Would UK be ready for 2030 new petrol car ban?
Discussion
people on this thread may not have realised that this is more international than boris
Ireland introduced 2030 legislation last year, Germany are working through a 2030 decision in parliament, Holland are going for 2030, Belgium between 2025 and 2030 depending on region
It’s a general direction of the industry rather than all boris’ own work
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_...
Ireland introduced 2030 legislation last year, Germany are working through a 2030 decision in parliament, Holland are going for 2030, Belgium between 2025 and 2030 depending on region
It’s a general direction of the industry rather than all boris’ own work
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_...
Uncle boshy said:
people on this thread may not have realised that this is more international than boris
The UK's commitments are perhaps slightly more aggressive than average, but they're by no means unique. I suspect we'll also see, in one form or another, a ban on the type approval of new ICE vehicles in the EU in the same sort of time-frame as well, although that wouldn't stop manufacturers from continuing to see existing models. It probably wont be called a ban, just a new set of emissions restrictions which are intentionally so difficult to meet that manufacturers given up, but it will have the same effect as one.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 22 November 18:53
dgswk said:
I'm with Toaster Pilot. Future will be here sooner than you think and it will be fine. #BatteryHeads #RangeMatters
I like the new website name!
Things indeed will change, I have always previously been a petrolhead, usually enjoying various over-engined barges or my Ford Capri. Once I'd educated myself about electric and hybrid I went and spent lots of money on a PHEV ( I do a mix of very long journeys and urban stuff) it's not been a money saving exercise but not having a machine going "dag dag" up front all the time is so nice, my daily 26mile round trip commute costs 75p, longer journeys are 60mpg when I switch. 50% of my miles are pure EV. The future is here, quite why you'd buy ANYTHING new now without an electric motor in baffles me. If you want an old cheap shed then that's completely different. Daily commutes and trips to the shops are often stop/start/slow and boring, EVs are appropriate for that kind of driving and they smell less.
My next purchase will be a full BEV, just waiting for somebody to bring out an estate, MG5 I have considered but it's sooo ugly, although once the model Y arrives then I may bite. I will also run an ICE shed/barge alongside it for as long as you can get them, and that may be a very long time.
CABC said:
I see similarities. A lot of the EV bits are in place ahead of mainstream acceptance. Like with the internet it's more about infrastructure build up and getting all the necessary components up to speed. we're past the tipping point but a long way from mainstream. 2030 will happen because industry and market will there by then, not because of any sales ban.
As I've mentioned in another thread, in the Netherlands when a street is worked on for whatever reason (new surface/new pavement/sewer), they try to pre-wire it for charging stations.
So that when the time comes, it's just installing a simple charger.
That's why something like "by 2030" is a good incentive, it helps people to think ahead and do this gradually, instead of all of the sudden saying: we need a plug at every parking space @500 quid each.
georgezippy said:
I like the new website name!
Things indeed will change, I have always previously been a petrolhead, usually enjoying various over-engined barges or my Ford Capri. Once I'd educated myself about electric and hybrid I went and spent lots of money on a PHEV ( I do a mix of very long journeys and urban stuff) it's not been a money saving exercise but not having a machine going "dag dag" up front all the time is so nice, my daily 26mile round trip commute costs 75p, longer journeys are 60mpg when I switch. 50% of my miles are pure EV. The future is here, quite why you'd buy ANYTHING new now without an electric motor in baffles me. If you want an old cheap shed then that's completely different. Daily commutes and trips to the shops are often stop/start/slow and boring, EVs are appropriate for that kind of driving and they smell less.
My next purchase will be a full BEV, just waiting for somebody to bring out an estate, MG5 I have considered but it's sooo ugly, although once the model Y arrives then I may bite. I will also run an ICE shed/barge alongside it for as long as you can get them, and that may be a very long time.
I also own a TVR wedge with a 3.9 litre V8. This is where my fun comes from. If I can continue like this for the next 20 years or so I am totally fine with that.
ZesPak said:
That's why something like "by 2030" is a good incentive, it helps people to think ahead and do this gradually, instead of all of the sudden saying: we need a plug at every parking space @500 quid each.
The problem there being that it's easy for the government to promise now to ban petrol cars by 2030 but they seem largely unwilling to spend any money to make it happen; or even to legislate to get private industry to pay to make it happen. Uncle boshy said:
people on this thread may not have realised that this is more international than boris
Ireland introduced 2030 legislation last year, Germany are working through a 2030 decision in parliament, Holland are going for 2030, Belgium between 2025 and 2030 depending on region
It’s a general direction of the industry rather than all boris’ own work
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_...
Add to this list the USA, where similar legislation is making it's way through government.Ireland introduced 2030 legislation last year, Germany are working through a 2030 decision in parliament, Holland are going for 2030, Belgium between 2025 and 2030 depending on region
It’s a general direction of the industry rather than all boris’ own work
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_...
https://www.billtrack50.com/BillDetail/1245579
I don't know if this has been posted, but I missed it the first time:
IS THERE ENOUGH JUICE? Chris Harris talks EVs with Graeme Cooper from the National Grid | Top Gear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE57tChPQM&ab...
Glad that CH does this, as he's made some uninformed claims in the past. Asking the right questions though.
IS THERE ENOUGH JUICE? Chris Harris talks EVs with Graeme Cooper from the National Grid | Top Gear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE57tChPQM&ab...
Glad that CH does this, as he's made some uninformed claims in the past. Asking the right questions though.
There’s an awful long way to go before EVs are mass market viable.
In another thread, I’ve just tried to buy one for my mother. She’s a good use case: low mileage, elderly, really wants an automatic, wants a small car. She can charge at home, all very easy.
Until you start looking at these properly. The Renault Zoe was the first choice - it’s small and car like, and it comes with a small battery that will do her fine. Of course with the Zoe you have the minefield of battery leasing, which will cost her more than the petrol she uses every month. Then you get what seems to be a bit of an issue with electric cars - they seem to be reliable, but when it goes Pete Tong it heads into write off territory rather quickly. £1000 for a broken charging socket? Thus, you need a warranty. Can’t get a warranty on a car over 4 years old from Renault. So she’s boxed in between getting a ropey old car with a leased battery and no warranty, and spending lots of money on a newish car with a warranty.
She’s got a Yaris now. I couldn’t make an EV work in any financial sense, even if it worked for her technically.
I suspect the people on BIK driven leases are going to be fine. The (large) chunk of the country that drive towards the shed end of the market are going to be mighty upset with this. There’s much greater manufacturer lock in, and vastly more money required. These people have votes and will get angry when presented with the “you’re poor so you’re on public transport from now on”.
In another thread, I’ve just tried to buy one for my mother. She’s a good use case: low mileage, elderly, really wants an automatic, wants a small car. She can charge at home, all very easy.
Until you start looking at these properly. The Renault Zoe was the first choice - it’s small and car like, and it comes with a small battery that will do her fine. Of course with the Zoe you have the minefield of battery leasing, which will cost her more than the petrol she uses every month. Then you get what seems to be a bit of an issue with electric cars - they seem to be reliable, but when it goes Pete Tong it heads into write off territory rather quickly. £1000 for a broken charging socket? Thus, you need a warranty. Can’t get a warranty on a car over 4 years old from Renault. So she’s boxed in between getting a ropey old car with a leased battery and no warranty, and spending lots of money on a newish car with a warranty.
She’s got a Yaris now. I couldn’t make an EV work in any financial sense, even if it worked for her technically.
I suspect the people on BIK driven leases are going to be fine. The (large) chunk of the country that drive towards the shed end of the market are going to be mighty upset with this. There’s much greater manufacturer lock in, and vastly more money required. These people have votes and will get angry when presented with the “you’re poor so you’re on public transport from now on”.
rxe said:
There’s an awful long way to go before EVs are mass market viable. ...
I couldn’t make an EV work in any financial sense, even if it worked for her technically.
Prices need to come down and viable EV's have come a long way in the past 5 years but still a bit of way to go.I couldn’t make an EV work in any financial sense, even if it worked for her technically.
Hardly insurmountable.
rxe said:
I suspect the people on BIK driven leases are going to be fine. The (large) chunk of the country that drive towards the shed end of the market are going to be mighty upset with this. There’s much greater manufacturer lock in, and vastly more money required. These people have votes and will get angry when presented with the “you’re poor so you’re on public transport from now on”.
They will have to wait for EV sheds?What is this "much greater manufacturer lock in"? Independent repair shops are not ready yet. Hell, most dealers that sell them aren't even ready yet. Just a matter of time though.
As for the more money required, see above.
Yes - they'll come out with a non oil based fuel that can work in older engines before then, or be partially oil based but classified as something other than petrol or diesel.
or
Yes - they'll just push the deadline back - just like Pornhub and it's registration, which is much more serious pressing issue!
or
Yes - they'll just push the deadline back - just like Pornhub and it's registration, which is much more serious pressing issue!
I don't change cars often. I don't generally buy brand new cars (18 years since I last did that). I run a big, well depreciated barge of an estate for practical transport of dogs, family, fishing gear, etc. Just replaced that slot with a ten year old E-class. I have an Elise I will probably keep forever, and a Z4M I probably ought to let go of.
I would be interested in a well depreciated large, practical electric car. Something like a Model X or an Enyaq or an I-PACE or whatever, except that I want an estate. So those aren't out yet, and I will probably want five or ten years of depreciation on it.
I might also be interested in a proper electric sports car with three or four years of depreciation on it. Again, it doesn't exist yet.
It's early days. These niches will be filled, and then they will depreciate, and then I will buy them.
I would be interested in a well depreciated large, practical electric car. Something like a Model X or an Enyaq or an I-PACE or whatever, except that I want an estate. So those aren't out yet, and I will probably want five or ten years of depreciation on it.
I might also be interested in a proper electric sports car with three or four years of depreciation on it. Again, it doesn't exist yet.
It's early days. These niches will be filled, and then they will depreciate, and then I will buy them.
ElectricSoup said:
A second hand Leaf would have been the answer to the above. The probability of an expensive repair being needed to a very low mileage car is very, very low.
Too big. Considered it. Considered the Kia Soul as well. Too ugly. There seemed to be a lot of horror stories on SpeakEV about reliability of low mileage cars.
There may be a proper non-dealer repair market that grows up, but the manufacturers are doing their best to prevent it. You can’t even order the Tesla parts I understand. Will aftermarket outfits start making power controllers and the like - possibly. All of the common bits, brakes and stuff will be fine - that’s easy. Will it be there at any scale in a decade - I don’t think so, and that will be one of the changes that needs to happen.
rxe said:
Too big. Considered it. Considered the Kia Soul as well. Too ugly.
There seemed to be a lot of horror stories on SpeakEV about reliability of low mileage cars.
There may be a proper non-dealer repair market that grows up, but the manufacturers are doing their best to prevent it. You can’t even order the Tesla parts I understand. Will aftermarket outfits start making power controllers and the like - possibly. All of the common bits, brakes and stuff will be fine - that’s easy. Will it be there at any scale in a decade - I don’t think so, and that will be one of the changes that needs to happen.
There are a lot of 2017 Chevy Bolt's showing up here. I just figure the 3 year lease is over and they are returns.There seemed to be a lot of horror stories on SpeakEV about reliability of low mileage cars.
There may be a proper non-dealer repair market that grows up, but the manufacturers are doing their best to prevent it. You can’t even order the Tesla parts I understand. Will aftermarket outfits start making power controllers and the like - possibly. All of the common bits, brakes and stuff will be fine - that’s easy. Will it be there at any scale in a decade - I don’t think so, and that will be one of the changes that needs to happen.
Low mileage and still plenty of warranty left on the battery pack.
https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev/2017/
otolith said:
I would be interested in a well depreciated large, practical electric car. Something like a Model X or an Enyaq or an I-PACE or whatever, except that I want an estate. So those aren't out yet, and I will probably want five or ten years of depreciation on it.
Tbh I had about 10 large estates in a row, so was hesitant to switch to the Model S.It has more boot space than just about every estate on the market, even the E-class. It can fit stuff I wouldn't even have tried with the XF.
In terms of boot, it's properly cavernous.
ZesPak said:
Tbh I had about 10 large estates in a row, so was hesitant to switch to the Model S.
It has more boot space than just about every estate on the market, even the E-class. It can fit stuff I wouldn't even have tried with the XF.
In terms of boot, it's properly cavernous.
I think the dog would probably object.It has more boot space than just about every estate on the market, even the E-class. It can fit stuff I wouldn't even have tried with the XF.
In terms of boot, it's properly cavernous.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff