Would UK be ready for 2030 new petrol car ban?

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You said people who insist on sticking with ICE.

It's likely that they're not insisting on anything but find themselves in a situation where they cannot go full BEV.

Taxation has to be appropriate and it would only be appropriate to tax the EV driver for the EV infrastructure. EV drivers won't be getting this tax break forever. It'd make sense to do that wouldn't it?

[dgswk]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

But life ain't like that, tax is used to dissuade, to punish, in this case the breaks will go to EV whilst old school gets taxed. Not fair, but how it is....

Edited to add: And repeat when (if ever, never) they get Hydrogen, they'll tax EV accordingly.

[Darumvej]

kambites said:

Overnight charging without off-street parking is one (perhaps the only) problem which will have to be solved in the very near future to make it plausible and whilst it wont be a cheap problem to solve, it wont be a particularly technologically difficult one.

Edited by kambites on Saturday 14th November 19:31

This. How will multi habituated properties manage to charge their vehicles, many properties don't even have outside parking, if you live on a busy street chances are you can't even park near to your residence.

I doubt there will be multiple charging stations on every street and avenue in the country. Maybe extension cables from upstairs and downstairs windows zig zagged down the pavements.

[jjwilde]

Darumvej said:

This. How will multi habituated properties manage to charge their vehicles, many properties don't even have outside parking, if you live on a busy street chances are you can't even park near to your residence.

I doubt there will be multiple charging stations on every street and avenue in the country. Maybe extension cables from upstairs and downstairs windows zig zagged down the pavements.

You'll go and charge it at a garage for 15-20mins once a week just like you can right now?

[anonymous-user]

dgswk said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

But life ain't like that, tax is used to dissuade, to punish, in this case the breaks will go to EV whilst old school gets taxed. Not fair, but how it is....

Edited to add: And repeat when (if ever, never) they get Hydrogen, they'll tax EV accordingly.

Tax is to generate revenue. Breaks are to pursuade.
EV will not remain a tax break any longer than it needs to!
No government is going to punish those that likely have the least options because of low income, which is who'll be last to transition, and no government is going to miss revenue opportunity when ownership figures reach a certain level.
The same will eventually happen to off-peak energy prices.

[Darumvej]

jjwilde said:

Darumvej said:

This. How will multi habituated properties manage to charge their vehicles, many properties don't even have outside parking, if you live on a busy street chances are you can't even park near to your residence.

I doubt there will be multiple charging stations on every street and avenue in the country. Maybe extension cables from upstairs and downstairs windows zig zagged down the pavements.

You'll go and charge it at a garage for 15-20mins once a week just like you can right now?

Once a week, how many miles do you do in a week?

[Bobtherallyfan]

dgswk said:

But life ain't like that, tax is used to dissuade, to punish, in this case the breaks will go to EV whilst old school gets taxed. Not fair, but how it is....

Edited to add: And repeat when (if ever, never) they get Hydrogen, they'll tax EV accordingly.

If the Govt likes to tax ‘old school’ ICE cars, then how come they don’t charge for 25 yr old cars or even insist on MOTs. EV drivers will have to fork out in the future as ICE revenues fall.

[wisbech]

Darumvej said:

jjwilde said:

Darumvej said:

This. How will multi habituated properties manage to charge their vehicles, many properties don't even have outside parking, if you live on a busy street chances are you can't even park near to your residence.

I doubt there will be multiple charging stations on every street and avenue in the country. Maybe extension cables from upstairs and downstairs windows zig zagged down the pavements.

You'll go and charge it at a garage for 15-20mins once a week just like you can right now?

Once a week, how many miles do you do in a week?

Then you stick to a hybrid/ ICE, or change lifestyle (get a job closer to home, get a job that allows you to charge at work, etc). By definition, the majority of places without off street parking are urban or in the centre of towns, so a car trip shouldn’t be needed to buy milk.

[xx99xx]

jjwilde said:

Darumvej said:

This. How will multi habituated properties manage to charge their vehicles, many properties don't even have outside parking, if you live on a busy street chances are you can't even park near to your residence.

I doubt there will be multiple charging stations on every street and avenue in the country. Maybe extension cables from upstairs and downstairs windows zig zagged down the pavements.

You'll go and charge it at a garage for 15-20mins once a week just like you can right now?

Or there'll be charge points at every lamp post, as has already been trialed in places. Or wireless charging built into the road. But yes, more than likely you'll visit a rapid charger, like you would do a petrol station, whenever you needed to top up. If that turns out to be every day then that's the new normal that we'd get used to.

[dgswk]

Bobtherallyfan said:

If the Govt likes to tax ‘old school’ ICE cars, then how come they don’t charge for 25 yr old cars or even insist on MOTs. EV drivers will have to fork out in the future as ICE revenues fall.

Because classics are a minority, almost irrelevant in the big picture. But I absolutely agree, per mile charging will kick in once there’s no going back, that tech has been with us for a while. Pay for 12, 15 or 25k miles upfront and it’ll be adjusted accordingly.

They just can’t do it right now until the EV purchase costs fall relative to income etc etc

[dgswk]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Agreed, that’s its primary mainstream purpose, but it is also a very useful and powerful tool to influence and kickstart change. Why is that 5.0 SVR Rangey or X5 now £500 plus a year for road tax? £500x say 20,000 cars makes sod all difference in Sunak’s pocket. It’s about stopping every man and his dog buying one, a 10 year old one, and slowly pricing them off the road. Otherwise it would be £30 to cover the admin charge.

[Richard-D]

dgswk said:

Agreed, that’s its primary mainstream purpose, but it is also a very useful and powerful tool to influence and kickstart change. Why is that 5.0 SVR Rangey or X5 now £500 plus a year for road tax? £500x say 20,000 cars makes sod all difference in Sunak’s pocket. It’s about stopping every man and his dog buying one, a 10 year old one, and slowly pricing them off the road. Otherwise it would be £30 to cover the admin charge.

Those of us that are practical people and actually get involved in life are a bit concerned about what this means for us. These rules are decided by people who commute on a train or by taxi and have little involvement in anything outside of magnolia corridors and office desks.

Those people don't need to drag a fallen tree or trailer full of wood across a field or off a road after a storm. They probably don't volunteer to deliver groceries to elderly people in the winter when they're stuck in remote houses. Or at the minute do the same for 'vulnerable people' isolating at houses down roads that are little more than dirt tracks. They're unlikely to need to tow their race car trailer out of a boggy field after it's rained at Harewood etc. etc.

The problem for those of us that do these things is that an i3 doesn't manage the above tasks quite as effectively as a 10 year old, 2.5 tonne S(not really)UV. Something electric that does will probably be made at some point but it's going to be shockingly expensive.

I don't do any of that crap either of course but someone does any they're stuffed.

[anonymous-user]

dgswk said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Agreed, that’s its primary mainstream purpose, but it is also a very useful and powerful tool to influence and kickstart change. Why is that 5.0 SVR Rangey or X5 now £500 plus a year for road tax? £500x say 20,000 cars makes sod all difference in Sunak’s pocket. It’s about stopping every man and his dog buying one, a 10 year old one, and slowly pricing them off the road. Otherwise it would be £30 to cover the admin charge.

The higher rates road taxes are aimed at the people most able to afford them. That's why there's the relatively large first year tax on new cars over a certain price (£40k?).
It's not to punish them, it's just to direct the taxes in a way that they can be maximised without hammering everyone.

The EV road tax breaks will end at some point to help pay for the new infrastructure they need.

[SWoll]

For the posters who have concerns around current BEV range and the affect it would have on their daily lives due to having to stop and charge regularly I'd be interested in knowing what it is that you are actually doing at these various locations?

Genuine question as appreciate there are jobs where being there in person is absolutely essential, but travelling all over the country just so you can sit in face to face meetings shouldn't be one of them and I'm sure will be phased out more and more over the next decade as it has been significantly in the past 6-12 months in many industries?

[anonymous-user]

Construction, manufacturing, networking, switchgear, sales, antiques buying, hospitality, supermarket management, for example.
There's bloody loads!
When people are dealing with actual stuff that's being made, installed, purchased or retailed you've got to actually go and see it being made, installed or retailed.
You can't zoom it.
If your job involves being sat behind a desk with a computer ALL of the time, or sat on a till at the same supermarket every day, then you're OK.

[CABC]

we need to stop giving incentives for hybrids with no credible battery range lugging 2 drivetrains around and only achieving 40mpg.
BEV only or with REX. Wh/mi better than 250, tapering down over the years.
We don't need to force cars off the road either, that's far from green, especially for low annual mileage.

[SWoll]

I was looking for specific examples fro posters rather than generic industries. Antique buying?

I ask as over the past 6-12 months have been inundated with projects implementing remote working and teleconferencing solutions for customers across multiple sectors and had many conversations on the topic. Based on this I'd suggest the number of road warriors is reducing significantly as businesses realise that hours of daily travelling time and huge business fuel expenses are something they are able to remove/reduce with a little investment and a change in approach.

[aestetix1]

Darumvej said:

I doubt there will be multiple charging stations on every street and avenue in the country. Maybe extension cables from upstairs and downstairs windows zig zagged down the pavements.

That's what some European countries have done. Just do whole roads at a time, charging points all the way along. Contactless card controlled.

[markymarkthree]

Bobtherallyfan said:

If the Govt likes to tax ‘old school’ ICE cars, then how come they don’t charge for 25 yr old cars or even insist on MOTs. EV drivers will have to fork out in the future as ICE revenues fall.

What 25 yr old cars don't need tax or MOT ?

[anonymous-user]

Swoll, sometimes you have to physically see the people you are working with and the things they are creating. It's as simple as that. No amount of remote conferencing can bridge that gap.

Think of the processes involved in bringing a new luxury hotel to fruition. The construction isn't done over the internet, the construction workers don't send themselves over the internet to site. Specialist suppliers for the construction and fitout (dry lining, masonry, steelwork, flooring, soft furnishings, specialist finishes, joinery, art and sculpture, AV, electrics, plumbing, fenestration, pool, gym, spa, HVAC) are drafted in from around the country and from further afield. All these specialist suppliers have those that are planning the work, those that are doing the site work and those that manage, inspect and sign off the work.
Now think of yourself working for one of those suppliers. You might have a static HQ (that you've got to spend some time at) but you also have the project sites dotted around the country that you also have to visit.
Is that hard to comprehend?