Buy an EV they said...
Discussion
Lincsls1 said:
The break even point wasn't/isn't referring to £'s, its referring to the difference in carbon footprint in the manufacturing process.
Oh yes. That footprint we all spent so long considering on every car we've ever bought. It was the big deciding factor when I had my Vanquish, it was either that or a bicycle made of vegetables. I spent ages looking at the difference.
Pica-Pica said:
I am pleased that you think that all it costs you is charging and tyre wear, even though it takes ten years for electric cars to break even compared to petrol cars.
Lincsls1 said:
The break even point wasn't/isn't referring to £'s, its referring to the difference in carbon footprint in the manufacturing process.
hammo19 said:
It’s gonna be fun when the majority get electric cars and we are all fighting for that illusive charging station at the services......hope the security guards have been trained in civil unrest.
Why do you think the number of charging points won't continue to increase to keep up with demand?rscott said:
Why do you think the number of charging points won't continue to increase to keep up with demand?
I was reading recently that it will be impossible to keep up with demand - thousands more need to be built, more than are planned. On top of this is a (probably) average 35 minute minimum charge time.I charge mine overnight and have an easy 250 mile range - it's enough for 99.9% of my usage. But I doubt I'm typical - I have a driveway for a start.
NDA said:
I was reading recently that it will be impossible to keep up with demand - thousands more need to be built, more than are planned. On top of this is a (probably) average 35 minute minimum charge time.
I charge mine overnight and have an easy 250 mile range - it's enough for 99.9% of my usage. But I doubt I'm typical - I have a driveway for a start.
Only something 30% of the pop don't have offroad parking... so you're in the majority, not the minority.I charge mine overnight and have an easy 250 mile range - it's enough for 99.9% of my usage. But I doubt I'm typical - I have a driveway for a start.
We've also got the general statistic that the average "journey" is something like 9 miles (8.4 if you're driving alone). So most (70%) of people can charge at home, and most journeys don't go far enough to need charging elsewhere.
Perhaps we're conflating busy motorway service car parks with people that if they were in an EV would need to charge? When I had an ICE I used to stop at the services on practically every long journey. I -never- filled with or needed fuel (I'd have been daft to plan to as it's so expensive). Judging by the number of cars leaving not via the petrol routes I've seen, I'd suggest that's the case for a good many people stopping. And what I'm saying by that is, just because we see busy services now, doesn't mean if they were all in an EV they'd need to charge.
Yes, we still need to roll out lots more chargers. But I don't see it as quite as bad a situation as it could be.
ZesPak said:
As someone who just returned from a 5500km through Italy, I don't understand this thread 
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You do have to put up with the interior of an '80s Transit and do an offering to our lord and savior Muskios once in a while but it's worth it
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I wouldn't admit that you've just been touring Europe in a rape van. .You do have to put up with the interior of an '80s Transit and do an offering to our lord and savior Muskios once in a while but it's worth it
.NDA said:
Yebbut.....
People are moving to EV's and therefore the tax income for fuel is going to dry up.
My EV costs £360 in volts for 12,000 miles. My V8 costs £4,200 a year for the same mileage. If I buy volts instead of petrol, I am depriving the exchequer of thousands of pounds a year. That's why road pricing is inevitable as the government needs our money for important stuff. Apparently.
With a saving of £4,000 a year on fuel, £1,000 annual service saving, £600 a year road tax annual saving - the mythical 'break even point' will come a lot sooner than 10 years. Assuming this point is the difference between the purchase price of an EV Vs an equivalent ICE engine? In fact in 10 years, the car will have paid for itself completely.
Interesting numbers.People are moving to EV's and therefore the tax income for fuel is going to dry up.
My EV costs £360 in volts for 12,000 miles. My V8 costs £4,200 a year for the same mileage. If I buy volts instead of petrol, I am depriving the exchequer of thousands of pounds a year. That's why road pricing is inevitable as the government needs our money for important stuff. Apparently.
With a saving of £4,000 a year on fuel, £1,000 annual service saving, £600 a year road tax annual saving - the mythical 'break even point' will come a lot sooner than 10 years. Assuming this point is the difference between the purchase price of an EV Vs an equivalent ICE engine? In fact in 10 years, the car will have paid for itself completely.
Have you considered the depreciation element ?
NDA said:
Lincsls1 said:
The break even point wasn't/isn't referring to £'s, its referring to the difference in carbon footprint in the manufacturing process.
Oh yes. That footprint we all spent so long considering on every car we've ever bought. It was the big deciding factor when I had my Vanquish, it was either that or a bicycle made of vegetables. I spent ages looking at the difference.
https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2019/...
rscott said:
Why do you think the number of charging points won't continue to increase to keep up with demand?
No. At the moment you have a privately funded charge network, either companies are paying for it or you the customer are, in the Tesla Model S you paid for the car and they paid for the supercharge network. You buy one because it sidesteps the problem. The government has a huge income from ICE cars, trucks, boats, planes all consuming fuel that they can tax. EVs are still a small enough sector of the car market, the same as convertibles that them paying zero road tax, fuel tax and still using the roads is politically favourable.
If the government want to dig up your street to put charge points in every parking space then who is paying for it? At the moment it costs them nothing for private companies to do this so why pay for it?
NDA said:
Oilchange said:
People already pay per mile, the more fuel you use the more tax you pay to replace it.
Yebbut.....People are moving to EV's and therefore the tax income for fuel is going to dry up.
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Edited by Oilchange on Wednesday 4th August 12:00
It's going to be either camera's/detectors along the road or some sort of GPS box.
Probably the former as it's beneficial for multiple reasons and harder to circumvent.
I don't think petrol duties/taxes will drop in any way. It's always been a cash cow, as mentioned: taxes on petrol were great as you:
All we can hope is that that tax is going down for example for ICE weekend toys or the like, so that you're "only" taxed twice on those: once in fuel duties and once for road use.
I've never understood what we call "traffic taxes" (the yearly tax you pay for basically having a car with a plate on). Here in BE/NL, it makes owning a vaguely interesting car prohibitively expensive.
Another interest topic will be the consumption of EV's. Some of the most efficient ones (Ioniq, Model 3) are now all just under the "EV" bracket, together with the likes of the e-tron/Tayan. I wonder how they are going to come down on that, if they are.
Probably the former as it's beneficial for multiple reasons and harder to circumvent.
I don't think petrol duties/taxes will drop in any way. It's always been a cash cow, as mentioned: taxes on petrol were great as you:
- Tax people who use the roads more
- Tax vehicles that use more fuel = pollute more
All we can hope is that that tax is going down for example for ICE weekend toys or the like, so that you're "only" taxed twice on those: once in fuel duties and once for road use.
I've never understood what we call "traffic taxes" (the yearly tax you pay for basically having a car with a plate on). Here in BE/NL, it makes owning a vaguely interesting car prohibitively expensive.
Another interest topic will be the consumption of EV's. Some of the most efficient ones (Ioniq, Model 3) are now all just under the "EV" bracket, together with the likes of the e-tron/Tayan. I wonder how they are going to come down on that, if they are.
granada203028 said:
Obviously governments should have raised taxes on domestic energy, aviation etc in proportion but haven't. And the UK disproportionately taxes motoring compared to most other countries.
Will be difficult for any UK Gov to justify to its voters that they are going to increase the cost of domestic electricity to pay for the income lost from the car drivers.Using VED to cover the £30Bn lost would mean increasing it by about 5 to 6 times its current ICE average amount and would be seen as 'unfair' by many doing lower mileages.
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