So, EV performance cars are coming soon, right?
Discussion
Frimley111R said:
Autocar took some modern EVs on a track day. All were basically s
te and the more powerful ones destroyed tyres in no time. The sheer weight of them is a huge challenge for suspension joints, brakes and tyres.
Not necessarily representative of acceptable driving on the public road, however. As you say, physics dictates at the outer edges of the performance envelopes, but that's not what road use is. It would have been interesting to see the same vehicles in a daily scenario. (I'm not saying the outcome would have been different in terms of "fun" and engagement, just that I'd be interested to know the results te and the more powerful ones destroyed tyres in no time. The sheer weight of them is a huge challenge for suspension joints, brakes and tyres. 
)All EVs are performance cars. My Leaf is 80kW my Monaro 260kW.
The Leaf is 80kW at any speed above about 30 mph. The Monaro only 260kW if at peak power revs in each gear. In 3rd gear it's doing 2000 rpm at 30mph the gear you might choose at this speed. Approx 1/3 max revs and so approx 1/3 max power - therefore the same as the Leaf.
The Leaf is annoying good then. So with many EVs with 300kW they are going to be awesome...
The Leaf is 80kW at any speed above about 30 mph. The Monaro only 260kW if at peak power revs in each gear. In 3rd gear it's doing 2000 rpm at 30mph the gear you might choose at this speed. Approx 1/3 max revs and so approx 1/3 max power - therefore the same as the Leaf.
The Leaf is annoying good then. So with many EVs with 300kW they are going to be awesome...
They are coming!
Been watching the Hummer EV test drives and it’s amazing what the engineers and designers can do with EV power trains. Ok, so it’s as far away from a sports car that you can get, but listening to the engineers talk about how they can shift the power, direct power for grip and traction and build in a certain amount of slip is amazing. It must be a real play ground for the engineers at the moment.
It gives me confidence that they will turn their attention to sports cars at some point. When they do, I expect to see similar dynamics and control, just without the noise. It’s certainly an interesting time in vehicle dynamics!!!
Bring it on I say. Ok, so they aren’t going to replace a very good sports car, but they options are there. Just need to make the economics work. That’s the big challenge; small market of picky buyers that have high brand loyalty - that’s going to be a challenge to make money.
Been watching the Hummer EV test drives and it’s amazing what the engineers and designers can do with EV power trains. Ok, so it’s as far away from a sports car that you can get, but listening to the engineers talk about how they can shift the power, direct power for grip and traction and build in a certain amount of slip is amazing. It must be a real play ground for the engineers at the moment.
It gives me confidence that they will turn their attention to sports cars at some point. When they do, I expect to see similar dynamics and control, just without the noise. It’s certainly an interesting time in vehicle dynamics!!!
Bring it on I say. Ok, so they aren’t going to replace a very good sports car, but they options are there. Just need to make the economics work. That’s the big challenge; small market of picky buyers that have high brand loyalty - that’s going to be a challenge to make money.
RobDickinson said:
Whats sad is that there are companies out there that can convert an mx5 and give it decent range and more power and no more weight yet theres nothing on the market like that, it honestly cant be that hard..?
I think a lot of it is around the demand and economics of it. EVwest does a roaring trade in converting all sorts of things to EV, especially classics. But it gets super expensive really quickly. It’s like everything else of course, but when you get carried away with power and range, suddenly you are into double or triple the cost of the donor vehicle (except 911’s of course) and you have to really want one!
I did notice that there is a British company doing EV kits for classic 911’s now. Some Tesla parts and some bespoke bits, but supposed to cost $40k as a starter. It’s impressive and they have done a lot of engineering to make it a bolt in swap, but when a custom build flat 6 with a bit more power is $20k, it’s tough to justify for many.
But it should get cheaper though. More EV’s on the road means more written off ones that can be salvaged. Has to bring the prices down at some point!
51mes said:
Ok bear with me here...
Given that one of the reasons an EV is considered dull is that you effectively steer and use one pedal for faster/slower.
The car has both electronic throttle and also brake by wire, it also has significant amounts of control and a wide performance envelope, it could in
theory be mapped to emulate other cars....
With that in mind do you think there is a market for a bas**rd love child between a Tesla and a fantec driving wheel/pedal set.
Mount a gearstick & clutch pedal or flappy paddles in the car and have a mode where the car drives (and makes noises) as if it was taking inputs from the gearstick/paddles, the car could behave normally as an EV at all other times - the extra controls could even be used to control features such as regen for example. It becomes the performance driver pack as a factory option on your EV...
It's not beyond the whit of man to simulate any car you want digitally as long as the nut behind the wheel gets the right sets of inputs, drive a supercar for the weekend - buy/rent the DLC pack that configures the dial set, pedal/wheel resistances, active suspension and gear feel for a <insert your choice here>.
The question is would the emulation work and this "assisted reality" would it be enough for joe public petrolhead?
Possible yes, sufficient market to justify the investment, probably not.Given that one of the reasons an EV is considered dull is that you effectively steer and use one pedal for faster/slower.
The car has both electronic throttle and also brake by wire, it also has significant amounts of control and a wide performance envelope, it could in
theory be mapped to emulate other cars....
With that in mind do you think there is a market for a bas**rd love child between a Tesla and a fantec driving wheel/pedal set.
Mount a gearstick & clutch pedal or flappy paddles in the car and have a mode where the car drives (and makes noises) as if it was taking inputs from the gearstick/paddles, the car could behave normally as an EV at all other times - the extra controls could even be used to control features such as regen for example. It becomes the performance driver pack as a factory option on your EV...
It's not beyond the whit of man to simulate any car you want digitally as long as the nut behind the wheel gets the right sets of inputs, drive a supercar for the weekend - buy/rent the DLC pack that configures the dial set, pedal/wheel resistances, active suspension and gear feel for a <insert your choice here>.
The question is would the emulation work and this "assisted reality" would it be enough for joe public petrolhead?
re33 said:
GT911 said:
georgeyboy12345 said:
Whilst acceleration of EV’s is good, handling still leaves a lot to be desired. This is entirely caused by their high kerbweights. Whilst they do typically handle well for heavy cars, it’s one of the hurdles they need to overcome if they are to better petrol powered cars in the handling stakes, especially on track. Whether manufacturers are bothered about this is another thing.
Audi RS e-tron GT review from Top Gear:....The ride, even on 21-inch wheels, is magically supple, the grip is otherworldly (honestly, the speed you can carry around a roundabout is naughty)....
....the RS e-tron GT feels as fast as you could ever comfortably want to go in a road car. Anymore and you just start to feel sick....
...That could and would get boring if Audi didn’t have its handling sorted, but it does. The body control on this 2.3-tonne car is such that it feels about 400kg lighter than it actually is. Agile and alert, when physics dictate it should be heaving around on its suspension....
Doesn't read like 'leaves a lot to be desired' to me.
Ripping up the tarmac. Literally
Of course the Model S Plaid is probably not going to set the world on fire in terms of handling and feedback but I can’t imagine it’s a snooze fest. 2 seconds to 60 and a 9 second 1/4 mile suggest that it’s probably physically uncomfortable to bury the throttle. Sure, it’s a one trick pony but I bet it makes you laugh out loud every time.
832ark said:
Of course the Model S Plaid is probably not going to set the world on fire in terms of handling and feedback but I can’t imagine it’s a snooze fest. 2 seconds to 60 and a 9 second 1/4 mile suggest that it’s probably physically uncomfortable to bury the throttle. Sure, it’s a one trick pony but I bet it makes you laugh out loud every time.
The TMS hides it's weight very well for two reasons:- insane, effortless pick up and power
- very low CoG makes it corner and brake better than it has any right to
At this timestamp for example, it outbrakes an AMG GT 4, BMW M5 and a Porsche Panamera Turbo S
https://youtu.be/8I-6_H0haAw?t=482
Granted, all heavy 4 door "family" cars, but not boring family sedans and AFAIK all lighter than the TMS.
The one thing the TMS fails on track is feel when going 10/10, but also brake fade. It IS a heavy car and the weight distribution makes the brakes work really hard. The brakes in an EV in general are used very little.
If you were to track it for some reason, I recon it NEEDS ceramics.
Edited by ZesPak on Monday 1st November 18:20
https://unpluggedperformance.com/product/model-s-p...
$10k for ceramics, not bad but I'm guessing it'll eat them quickly.
Track mode should help will increase regen and cooling
$10k for ceramics, not bad but I'm guessing it'll eat them quickly.
Track mode should help will increase regen and cooling
ZesPak said:
If you were to track it for some reason, I recon it NEEDS ceramics.
Without a doubt. There was some reports of a Plaid getting trashed in Nevada on track because of massive speed and catastrophic brake fade! It really depends on your expectations on these things though. I knew someone who did a track day in an old 6.75 Bentley - terrible car on track, but set your expectations right and fun can be had, and dont expect much from the brakes! But thats the weird thing with the Plaid - what it does, it does really well. Fast acceleration, decent ride and a compelling package. But its not a track tuned special and you really shouldnt be pushing the thing on track. I am sure its fun at 7/10ths or a little higher, but to expect the highest levels of braking and steering precision is a little too much. Have fun, absolutely - but it has limits. This pursuit of the 0-60 times still seems strange to me. Its a headline, a meme in reality. I cant help thinking that a bit of focus away from that and into the range, ride and handling would have made it a better car. Then again, I am sure the product planners know their market and if this sells, fine.
NS66 said:
The problem is a standard EV car ie Ioniq 5, Ipace EV6 oven Kona and E Niro have amazing performance - certainly way more than supercars of the 90's.
HummE Nero 0-60 7.5s
1990 964 turbo 0-60 4.6s
1999 996 GT3 0-60 4.5s
Even the Ioniq 5 is given as around 5s
So not slow, but "way more than" is a bit rich.
Edited by Gary C on Monday 1st November 18:36
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