Public Charging Points Not Keeping Up With EVs
Discussion
somouk said:
I keep saying, they need to look at better and cheaper ways to have chargers fitted at homes that have no driveway or ones with looped supplies.
Invest there and the public infra won't be as badly needed.
Our infra is still very much lacking compared to demand though. Almost everywhere I go now the chargers are slow ones and full. Free charging needs to be stopped or hefty charges for those sitting idle on a charger to help with this.
How can flat tenants hope to keep their electric car charged up?Invest there and the public infra won't be as badly needed.
Our infra is still very much lacking compared to demand though. Almost everywhere I go now the chargers are slow ones and full. Free charging needs to be stopped or hefty charges for those sitting idle on a charger to help with this.
Vasco said:
Merry said:
Vasco said:
How can flat tenants hope to keep their electric car charged up?
By fitting a metered supply in the car park? Who pays for the installation - councils and/or the private landlords?
It’s not beyond the wit of man to put a f
king cable into a car park and figure out a way of paying for it. CheesecakeRunner said:
Vasco said:
Merry said:
Vasco said:
How can flat tenants hope to keep their electric car charged up?
By fitting a metered supply in the car park? Who pays for the installation - councils and/or the private landlords?
It’s not beyond the wit of man to put a f
king cable into a car park and figure out a way of paying for it. If I lived in a flat and wanted an electric car I think I'd like to know how it's supposed to be achieved.
I've already noticed that significant numbers of younger people I've worked with are less devoted to car ownership.
People who want to live in London or Brighton or Bath don't necessarily see personal car ownership as essential.
Some of these places, it seems pretty hard to get value out of paying £400 a month to lease a car, when driving is horrible and your flat either is your office, or is in walking distance of it.
There is public transport, car hire, uber etc.
Car club systems too.
So maybe the future is mixed.
Some people not having their own car.
The infrastructure catching up.
EVs improving.
Don't forget there are a lot of cars only doing 100 miles a week.
Also some people will make different choices about where they live or work
Buildings will adapt. I hear that some council policies have gone from 'you can't have too much car parking' to 'every dwelling must have an EV charge point.
I think some 'poor' people will be priced out of owning so many cars. Even with IC cars, I think banger-o-nomics is not what is used to be and running a 20 year old car for peanuts will get harder with 2010 onwards cars., in 2030 onwards cities.
It's not the 1980s any more.
People who want to live in London or Brighton or Bath don't necessarily see personal car ownership as essential.
Some of these places, it seems pretty hard to get value out of paying £400 a month to lease a car, when driving is horrible and your flat either is your office, or is in walking distance of it.
There is public transport, car hire, uber etc.
Car club systems too.
So maybe the future is mixed.
Some people not having their own car.
The infrastructure catching up.
EVs improving.
Don't forget there are a lot of cars only doing 100 miles a week.
Also some people will make different choices about where they live or work
Buildings will adapt. I hear that some council policies have gone from 'you can't have too much car parking' to 'every dwelling must have an EV charge point.
I think some 'poor' people will be priced out of owning so many cars. Even with IC cars, I think banger-o-nomics is not what is used to be and running a 20 year old car for peanuts will get harder with 2010 onwards cars., in 2030 onwards cities.
It's not the 1980s any more.
eldar said:
Charge at home, 5% VAT. Charge at a public point, 20% VAT. No idea where a communal point would fit for VAT.
You could tie the meter to your address, which would make it the same as charging it at home I guess.I suspect in most instances it'd be down to whoever owns the building to pay.
Merry said:
eldar said:
Charge at home, 5% VAT. Charge at a public point, 20% VAT. No idea where a communal point would fit for VAT.
You could tie the meter to your address, which would make it the same as charging it at home I guess.I suspect in most instances it'd be down to whoever owns the building to pay.
Vasco said:
Merry said:
Vasco said:
How can flat tenants hope to keep their electric car charged up?
By fitting a metered supply in the car park? Who pays for the installation - councils and/or the private landlords?
I would never get an EV without the ability to charge it at home overnight. The public charging network just isn't ready yet.
OutInTheShed said:
Digging up the roads is 'very expensive' but then cars are very expensive too.
Transport is not a cheap game.
If you put in a charger and it serves a hundred cars every month that is a lot of ££££ people are not spending on petrol.
The big picture/grand scheme of things may include dissuading people from having so many cars.
We've got used to the idea that parking on the public road is not always a free resource, with residents' permits and all that.
So maybe people will get used to the idea that there are real costs in providing chargers and that the motorist will be paying.
How does government raise the revenue for digging up the roads and installing on street chargers though? Transport is not a cheap game.
If you put in a charger and it serves a hundred cars every month that is a lot of ££££ people are not spending on petrol.
The big picture/grand scheme of things may include dissuading people from having so many cars.
We've got used to the idea that parking on the public road is not always a free resource, with residents' permits and all that.
So maybe people will get used to the idea that there are real costs in providing chargers and that the motorist will be paying.
An additional tax in EV purchases would be unpalatable.
OutInTheShed said:
I've already noticed that significant numbers of younger people I've worked with are less devoted to car ownership.
People who want to live in London or Brighton or Bath don't necessarily see personal car ownership as essential.
Some of these places, it seems pretty hard to get value out of paying £400 a month to lease a car, when driving is horrible and your flat either is your office, or is in walking distance of it.
There is public transport, car hire, uber etc.
Car club systems too.
So maybe the future is mixed.
Some people not having their own car.
The infrastructure catching up.
EVs improving.
Don't forget there are a lot of cars only doing 100 miles a week.
Also some people will make different choices about where they live or work
Buildings will adapt. I hear that some council policies have gone from 'you can't have too much car parking' to 'every dwelling must have an EV charge point.
I think some 'poor' people will be priced out of owning so many cars. Even with IC cars, I think banger-o-nomics is not what is used to be and running a 20 year old car for peanuts will get harder with 2010 onwards cars., in 2030 onwards cities.
It's not the 1980s any more.
It’s probably not even the future. If I lived like that then I wouldn’t bother owning a car. It’s just hassle.People who want to live in London or Brighton or Bath don't necessarily see personal car ownership as essential.
Some of these places, it seems pretty hard to get value out of paying £400 a month to lease a car, when driving is horrible and your flat either is your office, or is in walking distance of it.
There is public transport, car hire, uber etc.
Car club systems too.
So maybe the future is mixed.
Some people not having their own car.
The infrastructure catching up.
EVs improving.
Don't forget there are a lot of cars only doing 100 miles a week.
Also some people will make different choices about where they live or work
Buildings will adapt. I hear that some council policies have gone from 'you can't have too much car parking' to 'every dwelling must have an EV charge point.
I think some 'poor' people will be priced out of owning so many cars. Even with IC cars, I think banger-o-nomics is not what is used to be and running a 20 year old car for peanuts will get harder with 2010 onwards cars., in 2030 onwards cities.
It's not the 1980s any more.
blueacid said:
TheRainMaker said:
We work at a fair few 5* hotels out of town, the one I'm at today has a carpark that holds around 300 cars, they have six chargers all of which are in use as we speak. I say in use, but the reality is two chargers are taken up by two Teslas which have been here for over 48 hours and not moved and another space taken up by an electric minibus thing that is not even plugged in...
So from six chargers, they are now down to three.....
A few nights ago they had extension cables out from reception for cars to charge, and four out of the six chargers had cars plugged in but fully charged, this was around 8 pm.
I can see the free for guest to use chargers disappearing very quick and them going for a charge per use system to stop people dumping cars.
Seems like in that situation the solution is a fine or a fee for using those parking bays while not usefully charging.So from six chargers, they are now down to three.....
A few nights ago they had extension cables out from reception for cars to charge, and four out of the six chargers had cars plugged in but fully charged, this was around 8 pm.
I can see the free for guest to use chargers disappearing very quick and them going for a charge per use system to stop people dumping cars.
I'm looking forward to when the chargers are within 'reach' of 2 or perhaps even 4 parking spaces, lessening the risk of the charger being uselessly blocked.
For fast (or reasonably fast ie >50kW) Dc charging at long stay places (ie hotels etc) what we need is a "charger" connected to multiple outlets, where each outlet is in front of a parking sport. You plug in in your bay/spot, go up to the charger, and effectively "get in the queue" so that when the cars charging ahead of you finish, which could be at 2am for example, then your car gets its turn. No more charger blocking......
Funk said:
I would never get an EV without the ability to charge it at home overnight. The public charging network just isn't ready yet.
Depends on you mileage and if there are chargers available where you park the car often for an extended period. if you could charge at work, whilst doing your weekly shop, having a meal etc. then could be perfectly viable?Max_Torque said:
For fast (or reasonably fast ie >50kW) Dc charging at long stay places (ie hotels etc) what we need is a "charger" connected to multiple outlets, where each outlet is in front of a parking sport. You plug in in your bay/spot, go up to the charger, and effectively "get in the queue" so that when the cars charging ahead of you finish, which could be at 2am for example, then your car gets its turn. No more charger blocking......
If people were plugged in at 2AM there would be no point in having a rapid charger. In fact it would just unnecessarily wear out the batteries and waste energy as heat.Just install a load of 7.7kW AC chargers, one per space. If you need load balancing that is also available. Overnight there is plenty of time to charge up. 8 hours would provide around 55kWh to every vehicle.
I see so many EV reviews where people conclude, 'I wouldn't have one'....because of the charging network. Most people though travel very few miles and can charge at home in just a few hours. My wife does 60 miles per day at roughly 3.5 miles per kilowatt, that would be 17 kilowatts. At home that takes less than 3 hours and is easily done over night on cheap rate. I suppose if you did want to do 250+ miles then you might need to plan. Although every time I stop at some services there are always several charging points empty. I am sure there are busy times though, but like every journey, just plan in advance.
David-p5d5m said:
OutInTheShed said:
Digging up the roads is 'very expensive' but then cars are very expensive too.
Transport is not a cheap game.
If you put in a charger and it serves a hundred cars every month that is a lot of ££££ people are not spending on petrol.
The big picture/grand scheme of things may include dissuading people from having so many cars.
We've got used to the idea that parking on the public road is not always a free resource, with residents' permits and all that.
So maybe people will get used to the idea that there are real costs in providing chargers and that the motorist will be paying.
How does government raise the revenue for digging up the roads and installing on street chargers though? Transport is not a cheap game.
If you put in a charger and it serves a hundred cars every month that is a lot of ££££ people are not spending on petrol.
The big picture/grand scheme of things may include dissuading people from having so many cars.
We've got used to the idea that parking on the public road is not always a free resource, with residents' permits and all that.
So maybe people will get used to the idea that there are real costs in providing chargers and that the motorist will be paying.
An additional tax in EV purchases would be unpalatable.
It would not cost that much to run 7kW charging along a pavement.
Do you remember when cable TV was a new thing? they put in a lot of string very cheaply.
It's not going to be a 100% solution for everyone, but it's feasible for some number of millions of cars.
When you look at the current situation with parking in some towns and cities, it is not great, there are too many cars, there are too many cars parked on public roads not being used all that much.
It won't necessarily be a Bad Thing if we move away from the way things are to some extent.
There is also quite a lot of odd bits of land where people could slow charging and parking, but at the moment, people prefer to park on the street for free.
There must be a million lock up garages full of old tat which could go back to having cars in?
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