So who's getting an i3?
Discussion
98elise said:
I've been involved in maintaining electric motors for decades. Maintnenance of them pretty much comes down to checking that the bearings are not noisy once every few months. This is on machinery that runs 12 -24 hours per day, 7 days a week.
So the service schedule pretty much entails walking past them, 
Love it!!!98elise said:
IIRC the service schedule I saw for an EV included checking the valve dust caps 
I've been involved in maintaining electric motors for decades. Maintnenance of them pretty much comes down to checking that the bearings are not noisy once every few months. This is on machinery that runs 12 -24 hours per day, 7 days a week.
24 hours a dayI've been involved in maintaining electric motors for decades. Maintnenance of them pretty much comes down to checking that the bearings are not noisy once every few months. This is on machinery that runs 12 -24 hours per day, 7 days a week.
7 days a week
A normal commute then in technomatt land
Welshbeef said:
Two questions
How will the govt recover the Fuel duty and VED for all the lower rated or zero rated cars?
Secondly what are car companies going to do?
1) Gov revenue... I was working for HMRC in 2005. They started a project to pilot Road charges for trucks but it got canned quickly a) because the cost benefits didn't stack up b) it was political suicide as it signified the thin end of the wedge of an intention to roll out congestion charging and the public are sceptical [sorry psychotic] when it comes to tolls. I think the only way to make it work is to have a big policy announcement scrapping VED and knocking a a fair bit off fuel duty at the same time, just a bit but enough to demonstrate that overall it is only high mileage drivers that are worse off and low mileage drivers end up better off as there no VED to pay. This works well for me as I have a 4x4 that cost loads to tax despite me doing less than 2000 miles a year in it. We should be paying for usage not ownership. How will the govt recover the Fuel duty and VED for all the lower rated or zero rated cars?
Secondly what are car companies going to do?
You get to the point that if say the whole grid was renewable or everyone had their own power source you can't tax cars unless you charge for congestion. Ie the only problem from having a twice jam is that there is a traffic jam. So you end up taxing peak periods to distribute the traffic better. We have enough roads to transport everyone to their place of work, just not all at the same time. That the message The government will need to sell.
Plus it gives those with a lower income chance to drive to work when its cheaper. MPs can then drive a Telsa to the commons at peak times (or hopefully an XJev) as all the plebs will already be at work since 5am ;-)
2) Re - dealer servicing income. Although theres no ICE I think things will still wear out. I had a 330ci once and in 2 years I spent £2k on electricals & non ice parts : temp sensor, rear parking sensors, esp/central locking cpu , suspension bushes. Only 7 years old! Its not like an ICE adds that much to a service apart from oil and occasional coolant change. Oh and plugs. Must of it is safety checks. I'm guessing there might be the odd motor winding failure, hv transistor failure, charger controller failure etc. Even individual battery cells may fail and be picked up at the next plug in diagnosis. Although machine motors run for years, they run at constant speed in a stationary application. Try revving them up and down all day long and driving over potholes - and they bits might wear out a bit faster. As a though I'd see how the previous gen Prius is doing, only 1 battery failure reported... http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/toyota/prius-...
Lastly I see EVs going the same way as PCs. You might have bought your i3 with a 125kw motor and a 22kWh battery pack. But in 3 years time you might be able to update to a 200kw motor (268bhp in old money) and 60kWh battery pack. With a new warranty. I'm sure BMW might even offer a buy back scheme. Its not much work in the shop for a motor or battery swap compared to installing a new engine. And it's certainly cheaper than buying a whole new car. Look at how Telsa are offering different battery packs and the ability to do fast swaps then I see BMW offering this... maybe even doing it at their dealer network to start with. Makes sense - you pop in for a battery swap and end up with a new motor drive for the i3 and leasing an i8 as well. ;-)
Holywow said:
We can be 100% certain where tax is concerned.
The Gov will keep VED and fuel tax we will end up with increased tax on all vehicles EVs and ICEs regardless, maybe a new EV tax.
Currently EV's VED £0 as soon as they become common it'll be £70 pa rising to the same as ICEs if not higher, probably will be higher.
I don't think the taxation gap between electric cars and petrol cars will ever close, personally. I think the government will cover the shortfall by introducing wide-spread road charging for all cars. Why would they want to introduce electric-specific taxes when they can just introduce a new tax on all cars?The Gov will keep VED and fuel tax we will end up with increased tax on all vehicles EVs and ICEs regardless, maybe a new EV tax.
Currently EV's VED £0 as soon as they become common it'll be £70 pa rising to the same as ICEs if not higher, probably will be higher.
MarshPhantom said:
What happens when it runs out of charge? I know the Prius can't be towed, is the i3 the same. That's the real issue for me with EVs, it's not like running out of petrol, if you run out of juice you're screwed.
The petrol engine fires up and you carry on driving, assuming you bought the range extender version. MarshPhantom said:
What happens when it runs out of charge? I know the Prius can't be towed, is the i3 the same. That's the real issue for me with EVs, it's not like running out of petrol, if you run out of juice you're screwed.
Running out of petrol is generally a lifestyle choice like eating KFC. 
Stuartggray said:
What are these pure EVs like when stuck on a motorway for hours because an HVG has jack knifed in a blizzard? How warm do they keep, and for how long?
Someone did the maths of the kW drain by the heater v the kW capacity of the battery and worked out that it would be good for a day or so. Seemed to imply that it would be better to get stuck in an EV than an ICE. Take it to the next step everyone has energy generation at home for free and they decide to work from home most days of the week rather than wasting 2-3 hours on average every day driving back and forth to work.
So question is when then?
I generally do 1 day min work from home a week as is and intend to increase it to 2 days maybe every other week.
So question is when then?
I generally do 1 day min work from home a week as is and intend to increase it to 2 days maybe every other week.
DonkeyApple said:
Stuartggray said:
What are these pure EVs like when stuck on a motorway for hours because an HVG has jack knifed in a blizzard? How warm do they keep, and for how long?
Someone did the maths of the kW drain by the heater v the kW capacity of the battery and worked out that it would be good for a day or so. Seemed to imply that it would be better to get stuck in an EV than an ICE. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Summary - The EV motor isn't doing anything when the car is stationary. The energy drain of having all ancillaries on is a few percent of available battery capacity, maybe using it at the rate of 1 kwh when the battery is likely to be a 20-30kwh pack. Hence you could probably sit out a 24hr traffic jam if need be .... The interior heaters are usually ceramic elements or similar and provide near instant heat. But, as with petrol cars, once your 'tank' is finally empty, you're stuffed, so dont entertain a long distance motorway drive in an EV unless you have topped it up, or can get to any motorway service station most of which now have a range of high powered / fast charge points.
AnotherClarkey said:
DonkeyApple said:
All true but if it had been done by Toyota et al, those with the money to take the risk still wouldn't have done I don't think.
Let's face reality, until the i3 almost every single EV on the market has been the product of non aspirational brands.
That's why I think this product is pivotal. It has the potential to open the door to a change in public perception of EVs.
Of course, this will be the first EV probably bought more by normal functioning humans than extremist loons so if the concept really doesn't work then owners won't hide it with religious rhetoric.
I really do think it is the product that will prove or kill the EV concept as an everyday option.
I think that is a very good summary - if it becomes a desirable thing to have people will forgive a lot of foibles just to drive / be seen driving one. I give it about 6-8 months to get to critical mass then we will know if it opens the doors to electric cars or becomes a footnote in BMW history.Let's face reality, until the i3 almost every single EV on the market has been the product of non aspirational brands.
That's why I think this product is pivotal. It has the potential to open the door to a change in public perception of EVs.
Of course, this will be the first EV probably bought more by normal functioning humans than extremist loons so if the concept really doesn't work then owners won't hide it with religious rhetoric.
I really do think it is the product that will prove or kill the EV concept as an everyday option.
BMW have took the EV concept and turned it from a product designed for vegetarian tree huggers into something that is packaged as being interesting and innovative.
Good for BMW
Personally I'm never one for taking the plunge and would rather wait until they have taken off a bit.
As much as I love cars, I often find myself thinking about how primitive the internal combustion engine is. It won't be long before we look back at the internal combustion engined cars in the same way we look back at those '80's brick style mobile phones.
Stuartggray said:
What are these pure EVs like when stuck on a motorway for hours because an HVG has jack knifed in a blizzard? How warm do they keep, and for how long?
Probably not as good as an x trail with 20 litres of extra diesel in a jerry can, a spade, blankets, a stash of biscuits and crisps, a winch and 2 bags of grit which is my winterhack. Or put it this way... I won't be getting rid of the x trail to buy an EV. It would become the ikea trolley/family holiday car/snow mobile. But I'd expect the i3 to be no worse than a focus/golf sized car. Well depending on how well that rear wheel drive copes in the snow. At least if your stuck you can be smug knowing you heater is being powered by a battery charged up on economy7 which costs about 8 or 9p kWh Vs running an engine to make hit water asa by product which costs about hmmm. No idea.. you get 0mpg... but what about litres per hour at idle?
If you were that worried I'd just carry extra blankets. You wont need a heater under 5 layers and can save the battery to charge your phone all winter.
Toyota have a hydrogen car coming to market next year, not sure the likely price. Tesla have had 3 cars now catching fire when road debris has punctured their batteries, slightly worrying. Good luck to BMW for building this,not my cup of tea,but it will be interesting to see how they fair in real world use.I read an interesting article in a motor trade publication about residual values for EV's,basically stating that despite their initial high cost,they will be treated like normal used cars on the used market,ie, they will suffer monumental depreciation as new buyers will be happy to pay the premium, BUT, used customers will be sceptical and only buy if cheap.We're in for a very interesting 5 years in the automotive world to see which technology is the one adopted,a bit like Betamax and vhs.
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