E208 GT Line

[TheDeuce]

oop north said:

No experience myself, but chatted to a delivery driver in one of these yesterday. He was very negative about it. Said the range is terrible on the motorway - 100 miles or so. Said he wouldn’t have one if you paid him

All EV's suffer on the motorway. People erroneously believe it's because there's no regen - which is just daft, clearly it's better to maintain momentum than reclaim and restart it... That's basic physics.

It's due to wind resistance. EV's with a smoother aero profile (drag coefficient) do better, but realistically the best to worst drag coefficient between EV's is minimal. They're all going to suffer the faster they go. As do ICE cars to the exact same extent, albeit they have more range to play with so drag coefficient design tends to be less of a focus.

Worse still is a delivery driver on the motorway this time of year because the lower temperature effects range too. Put the two together and you could lose 25%+ range on a full charge journey in pretty much any EV.

As ever, understand the factors that determine range and then choose the EV with a range that suits. So long as the range is sufficient, EV is still a great solution even with the drop off under such conditions.

It's also sort of a non-issue most of the time. The higher capacity chargers tend to be along dual carriageways and motorways so even an EV with modest range can expect to be within reach of several at very least 50kw chargers - each able to add 50 miles of range in the time it takes to have a pee, grab a coffee and catch up on emails or whatever. For anyone that does do endless back to back motorway miles in a hurry... buy a diesel! All technologies have their place

[dmsims]

TheDeuce said:

For anyone that does do endless back to back motorway miles in a hurry... buy a Tesla! All technologies have their place

EFA

[TheDeuce]

dmsims said:

TheDeuce said:

For anyone that does do endless back to back motorway miles in a hurry... buy a Tesla! All technologies have their place

EFA

Fair play. Although for those doing crazy miles in a diesel, I doubt any length of charge break will get them to jump ship until they have to!

Also it requires companies to get used to the idea that they need to buy their sales reps a Tesla. I'm sure the sales reps won't mind and they'll also buy themselves a right to have a break mid day

[page3]

TheDeuce said:

All EV's suffer on the motorway.

All cars suffer on the motorway. It’s just that ICE have bigger range to start with.

• not specifically aimed at you, just an observation.

[ZesPak]

page3 said:

All cars suffer on the motorway. It’s just that ICE have bigger range to start with.

• not specifically aimed at you, just an observation.

It's not their bigger initial range that makes the difference, it's the fact that they carry a LOT more energy (to convert into heat), thus the extra aero doesn't impact range that hard.

[Silenoz]

oop north said:

No experience myself, but chatted to a delivery driver in one of these yesterday. He was very negative about it. Said the range is terrible on the motorway - 100 miles or so. Said he wouldn’t have one if you paid him

We've had one since November 2020. It had to go into the dealers for work in the middle of last year after it randomly stopped charging - it was away for 5 weeks waiting for the parts (we never got told what they did and as it's a lease car we didn't push for an explanation). When it came back the range from a full charge had reduced from over 200 miles to 180 or so, but in reality it has been doing much less. It still shows 180-ish miles when charged but it loses at least 2 miles range for each mile covered, and has been even worse over the last couple of months. When it's 3 years are up, I'll be happy to give it back - although it is the OH's car and she will probably want another electric, but unless there is something with much better real world range (or at least accurate range) I'll be steering her towards something else.

[Otispunkmeyer]

TheDeuce said:

oop north said:

No experience myself, but chatted to a delivery driver in one of these yesterday. He was very negative about it. Said the range is terrible on the motorway - 100 miles or so. Said he wouldn’t have one if you paid him

All EV's suffer on the motorway. People erroneously believe it's because there's no regen - which is just daft, clearly it's better to maintain momentum than reclaim and restart it... That's basic physics.

It's due to wind resistance. EV's with a smoother aero profile (drag coefficient) do better, but realistically the best to worst drag coefficient between EV's is minimal. They're all going to suffer the faster they go. As do ICE cars to the exact same extent, albeit they have more range to play with so drag coefficient design tends to be less of a focus.

Worse still is a delivery driver on the motorway this time of year because the lower temperature effects range too. Put the two together and you could lose 25%+ range on a full charge journey in pretty much any EV.

As ever, understand the factors that determine range and then choose the EV with a range that suits. So long as the range is sufficient, EV is still a great solution even with the drop off under such conditions.

It's also sort of a non-issue most of the time. The higher capacity chargers tend to be along dual carriageways and motorways so even an EV with modest range can expect to be within reach of several at very least 50kw chargers - each able to add 50 miles of range in the time it takes to have a pee, grab a coffee and catch up on emails or whatever. For anyone that does do endless back to back motorway miles in a hurry... buy a diesel! All technologies have their place

Add to this that EVs are pretty efficient all the time, but ICE are typically at their best efficiency on the motorway. So you get this expectation with ice that you’ll get more from it on higher speed driving which doesn’t transfer EVs. Almost the reverse, as ice efficiency is so poor at slow speed transient running and EVs aren’t.

I know some EVs have a “sailing” mode for the motorway, as you say it’s better to maintain momentum at high speed. So if you can glide along using nothing at all then you’re winning.

[Otispunkmeyer]

page3 said:

TheDeuce said:

All EV's suffer on the motorway.

All cars suffer on the motorway. It’s just that ICE have bigger range to start with.

• not specifically aimed at you, just an observation.

ICE gets better at steady state higher speed running. Usually this is why they’re better on fuel on the motorway than in town. But in town it’s because their efficiency with low speed transient operation is quite awful. Where an EV is going to be efficient (like 85%+) nearly all the time, an ICE is likely sub 20% at town driving and moving up into the 30s at highway driving. It’s not that EVs aren’t better, it’s that one improves from a really poor position when getting on the motorway.

People just need to recalibrate their expectations.

[joropug]

Out of interest - I have only been in 3 full EVs, a Tesla Model S P90DL as a passenger, a Model 3 DM as a driver and a E-2008 as a passenger.

The Model S experience was amazing - The driver launched it from a standstill and the instant power sent a shockwave through the cabin it was epic.

The Model 3 I was driving a relatives car so treated it nicely, but I did do a 20-70...ish in it and it was incredible.

The Peugeot felt nippy as a passenger, but the performance off the line was unexpectedly slow - It was in sport mode, it was 'launched' so to speak, but there was a delay of maybe a second or so at least where there was next to zero power as the drivetrain is let off a gentle start. it was on a gentle decline too.

Totally get why it might be this way, it was fine accelerating from say 10mph upwards but 0-10 was so slow it felt like it was rolling forward. I wonder if this is a software feature to preserve the drivetrain life or battery capacity etc - Just seemed totally the opposite of what I expected an Electric car to be like off the line, any ICE car I have owned would have completely smoked it whereas I thought that this was where they are supposed to excel? I wonder if your 208 is the same.

The Peugeot isn't far off Model 3 money in his spec - I think he is bonkers for choosing it especially as its £480pm (£1k down) PCP

[TheDeuce]

joropug said:

Out of interest - I have only been in 3 full EVs, a Tesla Model S P90DL as a passenger, a Model 3 DM as a driver and a E-2008 as a passenger.

The Model S experience was amazing - The driver launched it from a standstill and the instant power sent a shockwave through the cabin it was epic.

The Model 3 I was driving a relatives car so treated it nicely, but I did do a 20-70...ish in it and it was incredible.

The Peugeot felt nippy as a passenger, but the performance off the line was unexpectedly slow - It was in sport mode, it was 'launched' so to speak, but there was a delay of maybe a second or so at least where there was next to zero power as the drivetrain is let off a gentle start. it was on a gentle decline too.

Totally get why it might be this way, it was fine accelerating from say 10mph upwards but 0-10 was so slow it felt like it was rolling forward. I wonder if this is a software feature to preserve the drivetrain life or battery capacity etc - Just seemed totally the opposite of what I expected an Electric car to be like off the line, any ICE car I have owned would have completely smoked it whereas I thought that this was where they are supposed to excel? I wonder if your 208 is the same.

The Peugeot isn't far off Model 3 money in his spec - I think he is bonkers for choosing it especially as its £480pm (£1k down) PCP

I've noticed the same delay in a few EV's. I suspect it's partly down to whatever the traction control thinks the limit of traction is, and also to reduce the initial extremely high torque loading on powertrain components. If the latter, it might not be all that surprising that Peugeot, who look to sell a budget friendly range of cars, have limited torque from standing in order to protect the gearbox, driveshafts, diff - all components where they probably save a good few quid over, for example, the German manufacturers.

In 'dynamic' mode mine is pretty quick off the line if you hold it on the brake and throttle and then release the brake. There is still a delay before full torque is applied though, you can feel the delay. If however the car is rolling at just a few mph and I put my foot down, full torque is applied instantly, and quite violently