Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet?
Discussion
LukeBrown66 said:
AS can be seen from many responses on here, a big issue is that if you have one you will back it like it is saving your life in a warzone, dragging you back injured tot he First Aid tent, as you have bitten the bullet and can now not be seen to ever drive anything else again, yet probably still have a toy car and a family car, so are not really helping.
It is a box to be ticked and to talk about with your mates down the local 5 star Michelin.
None of us here are daft, I would not be in this sub section if UI were not interested, I work in the sector and know a bit about it too. But as of this moment, EV only suits a very small section of british community and like ot ir not they are a certain demographic.
if i did 300 miles a day, i probably wouldn't get an EV. if i did 300 miles a day, i'd probably get a different job. for the millions who are in 3 year old or less vehicles via lease, cash purchase or company car and don't do 300 miles a day, they work with not much inconvenience. unless you're that bellend McMaster looking for youtube hits It is a box to be ticked and to talk about with your mates down the local 5 star Michelin.
None of us here are daft, I would not be in this sub section if UI were not interested, I work in the sector and know a bit about it too. But as of this moment, EV only suits a very small section of british community and like ot ir not they are a certain demographic.
Edited by tamore on Tuesday 9th August 19:29
LukeBrown66 said:
AS can be seen from many responses on here, a big issue is that if you have one you will back it like it is saving your life in a warzone, dragging you back injured tot he First Aid tent, as you have bitten the bullet and can now not be seen to ever drive anything else again, yet probably still have a toy car and a family car, so are not really helping.
It is a box to be ticked and to talk about with your mates down the local 5 star Michelin.
None of us here are daft, I would not be in this sub section if UI were not interested, I work in the sector and know a bit about it too. But as of this moment, EV only suits a very small section of british community and like ot ir not they are a certain demographic.
Can you put a number on that small section you suggest Luke, and what you feel the restiction are for the rest?It is a box to be ticked and to talk about with your mates down the local 5 star Michelin.
None of us here are daft, I would not be in this sub section if UI were not interested, I work in the sector and know a bit about it too. But as of this moment, EV only suits a very small section of british community and like ot ir not they are a certain demographic.
Ev's available at varying budgets from a £5k Leaf or £200 a month VW e-UP at the bottom end, millions of houses that have offroad parking, millions where the daily mileage is well below the range of an average EV.
You keep talking about EV only being possible for the fortunate few, and I just don't see it. Of course there are going to be groups with reasons why it wouldn't work but s discussed previously I don't see that their demographic is what you suggest.
I wonder if we're past or post peak 'anti EV rage' at this point?
Obviously in the earlier days there was all sorts of BS about them on these forums, but that seemed to get a little better over the last year or so - most people at least seem to understand that the range issues isn't really an issue for the vast majority. But I fear it's now going to ramp up again as the bans are creeping closer and people are starting to think 'b
ds are actually to take my engine away'...
So perhaps we have yet to see the full extent of baseless complaining and fruitless ranting? The problem is that most of those that will complain are likely too stupid to realise/accept just yet that things really are going to change - but they're bound to at some point. That's going to be a lot of disgruntled serial shed buyers.
Obviously in the earlier days there was all sorts of BS about them on these forums, but that seemed to get a little better over the last year or so - most people at least seem to understand that the range issues isn't really an issue for the vast majority. But I fear it's now going to ramp up again as the bans are creeping closer and people are starting to think 'b
ds are actually to take my engine away'...So perhaps we have yet to see the full extent of baseless complaining and fruitless ranting? The problem is that most of those that will complain are likely too stupid to realise/accept just yet that things really are going to change - but they're bound to at some point. That's going to be a lot of disgruntled serial shed buyers.
LukeBrown66 said:
AS can be seen from many responses on here, a big issue is that if you have one you will back it like it is saving your life in a warzone, dragging you back injured tot he First Aid tent, as you have bitten the bullet and can now not be seen to ever drive anything else again, yet probably still have a toy car and a family car, so are not really helping.
It is a box to be ticked and to talk about with your mates down the local 5 star Michelin.
None of us here are daft, I would not be in this sub section if UI were not interested, I work in the sector and know a bit about it too. But as of this moment, EV only suits a very small section of british community and like ot ir not they are a certain demographic.
It is a box to be ticked and to talk about with your mates down the local 5 star Michelin.
None of us here are daft, I would not be in this sub section if UI were not interested, I work in the sector and know a bit about it too. But as of this moment, EV only suits a very small section of british community and like ot ir not they are a certain demographic.
Edited by tamore on Tuesday 9th August 19:29
TheDeuce said:
The greenest form of power generation overall, including build costs and maintenance is actually nuclear. And it's safe enough at this point to be a sensible choice.
I think offshore wind now beats nuclear, with a footprint of just 6 g/kWh for manufacture, construction and maintenance.Which is incredibly low.
That means that the incremental increase to an EV's footprint for additional wind turbines to keep them charged is just 2 g/mile, i.e. less than 1% of what an ICE car puts out.
It's so low I'm actually questioning it myself, but this link explains it pretty clearly:
https://orsted.com/en/insights/the-fact-file/what-...
GT9 said:
TheDeuce said:
The greenest form of power generation overall, including build costs and maintenance is actually nuclear. And it's safe enough at this point to be a sensible choice.
I think offshore wind now beats nuclear, with a footprint of just 6 g/kWh for manufacture, construction and maintenance.Which is incredibly low.
That means that the incremental increase to an EV's footprint for additional wind turbines to keep them charged is just 2 g/mile, i.e. less than 1% of what an ICE car puts out.
It's so low I'm actually questioning it myself, but this link explains it pretty clearly:
https://orsted.com/en/insights/the-fact-file/what-...
Yes, EV efficiency coupled with greener forms of power generation makes ICE and burning of fossil fuels look like a joke by comparison. I'd never complain at a guy that hangs onto ICE for for fun or out of a feeling of need, but it's important to be realistic and I simply don't understand the people that even attempt to assemble an argument for their old shed somehow being greener than EV
whirlybird said:
Yahoo News UKYahoo News UK
Government preparing for ‘organised blackouts’ this winter in energy shortage ‘worst case scenario’
Is that relevant to this thread...?Government preparing for ‘organised blackouts’ this winter in energy shortage ‘worst case scenario’
Also a non story, the government (civil service) always maintain plans to deal with such scenarios. They have contingency plans for just about every scenario - it's just the politicians that on the day to day aren't aware of the plans that are in place.
TheDeuce said:
I wonder if we're past or post peak 'anti EV rage' at this point?
Obviously in the earlier days there was all sorts of BS about them on these forums, but that seemed to get a little better over the last year or so - most people at least seem to understand that the range issues isn't really an issue for the vast majority. But I fear it's now going to ramp up again as the bans are creeping closer and people are starting to think 'bds are actually to take my engine away'...
So perhaps we have yet to see the full extent of baseless complaining and fruitless ranting? The problem is that most of those that will complain are likely too stupid to realise/accept just yet that things really are going to change - but they're bound to at some point. That's going to be a lot of disgruntled serial shed buyers.
This is it, every major manufacturer will have a big red line running through their plan in 2035. In the years preceding this they will have a fleet CO2 calculator where they can carefully add all their volumes and work out fines and allowances. Obviously in the earlier days there was all sorts of BS about them on these forums, but that seemed to get a little better over the last year or so - most people at least seem to understand that the range issues isn't really an issue for the vast majority. But I fear it's now going to ramp up again as the bans are creeping closer and people are starting to think 'b
ds are actually to take my engine away'...So perhaps we have yet to see the full extent of baseless complaining and fruitless ranting? The problem is that most of those that will complain are likely too stupid to realise/accept just yet that things really are going to change - but they're bound to at some point. That's going to be a lot of disgruntled serial shed buyers.
These numbers will get bigger and bigger the closer they are to that deadline (unless they have a high BEV mix or they’re Tesla/NIO etc). Combustion engines will be done long before that date and those decisions were made probably up to 5 years ago so they can plan strategic partnerships/build battery factories/balance supply across local source/make vs buy. Most major OEMs are switching over or are about to switchover production to non-fossil fueled activities.
The regs are in place, the infrastructure is being built, the model ranges are rolling out. Still some on PH are wondering about how to do 400 miles in one go and how an EV will mean they have to have a loo break or trying to argue the toss about CO2 emissions on their shed. Waste of breath and an irrelevance - the decisions have long been taken.
D4rez said:
TheDeuce said:
I wonder if we're past or post peak 'anti EV rage' at this point?
Obviously in the earlier days there was all sorts of BS about them on these forums, but that seemed to get a little better over the last year or so - most people at least seem to understand that the range issues isn't really an issue for the vast majority. But I fear it's now going to ramp up again as the bans are creeping closer and people are starting to think 'bds are actually to take my engine away'...
So perhaps we have yet to see the full extent of baseless complaining and fruitless ranting? The problem is that most of those that will complain are likely too stupid to realise/accept just yet that things really are going to change - but they're bound to at some point. That's going to be a lot of disgruntled serial shed buyers.
This is it, every major manufacturer will have a big red line running through their plan in 2035. In the years preceding this they will have a fleet CO2 calculator where they can carefully add all their volumes and work out fines and allowances. Obviously in the earlier days there was all sorts of BS about them on these forums, but that seemed to get a little better over the last year or so - most people at least seem to understand that the range issues isn't really an issue for the vast majority. But I fear it's now going to ramp up again as the bans are creeping closer and people are starting to think 'b
ds are actually to take my engine away'...So perhaps we have yet to see the full extent of baseless complaining and fruitless ranting? The problem is that most of those that will complain are likely too stupid to realise/accept just yet that things really are going to change - but they're bound to at some point. That's going to be a lot of disgruntled serial shed buyers.
These numbers will get bigger and bigger the closer they are to that deadline (unless they have a high BEV mix or they’re Tesla/NIO etc). Combustion engines will be done long before that date and those decisions were made probably up to 5 years ago so they can plan strategic partnerships/build battery factories/balance supply across local source/make vs buy. Most major OEMs are switching over or are about to switchover production to non-fossil fueled activities.
The regs are in place, the infrastructure is being built, the model ranges are rolling out. Still some on PH are wondering about how to do 400 miles in one go and how an EV will mean they have to have a loo break or trying to argue the toss about CO2 emissions on their shed. Waste of breath and an irrelevance - the decisions have long been taken.
For those that do need to drive several hundred miles with a family of 7 whilst towing a boat and then have to turn round after 3 minutes of sailing and immediately return home... The world doesn't want you to do that anymore - your obscure 'leisure' needs are not going to be a deciding factor when governments decide the best direction for the masses for the next several decades.
TheDeuce said:
Is that relevant to this thread...?
Also a non story, the government (civil service) always maintain plans to deal with such scenarios. They have contingency plans for just about every scenario - it's just the politicians that on the day to day aren't aware of the plans that are in place.
As I started this thread then YES !!!!Also a non story, the government (civil service) always maintain plans to deal with such scenarios. They have contingency plans for just about every scenario - it's just the politicians that on the day to day aren't aware of the plans that are in place.
The GuardianThe Guardian
Tesla’s self-driving technology fails to detect children in the road, tests find
Edward Helmore
Tue, 9 August 2022, 6:08 pm
<span>Photograph: Sjoerd van der Wal/Getty Images</span>
Photograph: Sjoerd van der Wal/Getty Images
A safe-technology advocacy group issued claimed on Tuesday that Tesla’s full self-driving software represents a potentially lethal threat to child pedestrians, the latest in a series of claims and investigations into the technology to hit the world’s leading electric carmaker.
According to a safety test conducted by the Dawn Project, the latest version of Tesla Full Self-Driving (FSD) Beta software repeatedly hit a stationary, child-sized mannequin in its path. The claims that the technology apparently has trouble recognizing children form part of an ad campaign urging the public to pressure Congress to ban Tesla’s auto-driving technology.
In several tests, a professional test driver found that the software – released in June – failed to detect the child-sized figure at an average speed of 25mph and the car then hit the mannequin. The Dawn Project’s founder, Dan O’Dowd, called the results “deeply disturbing.”
Company chief “Elon Musk says Tesla’s Full Self-Driving software is ‘amazing,’” O’Dowd added. “It’s not. It’s a lethal threat to all Americans.
“Over 100,000 Tesla drivers are already using the car’s Full Self-Driving mode on public roads, putting children at great risk in communities across the country.”
O’Dowd argued that the test results show the need to prohibit self-driving cars until Tesla proves the vehicles “will not mow down children in crosswalks”.
Tesla has repeatedly hit back at claims that its self-driving technology is too underdeveloped to guarantee the safety of either the car’s occupants or other road users.
O’Dowd has drawn accusations that he is little more than a competitor to Tesla because his company bills itself as an expert in making particular software used in automated driving systems. O’Dowd insists his Green Hills software doesn’t compete with Tesla, saying it doesn’t make self-driving cars. But he has acknowledged some car companies use his company’s software for certain components.
After a fiery crash in Texas in 2021 that killed two, Musk tweeted that the autopilot feature, a less sophisticated version of FSD, was not switched on at the moment of collision.
At the company’s shareholder meeting earlier this month Musk said that Full Self-Driving has greatly improved, and he expected to make the software available by the end of the year to all owners that request it. But questions about its safety continue to mount.
In June, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), said it was expanding an investigation into 830,000 Tesla cars across all four current model lines. The expansion came after analysis of a number of accidents revealed patterns in the car’s performance and driver behavior.
The NHTSA said the widened investigation would aim to examine the degree to which Tesla’s autopilot technology and associated systems “may exacerbate human factors or behavioral safety risks by undermining the effectiveness of the driver’s supervision”.
A second NHTSA investigation is also under way to determine if the removal of the forward-looking radar sensor on some newer Teslas is causing the vehicles to apply their brakes for no reason, which is called “phantom braking” and can lead to wrecks.
Since 2016, the agency has investigated 30 crashes involving Teslas equipped with automated driving systems, 19 of them fatal. NHTSA’s Office of Defects Investigation is also looking at the company’s autopilot technology in at least 11 crashes where Teslas hit emergency vehicles.
Many such wrecks aren’t investigated by the NHTSA. And in nearly 400 crashes involving cars with driver-assist systems reported by automakers between July 2021 and this past May, more Teslas were involved than all other manufacturers combined.
Tesla’s self-driving technology fails to detect children in the road, tests find
Edward Helmore
Tue, 9 August 2022, 6:08 pm
<span>Photograph: Sjoerd van der Wal/Getty Images</span>
Photograph: Sjoerd van der Wal/Getty Images
A safe-technology advocacy group issued claimed on Tuesday that Tesla’s full self-driving software represents a potentially lethal threat to child pedestrians, the latest in a series of claims and investigations into the technology to hit the world’s leading electric carmaker.
According to a safety test conducted by the Dawn Project, the latest version of Tesla Full Self-Driving (FSD) Beta software repeatedly hit a stationary, child-sized mannequin in its path. The claims that the technology apparently has trouble recognizing children form part of an ad campaign urging the public to pressure Congress to ban Tesla’s auto-driving technology.
In several tests, a professional test driver found that the software – released in June – failed to detect the child-sized figure at an average speed of 25mph and the car then hit the mannequin. The Dawn Project’s founder, Dan O’Dowd, called the results “deeply disturbing.”
Company chief “Elon Musk says Tesla’s Full Self-Driving software is ‘amazing,’” O’Dowd added. “It’s not. It’s a lethal threat to all Americans.
“Over 100,000 Tesla drivers are already using the car’s Full Self-Driving mode on public roads, putting children at great risk in communities across the country.”
O’Dowd argued that the test results show the need to prohibit self-driving cars until Tesla proves the vehicles “will not mow down children in crosswalks”.
Tesla has repeatedly hit back at claims that its self-driving technology is too underdeveloped to guarantee the safety of either the car’s occupants or other road users.
O’Dowd has drawn accusations that he is little more than a competitor to Tesla because his company bills itself as an expert in making particular software used in automated driving systems. O’Dowd insists his Green Hills software doesn’t compete with Tesla, saying it doesn’t make self-driving cars. But he has acknowledged some car companies use his company’s software for certain components.
After a fiery crash in Texas in 2021 that killed two, Musk tweeted that the autopilot feature, a less sophisticated version of FSD, was not switched on at the moment of collision.
At the company’s shareholder meeting earlier this month Musk said that Full Self-Driving has greatly improved, and he expected to make the software available by the end of the year to all owners that request it. But questions about its safety continue to mount.
In June, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), said it was expanding an investigation into 830,000 Tesla cars across all four current model lines. The expansion came after analysis of a number of accidents revealed patterns in the car’s performance and driver behavior.
The NHTSA said the widened investigation would aim to examine the degree to which Tesla’s autopilot technology and associated systems “may exacerbate human factors or behavioral safety risks by undermining the effectiveness of the driver’s supervision”.
A second NHTSA investigation is also under way to determine if the removal of the forward-looking radar sensor on some newer Teslas is causing the vehicles to apply their brakes for no reason, which is called “phantom braking” and can lead to wrecks.
Since 2016, the agency has investigated 30 crashes involving Teslas equipped with automated driving systems, 19 of them fatal. NHTSA’s Office of Defects Investigation is also looking at the company’s autopilot technology in at least 11 crashes where Teslas hit emergency vehicles.
Many such wrecks aren’t investigated by the NHTSA. And in nearly 400 crashes involving cars with driver-assist systems reported by automakers between July 2021 and this past May, more Teslas were involved than all other manufacturers combined.
whirlybird said:
Yahoo News UKYahoo News UK
Government preparing for ‘organised blackouts’ this winter in energy shortage ‘worst case scenario’
Unless the power is going to stay off indefinitely it will have to come on at some point which the car will then just charge up again. Government preparing for ‘organised blackouts’ this winter in energy shortage ‘worst case scenario’
As mentioned above this will disrupt fuel supplies as well.
GT9 said:
OP getting desperate.
Thread is gasping for air, dragging it along like a sick dog now.
Go Whirlybird!
Started with a fixed agenda.Thread is gasping for air, dragging it along like a sick dog now.
Go Whirlybird!
Tried to justify their position with questionable logic.
Unwilling to listen to reason.
Pastes news articles not relevant to their own argument.
Inexperienced in the very subject they've brought up.
Distraction technique when it all started to go wrong.
Classic PH. OP is perhaps just the first letter of each of the above sentences, it would explain a lot.
C.A.R. said:
Started with a fixed agenda.
Tried to justify their position with questionable logic.
Unwilling to listen to reason.
Pastes news articles not relevant to their own argument.
Inexperienced in the very subject they've brought up.
Distraction technique when it all started to go wrong.
Classic PH. OP is perhaps just the first letter of each of the above sentences, it would explain a lot.
OP has inspired 14 pages of debate so he can't be completely stupid...Tried to justify their position with questionable logic.
Unwilling to listen to reason.
Pastes news articles not relevant to their own argument.
Inexperienced in the very subject they've brought up.
Distraction technique when it all started to go wrong.
Classic PH. OP is perhaps just the first letter of each of the above sentences, it would explain a lot.
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