have public liability insurance and risk assessment paperwork coming out of their ears. You can’t just think “Oh I’d be OK with that, and anyone can see it a mile off”. You have to think reasonably foreseeable worst-case scenario i.e. elderly, visually-impaired etc and work from there.
Do you _have_ to trail the cable across the road? No, you _could_ shuffle cars around. But you’ve chosen not to.
Is it your pavement to drape the cable across? No.
Is a cable trailed across the pavement something that could be reasonably be expected on an urban footpath? Not really. So how do you make it “unexpected” and/or reduce/eliminate the risk?
Does the cover reduce the snagging/tripping risk? Does the yellow bit increase visibility? Yes, thus reducing the likelihood of tripping a little although not the severity/outcome: a trip is a trip.
Is the cover secure? No.
Can it be dislodged or removed accidentally or maliciously? Yes (don’t underestimate bored/stupid teenagers)
It’s a 240v cable draped across a public path: how can you ensure the cable is not tampered with, doesn’t get exposed and damaged etc? How could you demonstrate that you took all reasonable measured to ensure the cable was safe?
Have you records of the above assessments so that should the worst happen, the man/woman in the curly wig can see you’ve taken all reasonably practicable measures to reduce the risk to the public?
If a tradesmen (window cleaner, tyre fitter etc) were to drape a cable across the path like that, they too would cover it, plus they’d have public liability insurance and risk assessment paperwork coming out of their ears. You can’t just think “Oh I’d be OK with that, and anyone can see it a mile off”. You have to think reasonably foreseeable worst-case scenario i.e. elderly, visually-impaired etc and work from there.
Jimbo. said:
Just throwing this out there, having been involved with some public safety stuff at work, although I’m no expert with letters after my name! These are probably the kind of questions legal eagles and/or risk assessors will ask, and I have to ask/answer depending upon what I’m doing:
Do you _have_ to trail the cable across the road? No, you _could_ shuffle cars around. But you’ve chosen not to.
Is it your pavement to drape the cable across? No.
Is a cable trailed across the pavement something that could be reasonably be expected on an urban footpath? Not really. So how do you make it “unexpected” and/or reduce/eliminate the risk?
Does the cover reduce the snagging/tripping risk? Does the yellow bit increase visibility? Yes, thus reducing the likelihood of tripping a little although not the severity/outcome: a trip is a trip.
Is the cover secure? No.
Can it be dislodged or removed accidentally or maliciously? Yes (don’t underestimate bored/stupid teenagers)
It’s a 240v cable draped across a public path: how can you ensure the cable is not tampered with, doesn’t get exposed and damaged etc? How could you demonstrate that you took all reasonable measured to ensure the cable was safe?
Have you records of the above assessments so that should the worst happen, the man/woman in the curly wig can see you’ve taken all reasonably practicable measures to reduce the risk to the public?
If a tradesmen (window cleaner, tyre fitter etc) were to drape a cable across the path like that, they too would cover it, plus they’d have public liability insurance and risk assessment paperwork coming out of their ears. You can’t just think “Oh I’d be OK with that, and anyone can see it a mile off”. You have to think reasonably foreseeable worst-case scenario i.e. elderly, visually-impaired etc and work from there.
Nicely put.Do you _have_ to trail the cable across the road? No, you _could_ shuffle cars around. But you’ve chosen not to.
Is it your pavement to drape the cable across? No.
Is a cable trailed across the pavement something that could be reasonably be expected on an urban footpath? Not really. So how do you make it “unexpected” and/or reduce/eliminate the risk?
Does the cover reduce the snagging/tripping risk? Does the yellow bit increase visibility? Yes, thus reducing the likelihood of tripping a little although not the severity/outcome: a trip is a trip.
Is the cover secure? No.
Can it be dislodged or removed accidentally or maliciously? Yes (don’t underestimate bored/stupid teenagers)
It’s a 240v cable draped across a public path: how can you ensure the cable is not tampered with, doesn’t get exposed and damaged etc? How could you demonstrate that you took all reasonable measured to ensure the cable was safe?
Have you records of the above assessments so that should the worst happen, the man/woman in the curly wig can see you’ve taken all reasonably practicable measures to reduce the risk to the public?
If a tradesmen (window cleaner, tyre fitter etc) were to drape a cable across the path like that, they too would cover it, plus they’d have public liability insurance and risk assessment paperwork coming out of their ears. You can’t just think “Oh I’d be OK with that, and anyone can see it a mile off”. You have to think reasonably foreseeable worst-case scenario i.e. elderly, visually-impaired etc and work from there.
rent an angle grinder or other tools. Cut out a channel under cover of darkness (or just wear hi viz and a beanie and no-one will bother you). mark some random dotted lines on the pavement with whatever rattle can you have kicking about, makes it look official
Cement in one of those metal channels that looks like a drain but has a hinged top
could also superglue a couple of those joke shop fake dog turds either side, that will get peoples attention.
job done.
Cement in one of those metal channels that looks like a drain but has a hinged top
could also superglue a couple of those joke shop fake dog turds either side, that will get peoples attention.
job done.
When running cables in areas where the public are going to walk on them we tend to use rubber mats as they lie much flatter & are less of a trip hazard. The reviews of this item have pictures showing them being used over pavements:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Morland-Protect-Rubber-Ni...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Morland-Protect-Rubber-Ni...
Jimbo. said:
Just throwing this out there, having been involved with some public safety stuff at work, although I’m no expert with letters after my name! These are probably the kind of questions legal eagles and/or risk assessors will ask, and I have to ask/answer depending upon what I’m doing:
Do you _have_ to trail the cable across the road? No, you _could_ shuffle cars around. But you’ve chosen not to.
Is it your pavement to drape the cable across? No.
Is a cable trailed across the pavement something that could be reasonably be expected on an urban footpath? Not really. So how do you make it “unexpected” and/or reduce/eliminate the risk?
Does the cover reduce the snagging/tripping risk? Does the yellow bit increase visibility? Yes, thus reducing the likelihood of tripping a little although not the severity/outcome: a trip is a trip.
Is the cover secure? No.
Can it be dislodged or removed accidentally or maliciously? Yes (don’t underestimate bored/stupid teenagers)
It’s a 240v cable draped across a public path: how can you ensure the cable is not tampered with, doesn’t get exposed and damaged etc? How could you demonstrate that you took all reasonable measured to ensure the cable was safe?
Have you records of the above assessments so that should the worst happen, the man/woman in the curly wig can see you’ve taken all reasonably practicable measures to reduce the risk to the public?
If a tradesmen (window cleaner, tyre fitter etc) were to drape a cable across the path like that, they too would cover it, plus they’d have public liability insurance and risk assessment paperwork coming out of their ears. You can’t just think “Oh I’d be OK with that, and anyone can see it a mile off”. You have to think reasonably foreseeable worst-case scenario i.e. elderly, visually-impaired etc and work from there.
if you look at this - the pavement is not level all the way, there are kerbs and all sorts of other inclusions present on a particular walk from A to B. Do you _have_ to trail the cable across the road? No, you _could_ shuffle cars around. But you’ve chosen not to.
Is it your pavement to drape the cable across? No.
Is a cable trailed across the pavement something that could be reasonably be expected on an urban footpath? Not really. So how do you make it “unexpected” and/or reduce/eliminate the risk?
Does the cover reduce the snagging/tripping risk? Does the yellow bit increase visibility? Yes, thus reducing the likelihood of tripping a little although not the severity/outcome: a trip is a trip.
Is the cover secure? No.
Can it be dislodged or removed accidentally or maliciously? Yes (don’t underestimate bored/stupid teenagers)
It’s a 240v cable draped across a public path: how can you ensure the cable is not tampered with, doesn’t get exposed and damaged etc? How could you demonstrate that you took all reasonable measured to ensure the cable was safe?
Have you records of the above assessments so that should the worst happen, the man/woman in the curly wig can see you’ve taken all reasonably practicable measures to reduce the risk to the public?
If a tradesmen (window cleaner, tyre fitter etc) were to drape a cable across the path like that, they too would cover it, plus they’d have public liability insurance and risk assessment paperwork coming out of their ears. You can’t just think “Oh I’d be OK with that, and anyone can see it a mile off”. You have to think reasonably foreseeable worst-case scenario i.e. elderly, visually-impaired etc and work from there.
the cover will have been designed to meet an agreed specification for providing cable protection, it would not need to be secured, however it would need to meet with the expectations of a suitable cover - british standards.
As far as this is if it meets with the requirements of the council and they are happy with it then that would be a positive. They need to get on the ball with this and give positive instruction on how this has to be done.
The cable and fittings will need to be designed tough and in such a way as they would be difficult to damage, also interlocking with the car so that any disconnection from the car would drop the power off automatically. it may even have some way to lock the plug to the vehicle and not able to unplug without a key.
It does need clarification, but from that id say that at least an effort has been made to protect the cable and make it visable.
I refer to the The man on the Clapham omnibus. it is a hypothetical ordinary and reasonable person, used by the courts in English law where it is necessary to decide whether a party has acted as a reasonable person would – for example, in a civil action for negligence.
This provides a powerful arguement in support of the activities of the person charging thier car and of the reasonable precautions undertaken to protect passers by and third parties. Like a substation it is fenced, but if you climb the fence... likewise the cable is protected the protection is high viz.
its going to be interesting and i wonder if it would actually be good to approach the council here and ask them for guidance. they may even already have proceedures or an agreed method for this.
"its going to be interesting and i wonder if it would actually be good to approach the council here and ask them for guidance. they may even already have proceedures or an agreed method for this."
It would be good if there was an agreed process whereby the property owner could apply to the council to have a channel put in the pavement, with appropriate locking lid, etc.
There is precedence - having a kerb dropped for a new driveway, for example.
However, I guess that might lead to the need to designate the parking space which could be problematic.
It would be good if there was an agreed process whereby the property owner could apply to the council to have a channel put in the pavement, with appropriate locking lid, etc.
There is precedence - having a kerb dropped for a new driveway, for example.
However, I guess that might lead to the need to designate the parking space which could be problematic.
Mikehig said:
"its going to be interesting and i wonder if it would actually be good to approach the council here and ask them for guidance. they may even already have proceedures or an agreed method for this."
It would be good if there was an agreed process whereby the property owner could apply to the council to have a channel put in the pavement, with appropriate locking lid, etc.
There is precedence - having a kerb dropped for a new driveway, for example.
However, I guess that might lead to the need to designate the parking space which could be problematic.
Indeed - cable length may allow some leeway either side of the parking bay. but cable would again be in the kerb area etc. It would be good if there was an agreed process whereby the property owner could apply to the council to have a channel put in the pavement, with appropriate locking lid, etc.
There is precedence - having a kerb dropped for a new driveway, for example.
However, I guess that might lead to the need to designate the parking space which could be problematic.
its going to be interesting to see this develop. and how they do get around it. Something will need to be in place as an enabler rather than having the issue with home charging being a blocker to the uptake
The only real thing I can think of is some sort of curbside post, but then you are in the area of who pays for it, as we all know you might not be able to park outside your own house all the time.
The cable cover would be ok for a temporary solution, but it's soon going to be trashed pulling it in and out every day, getting covered in rain, mud and snow, I would guess most people will just throw the whole lot onto the grass and leave it there, not many will stow it away properly every time. The other thing is theft, if you leave that cover out, it won't be long before it walks
Even a cutting in the path is going to be a problem over time as you will still have to pull the cable up every time as you can't leave a trailing socket in the road.
It truly is a difficult problem to solve.
The cable cover would be ok for a temporary solution, but it's soon going to be trashed pulling it in and out every day, getting covered in rain, mud and snow, I would guess most people will just throw the whole lot onto the grass and leave it there, not many will stow it away properly every time. The other thing is theft, if you leave that cover out, it won't be long before it walks
Even a cutting in the path is going to be a problem over time as you will still have to pull the cable up every time as you can't leave a trailing socket in the road.
It truly is a difficult problem to solve.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
TheRainMaker said:
It truly is a difficult problem to solve.
Except it really isn't is it? Swap the vehicles around when charging is the obvious answer.
However, OP whats to keep three cars with only two offroad parking spaces which are being used by ICE cars.
My thoughts were more towards people who have no "choice" but to park on the road.
The council should offer a fixed price to channel an inch or so into the kerb and lay in some kind of trunking.
There's an opportunity for local authority to make a few quid and provide a service to the public.
Except they won't, because since when did any council make the most of a genuine opportunity to make money and provide a public service?
There's an opportunity for local authority to make a few quid and provide a service to the public.
Except they won't, because since when did any council make the most of a genuine opportunity to make money and provide a public service?
If its a granny charger.....
Have you thought about opening that up and extending the cable ? I know the cable to the car is unique in that it has a few more cores in it than a standard mains cable, but the mains cable could be extended out to the vehicle and a bit more length that way ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmPFqhuOT84
Or this company sells cables with different lengths....
https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/select-your-car/m...
I wonder if the cable could be sourced and the plug on the car opened and a new length of cable installed that suits ?
Have you thought about opening that up and extending the cable ? I know the cable to the car is unique in that it has a few more cores in it than a standard mains cable, but the mains cable could be extended out to the vehicle and a bit more length that way ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmPFqhuOT84
Or this company sells cables with different lengths....
https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/select-your-car/m...
I wonder if the cable could be sourced and the plug on the car opened and a new length of cable installed that suits ?
ruggedscotty said:
If its a granny charger.....
Have you thought about opening that up and extending the cable ? I know the cable to the car is unique in that it has a few more cores in it than a standard mains cable, but the mains cable could be extended out to the vehicle and a bit more length that way ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmPFqhuOT84
Or this company sells cables with different lengths....
https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/select-your-car/m...
I wonder if the cable could be sourced and the plug on the car opened and a new length of cable installed that suits ?
The plus has a temperature sensor in it so should not be used with an extension lead or replaced.Have you thought about opening that up and extending the cable ? I know the cable to the car is unique in that it has a few more cores in it than a standard mains cable, but the mains cable could be extended out to the vehicle and a bit more length that way ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmPFqhuOT84
Or this company sells cables with different lengths....
https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/select-your-car/m...
I wonder if the cable could be sourced and the plug on the car opened and a new length of cable installed that suits ?
aestetix1 said:
ruggedscotty said:
If its a granny charger.....
Have you thought about opening that up and extending the cable ? I know the cable to the car is unique in that it has a few more cores in it than a standard mains cable, but the mains cable could be extended out to the vehicle and a bit more length that way ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmPFqhuOT84
Or this company sells cables with different lengths....
https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/select-your-car/m...
I wonder if the cable could be sourced and the plug on the car opened and a new length of cable installed that suits ?
The plus has a temperature sensor in it so should not be used with an extension lead or replaced.Have you thought about opening that up and extending the cable ? I know the cable to the car is unique in that it has a few more cores in it than a standard mains cable, but the mains cable could be extended out to the vehicle and a bit more length that way ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmPFqhuOT84
Or this company sells cables with different lengths....
https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/select-your-car/m...
I wonder if the cable could be sourced and the plug on the car opened and a new length of cable installed that suits ?
Hants have a handy guide.
https://www.hants.gov.uk/transport/ev-charging-poi...
The cable may only be in place when actually charging, not sure how they would check though.
https://www.hants.gov.uk/transport/ev-charging-poi...
The cable may only be in place when actually charging, not sure how they would check though.
F20CN16 said:
How did this go over the year OP? Any accidents or complaints?
Edit: Oh no, OP has nuked their account!
Perhaps the OP is in the middle of a £5.9 million court case after a one legged, visually impaired, vicar tripped on OP's charging cable? Edit: Oh no, OP has nuked their account!
Edited by F20CN16 on Tuesday 21st December 14:40
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff