Rocketing electricity prices and EV Viability
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
Octopus will give me 30p per kwh and 7.5p per kwh for 4 hours overnight on their 'octopus go' tariff. You should be able to get that - although if not done so, you'll need a smart meter.
i believe that's the capped rate for existing customers, new customers would potentially be looking at 40p+Dave Hedgehog said:
i believe that's the capped rate for existing customers, new customers would potentially be looking at 40p+
The new customer rate in my area (Oxfordshire) right now is 7.5p night and 30.6p day ( I am on 5p/15p). So if I joined today my EV commute would cost a whopping £1.20 vs my diesel which which would be £8 per day. I don't think i will be giving up my EV yet.Dave Hedgehog said:
TheDeuce said:
Octopus will give me 30p per kwh and 7.5p per kwh for 4 hours overnight on their 'octopus go' tariff. You should be able to get that - although if not done so, you'll need a smart meter.
i believe that's the capped rate for existing customers, new customers would potentially be looking at 40p+Pixelpeep 135 said:
you can make your own electricity, which will be where it's at.
Not really. Few people own enough land or have the financial firepower to make that all that relevant. Even if you do have the land for solar or wind you're not ever going to be as efficient as centralised generation so the tax differential would have to be huge. We've had nearly two decades of door to door selling of solar to old people and it's quite clear this is not a threat to either utilities or the Treasury.
Besides, we have more and more road pricing on the cards in cities and it's likely to spread to roads such as motorways so whatever is lost by home brewing will be more than compensated for via movement taxation.
DonkeyApple said:
Pixelpeep 135 said:
you can make your own electricity, which will be where it's at.
Not really. Few people own enough land or have the financial firepower to make that all that relevant. Even if you do have the land for solar or wind you're not ever going to be as efficient as centralised generation so the tax differential would have to be huge. We've had nearly two decades of door to door selling of solar to old people and it's quite clear this is not a threat to either utilities or the Treasury.
Besides, we have more and more road pricing on the cards in cities and it's likely to spread to roads such as motorways so whatever is lost by home brewing will be more than compensated for via movement taxation.
for me, there is more to it than bottom line. unless you made it yourself, you are at the mercy of the politicians, economy, fat cats, d
head utility companies etc.You need 32sqm of roof/ground space for a 4kw system which can produce around 3800kw annually
Pixelpeep 135 said:
going from 13p to 40p+ per kWh in less than 6 months means that solar has almost overnight become a massively different proposition than it was.
for me, there is more to it than bottom line. unless you made it yourself, you are at the mercy of the politicians, economy, fat cats, dhead utility companies etc.
You need 32sqm of roof/ground space for a 4kw system which can produce around 3800kw annually
40p is a moment in time. Your capital investment into solar is a long term one. So, let's ask ourselves what has driven up short term electricity costs in the U.K.? Gas prices. So the next step is to ask two questions, how many years will gas prices remain high? (and why?) followed by what is the U.K.s long term plan for gas reliance as an energy source? for me, there is more to it than bottom line. unless you made it yourself, you are at the mercy of the politicians, economy, fat cats, d
head utility companies etc.You need 32sqm of roof/ground space for a 4kw system which can produce around 3800kw annually
Right now what we are seeing is toilet roll hoarders soiling themselves but if you're going to be spending thousands on home generation it pays to think prudently and consider realities.
Plus, one has to also consider that most households in the U.K. are predominantly gas fuelled, not electric so they have to factor in the cost of that switch away.
There is a very good reason for why solar sales lists are treated as valuable 'mug' lists by spanking sales companies. The average buyer simply hasn't done the maths but has also made it clear that they have funds and can be talked into buying stuff.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Thursday 20th January 12:27
PushedDover said:
More Energy company fkwittery.
Finally I have learnt, I need a S2 type smart meter for any decent off peak rates as you all know.
Because they cant get a signal out of the S1 I have they wont replace to a S2.
That signal problem looks likely to become a national one. Apparently most existing meters use the old 2/3G system to communicate which is due to be shut-down and re-assigned in the next 3 - 4 years.kwittery.Finally I have learnt, I need a S2 type smart meter for any decent off peak rates as you all know.
Because they cant get a signal out of the S1 I have they wont replace to a S2.
Edited by PushedDover on Wednesday 19th January 12:06
I read that by chance on a techie website: others with more knowledge may be able to confirm if it's correct and whether it's a major problem.
Mikehig said:
That signal problem looks likely to become a national one. Apparently most existing meters use the old 2/3G system to communicate which is due to be shut-down and re-assigned in the next 3 - 4 years.
I read that by chance on a techie website: others with more knowledge may be able to confirm if it's correct and whether it's a major problem.
Planned for 2033, so we have another 11 years.I read that by chance on a techie website: others with more knowledge may be able to confirm if it's correct and whether it's a major problem.
No ideas for a name said:
Mikehig said:
That signal problem looks likely to become a national one. Apparently most existing meters use the old 2/3G system to communicate which is due to be shut-down and re-assigned in the next 3 - 4 years.
I read that by chance on a techie website: others with more knowledge may be able to confirm if it's correct and whether it's a major problem.
Planned for 2033, so we have another 11 years.I read that by chance on a techie website: others with more knowledge may be able to confirm if it's correct and whether it's a major problem.
Pixelpeep 135 said:
going from 13p to 40p+ per kWh in less than 6 months means that solar has almost overnight become a massively different proposition than it was.
You need 32sqm of roof/ground space for a 4kw system which can produce around 3800kw annually
So at 40p per kWh that’s £1520 of electricity per year. How much will a 4kw solar system cost to install with a battery so you can actually make best use of it?You need 32sqm of roof/ground space for a 4kw system which can produce around 3800kw annually
CheesecakeRunner said:
So at 40p per kWh that’s £1520 of electricity per year. How much will a 4kw solar system cost to install with a battery so you can actually make best use of it?
I've been looking at this and you're looking at about 7k for the solar system and then with a Tesla powerwall coming in about 8.5k on top. It is still many years to recoup costs of having the solar installed.
somouk said:
I've been looking at this and you're looking at about 7k for the solar system and then with a Tesla powerwall coming in about 8.5k on top.
It is still many years to recoup costs of having the solar installed.
There are much cheaper solutions than a Tesla Powerwall.It is still many years to recoup costs of having the solar installed.
£4,695 for an 8.2kWh system
https://www.thesolarpeople.co.uk/tech-details/ener...
My 4.3kW solar about £3.5k on top of the above GivEnergy system
gmaz said:
There are much cheaper solutions than a Tesla Powerwall.
£4,695 for an 8.2kWh system
https://www.thesolarpeople.co.uk/tech-details/ener...
My 4.3kW solar about £3.5k on top of the above GivEnergy system
So about 5 years to break even then based on the numbers above.£4,695 for an 8.2kWh system
https://www.thesolarpeople.co.uk/tech-details/ener...
My 4.3kW solar about £3.5k on top of the above GivEnergy system
Don’t get me wrong, I’d do it myself if I had the spare cash, but let’s not kid ourselves that domestic solar installs are a quick or cheap answer to rising electricity prices.
CheesecakeRunner said:
Pixelpeep 135 said:
going from 13p to 40p+ per kWh in less than 6 months means that solar has almost overnight become a massively different proposition than it was.
You need 32sqm of roof/ground space for a 4kw system which can produce around 3800kw annually
So at 40p per kWh that’s £1520 of electricity per year. How much will a 4kw solar system cost to install with a battery so you can actually make best use of it?You need 32sqm of roof/ground space for a 4kw system which can produce around 3800kw annually
Panels and install £6k
10kW LG battery storage £5.5k
I'm sure they can be purchased cheaper wholesale but based on end user retail shmuck prices, you're looking at a ROI after 7.5 years, assuming electricity stays at 40p.
But you also get peace of mind, independence, less footprint and one step closer to saving the planet.
it's not just about saving money.
Pixelpeep 135 said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
Pixelpeep 135 said:
going from 13p to 40p+ per kWh in less than 6 months means that solar has almost overnight become a massively different proposition than it was.
You need 32sqm of roof/ground space for a 4kw system which can produce around 3800kw annually
So at 40p per kWh that’s £1520 of electricity per year. How much will a 4kw solar system cost to install with a battery so you can actually make best use of it?You need 32sqm of roof/ground space for a 4kw system which can produce around 3800kw annually
Panels and install £6k
10kW LG battery storage £5.5k
I'm sure they can be purchased cheaper wholesale but based on end user retail shmuck prices, you're looking at a ROI after 7.5 years, assuming electricity stays at 40p.
But you also get peace of mind, independence, less footprint and one step closer to saving the planet.
it's not just about saving money.
It's all fantasy man maths of old codgers who have been flogged a dream by Gary on the doorstep.
There is a reason why you see solar panels on the roofs of small properties and rarely on the those of high value properties and I'm afraid it's because the people in the larger houses tend to think Gary is a chancer on the make, do the real maths and realise it's a load of tripe.
Even worse, a load of these spanners are borrowing the money to install the stuff and no doubt at mug rates.
It's going to remain a while yet until quality solar and storage are remotely sensible ways to forward spend money and by that time even the 'eco' angle of buying a load of tat for the roof is going to be moot if the Grid manages to meet any of its renewable targets.
You're talking edge cases where it's actually viable and home generation really isn't a relevant issue re tax avoidance unfortunately. And anyone wanting to be eco can just use an eco tariff.
No ideas for a name said:
Mikehig said:
That signal problem looks likely to become a national one. Apparently most existing meters use the old 2/3G system to communicate which is due to be shut-down and re-assigned in the next 3 - 4 years.
I read that by chance on a techie website: others with more knowledge may be able to confirm if it's correct and whether it's a major problem.
Planned for 2033, so we have another 11 years.I read that by chance on a techie website: others with more knowledge may be able to confirm if it's correct and whether it's a major problem.
page3 said:
Wouldn’t it be more cost effective to forget solar and just get a big battery to fill up during the off-peak period?
Again, compare the many thousand pounds a battery will cost with the difference in price between peak and off peak. It’ll still take years to pay for itself. page3 said:
Wouldn’t it be more cost effective to forget solar and just get a big battery to fill up during the off-peak period?
Eventually the cost of batteries will fall to a point where that is viable but then that very reality will end the arbitrage. The arb only exists because we can't store electricity in any viable manner. Solve that problem and suddenly there's no cheap night time power. Mikehig said:
No ideas for a name said:
Mikehig said:
That signal problem looks likely to become a national one. Apparently most existing meters use the old 2/3G system to communicate which is due to be shut-down and re-assigned in the next 3 - 4 years.
I read that by chance on a techie website: others with more knowledge may be able to confirm if it's correct and whether it's a major problem.
Planned for 2033, so we have another 11 years.I read that by chance on a techie website: others with more knowledge may be able to confirm if it's correct and whether it's a major problem.
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