Hydrogen is the future, not BEVs?

[GT9]

Oil companies are reading this thread, who knew.

Just a few days after discussing that hydrogen and punters are not good a mix, Shell have decided to permanently close all remaining light-duty H2 filling stations in California.

I wonder if I should ask for a pay rise from big lithium....

[TheDeuce]

GT9 said:

Oil companies are reading this thread, who knew.

Just a few days after discussing that hydrogen and punters are not good a mix, Shell have decided to permanently close all remaining light-duty H2 filling stations in California.

I wonder if I should ask for a pay rise from big lithium....

Given the closure rate of hydrogen filling stations around the world, there must be groups of very angry and vocal car owners that are left with something basically worthless that they can't even make use of themselves.

I'm amazed we don't hear more from such people - perhaps they're simply too embarrassed to speak up..

[GT9]

TheDeuce said:

I'm amazed we don't hear more from such people - perhaps they're simply too embarrassed to speak up..

We've all heard how high pitched we sound when breathing out helium.

Wait until you hear it with hydrogen!

Or maybe not, probably just sends all the dogs running for cover.

[TheDeuce]

GT9 said:

TheDeuce said:

I'm amazed we don't hear more from such people - perhaps they're simply too embarrassed to speak up..

We've all heard how high pitched we sound when breathing out helium.

Wait until you hear it with hydrogen!

Or maybe not, probably just sends all the dogs running for cover.

I genuinely think the silence is because... Well, when you've spent 50k on a slow electric car that can only do 100 miles on a tank of H2, then you realise there is more than 100 miles to the next filling station... What is there to say other than "I've foolishly wasted all my money"?

And people don't like to say that, so silence will remain

[hidetheelephants]

Evanivitch said:

GT9 said:

And so it begins...

https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/south-ko...

Despite this: "the country’s plans suffered a setback in May 2019 when a hydrogen storage tank exploded at a government research project in the city of Gangneung, killing two people and injuring six, while destroying a complex about half the size of a football pitch."

I'm just relieved the UK is not being forced into a corner to use hydrogen for everything under the sun, as we are seeing for Japan and South Korea.

Unfortunately something even bigger will eventually happen. A bit like Liam Neeson, it will never stop trying to kill you and has a 'unique set of skills' with which to do it.

Japan has a huge shortage of domestic energy resources and a lack of friendly neighbours! So they have to import energy, and that's going to be hydrogen in some form or another!

They could switch their mothballed nukes back on. Probably a good idea to build some new ones too.

[GT9]

TheDeuce said:

I genuinely think the silence is because... Well, when you've spent 50k on a slow electric car that can only do 100 miles on a tank of H2, then you realise there is more than 100 miles to the next filling station... What is there to say other than "I've foolishly wasted all my money"?

And people don't like to say that, so silence will remain

100 miles?
The Miria is more like 300-400 miles depending on which gen.
I can totally understand concerns about cold-weather EV range, the Mirai offers something that can alleviate those concerns.
Although I believe the cold weather filling experience can get a bit interesting with stuck/frozen nozzles, etc.
And to be totally transparent, there are also instances of EV cables frozen in the the charging port.
Problem is, Toyota themselves will most likely have solved the cold-weather EV range issue within 5 years.

[DonkeyApple]

TheDeuce said:

GT9 said:

Oil companies are reading this thread, who knew.

Just a few days after discussing that hydrogen and punters are not good a mix, Shell have decided to permanently close all remaining light-duty H2 filling stations in California.

I wonder if I should ask for a pay rise from big lithium....

Given the closure rate of hydrogen filling stations around the world, there must be groups of very angry and vocal car owners that are left with something basically worthless that they can't even make use of themselves.

I'm amazed we don't hear more from such people - perhaps they're simply too embarrassed to speak up..

There's only 4 of them and their carers might not let them use social media.

[98elise]

TheDeuce said:

GT9 said:

TheDeuce said:

I'm amazed we don't hear more from such people - perhaps they're simply too embarrassed to speak up..

We've all heard how high pitched we sound when breathing out helium.

Wait until you hear it with hydrogen!

Or maybe not, probably just sends all the dogs running for cover.

I genuinely think the silence is because... Well, when you've spent 50k on a slow electric car that can only do 100 miles on a tank of H2, then you realise there is more than 100 miles to the next filling station... What is there to say other than "I've foolishly wasted all my money"?

And people don't like to say that, so silence will remain

I didn't think anyone paid 50k. That might be the sticker price but in the US they were practically giving them away.

Even worse for the manufacturers. The build cost is way more than 50k each.

[CrgT16]

Hydrogen is a no go for cars. BEV will lead the way but I think there will also be a concerted effort to keep cars out of the roads. The era of the motorist has passed its peak and the path will be for less cars, more remote working and more public transport… in theory that is as it won’t be in my lifetime.

The challenge we face is energetic first then climate control second. Until we can achieve clean and plentiful energy we are just on the countdown to extinction. Add to that all the wars etc it’s just a grim long term future for human kind.

I am a petrolhead live the engines, etc but I am now inclined to accept BEV as the best deliverable answer at present.

Now if we could get fusion to work…

[Mikehig]

hidetheelephants said:

Evanivitch said:

GT9 said:

And so it begins...

https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/south-ko...

Despite this: "the country’s plans suffered a setback in May 2019 when a hydrogen storage tank exploded at a government research project in the city of Gangneung, killing two people and injuring six, while destroying a complex about half the size of a football pitch."

I'm just relieved the UK is not being forced into a corner to use hydrogen for everything under the sun, as we are seeing for Japan and South Korea.

Unfortunately something even bigger will eventually happen. A bit like Liam Neeson, it will never stop trying to kill you and has a 'unique set of skills' with which to do it.

Japan has a huge shortage of domestic energy resources and a lack of friendly neighbours! So they have to import energy, and that's going to be hydrogen in some form or another!

They could switch their mothballed nukes back on. Probably a good idea to build some new ones too.

They are doing exactly that.

[Mikehig]

GT9 said:

Oil companies are reading this thread, who knew.

Just a few days after discussing that hydrogen and punters are not good a mix, Shell have decided to permanently close all remaining light-duty H2 filling stations in California.

I wonder if I should ask for a pay rise from big lithium....

Big L could do with a boost - the price of Lithium is down 80% from its recent peaks. Nickel is down 60% and Cobalt 40%. Fear of over-supply, apparently.

[sjg]

TheDeuce said:

Given the closure rate of hydrogen filling stations around the world, there must be groups of very angry and vocal car owners that are left with something basically worthless that they can't even make use of themselves.

I'm amazed we don't hear more from such people - perhaps they're simply too embarrassed to speak up..

In California, Toyota are renting cars from Avis for Mirai owners to use because hydrogen supply is so dire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_-RJ9a9TGI

[Evanivitch]

Mikehig said:

Big L could do with a boost - the price of Lithium is down 80% from its recent peaks. Nickel is down 60% and Cobalt 40%. Fear of over-supply, apparently.

And recognition that reducing dependencies on these materials is better for everyone. So we've seen low cobalt and no cobalt batteries. Lots of promise of solid state batteries between now and 2030 (with some semi solid state already on market).

[james6546]

I got sent this by my wife, reasonably interesting

https://myelectricsparks.com/bmw-hydrogen-engines/

[otolith]

james6546 said:

I got sent this by my wife, reasonably interesting

https://myelectricsparks.com/bmw-hydrogen-engines/

Why is he talking about "engines" when the article is clearly about hydrogen fuel cell electric cars?

[Evanivitch]

james6546 said:

I got sent this by my wife, reasonably interesting

https://myelectricsparks.com/bmw-hydrogen-engines/

What have they solved?

The price? The infrastructure? The limited certification life of the tank? The fundamental need to be an EV (battery, motors) in the first place..

[GT9]

TheDeuce said:

And people don't like to say that, so silence will remain

I have no idea why but when I think of hydrogen car owners losing their voice it reminds me of this sketch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0dybAaZWuI

[james6546]

Evanivitch said:

james6546 said:

I got sent this by my wife, reasonably interesting

https://myelectricsparks.com/bmw-hydrogen-engines/

What have they solved?

The price? The infrastructure? The limited certification life of the tank? The fundamental need to be an EV (battery, motors) in the first place..

She did tell me, but I wasn’t listening apparently

It’s a pretty bad article, but interesting that BMW still think it’s worth pursuing

[GT9]

james6546 said:

She did tell me, but I wasn’t listening apparently

It’s a pretty bad article, but interesting that BMW still think it’s worth pursuing

I'd be asking her where she thinks hydrogen actually comes from.

[james6546]

GT9 said:

james6546 said:

She did tell me, but I wasn’t listening apparently

It’s a pretty bad article, but interesting that BMW still think it’s worth pursuing

I'd be asking her where she thinks hydrogen actually comes from.

She works for a company who make lubricants and fluids for the major manufacturers so does have some more inside information than the regular person. It sounds like hydrogen might be getting some more attention going forwards.